target="_blank" in netscape

[Peter Mount]

Hello

When I use target="_blank" in my forms it works well to create pop up window
in Internet Explorer but in Navigator it still creates a full sized window.
I don't want to use the window.open method in Javascript as I've heard that
pop up blockers will stop this from working. Is there a way to fix this
problem?

Thanks

Peter Mount
(e-mail address removed)

 

[rf]

Hello

When I use target="_blank" in my forms it works well to create pop up window
in Internet Explorer but in Navigator it still creates a full sized

window.

Please explain the difference between "pop up window" and "full sized
window" in this context.

target="_blank" should work identically with both browsers.

I don't want to use the window.open method in Javascript as I've heard that
pop up blockers will stop this from working. Is there a way to fix this
problem?

Pop-up blockers also block windows launched with target="_blank".

Cheers
Richard.

 

[Steve Pugh]

When I use target="_blank" in my forms it works well to create pop up window
in Internet Explorer but in Navigator it still creates a full sized window.

This depends on more than just the browser. It also depends on the
version of the browser, the operating system, and whether the original
window was maimised or not.

target="_blank" says to the browser "open a new window as you see
best".

I don't want to use the window.open method in Javascript as I've heard that
pop up blockers will stop this from working.

Some popup blockers also block target="_blank". Or cause it to open in
a new tab. Or cause it to open in the original window.

Is there a way to fix this problem?

Don't open a new window.

Steve

 

[Peter Mount]

Hello

Which pop up blockers do this?

Some popup blockers also block target="_blank". Or cause it to open in
a new tab. Or cause it to open in the original window.

Thanks

Peter Mount
(e-mail address removed)

 

[rf]

[post rearranged]

You put your gratuity and sig at the bottom. Why did you not put your
question below the quoted bit you were questioning?

Which pop up blockers do this?

Many third party popup blockers simply prohibit any new window from opening,
for any reason.

The one I use (popup-stopper from panicware) will not allow a new browser
instance (read new window) to launch, even if it me that is launching it. I
have to lean on the ctrl key to open a new browser instance.

 

[Whitecrest]

When I use target="_blank" in my forms it works well to create pop up window
in Internet Explorer but in Navigator it still creates a full sized window.
I don't want to use the window.open method in Javascript as I've heard that
pop up blockers will stop this from working. Is there a way to fix this
problem?

If you perceive a pop up to be a problem, then don't use a popup.

 

[Neal]

Many third party popup blockers simply prohibit any new window from
opening,
for any reason.

The one I use (popup-stopper from panicware) will not allow a new browser
instance (read new window) to launch, even if it me that is launching
it. I
have to lean on the ctrl key to open a new browser instance.

I've tried a number of pop-up blockers which work identically. Perhaps the
most popular, the Google toolbar, works this way as well.

 

[DU]

Hello

When I use target="_blank" in my forms it works well to create pop up window
in Internet Explorer but in Navigator it still creates a full sized window.

target="_blank" popup windows will be the same size of its parent/opener
and 15px to its right and 15px to its bottom: this is true for NS 7.x,
Mozilla-based browsers and MSIE 6 and the motivations behind this is
related to best usability reasons. You may have the impression that NS
creates a full sized window but resize the opener and then try again.

A target="_blank" popup window bring other problems, namely the
impossibility to reuse, to recycle such secondary window.

I don't want to use the window.open method in Javascript as I've heard that
pop up blockers will stop this from working.

Most popup blockers are set to prevent opening of unrequested,
unsollicited popups (during load time). Those who set popup blockers to
prevent or neutralize window.open() should still open the referenced
documents into the same window unless the web author resorted to
"javascript:" pseudo-protocol which is unfortunately quite common and
quite wrong.

DU

Is there a way to fix this

 

[derek giroulle]

I don't understand why you call this a popup (which imho. looks smaller
has no browser statu and menu bars and sits on top of your browser)
I find that it creates new windows in IE and new tabs in NN, Mozilla,
Opera and Netcaptor
The target="_blank" isn't blocked by the popup-blockers I use (have used
& tried)

A target="_blank" popup window bring other problems, namely the
impossibility to reuse, to recycle such secondary window.

If you want to reuse or gather information in that secordary window it's
a bad idea to make a popup ( imho. )
I only use it for 2 reasons :

1 - present an outside link and maintain my website available to the
user when he has finished with the 3rd party info i provide

2 - to preserve the navigational integrity i.e. I present a single
(multi)language document in any language context and I can't make out
what menu the user came to the document from and the document has its
own menu markup belonging to its basic language. rather than duplicating
the document I present it outside the primary screen when the user
notices the menu in another language he will close the screen and find
himself back at the point where he left off .
Soemtimes I even drop the menu section form the document and leave links
to the language mainpage or just a
"close_this_window_to_return_to_the_webpage" button

I find this naviagationally correct usage rather then hyacking other
people's content in a frame or trying to recover from this situation

 

[DU]

I don't understand why you call this a popup (which imho. looks smaller
has no browser statu and menu bars and sits on top of your browser)


I find that it creates new windows in IE and new tabs in NN, Mozilla,
Opera and Netcaptor


The target="_blank" isn't blocked by the popup-blockers I use (have used
& tried)


If you want to reuse or gather information in that secordary window it's
a bad idea to make a popup ( imho. )

Creating a new window takes considerable amount of time, cpu, RAM, code
execution in the browser software, memory management, toolbar creations,
window frame, document loading, all kinds of branch code, etc... If you
investigate closely the issue, you'll easily see that new secondary
window represents well above 5000 lines of code in modern browsers.

Now, all this is created on the user's system and thanks to the user's
system resources. My reasoning for recycling secondary windows is that
if I'm going to promote (didn't say impose here) this
new-separate-window scenario to the user, then I better have a good
justification to do so and best would be to reuse it eventually. I'm
trying to defend, justify my use of his resources here. And the best
approach is to notify the user in advance of all this, fair and square.

In some webpage design situations, recycling an already opened secondary
window is a responsible and defendable webpage design decision.

I only use it for 2 reasons :

1 - present an outside link and maintain my website available to the
user when he has finished with the 3rd party info i provide

Can you show an example of this?

2 - to preserve the navigational integrity i.e. I present a single
(multi)language document in any language context and I can't make out
what menu the user came to the document from and the document has its
own menu markup belonging to its basic language. rather than duplicating
the document I present it outside the primary screen when the user
notices the menu in another language he will close the screen and find
himself back at the point where he left off .
Soemtimes I even drop the menu section form the document and leave links
to the language mainpage

Can you give an example illustrating, demonstrating all this? Just an url.

DU

or just a

 

[Mark Parnell]

The target="_blank" isn't blocked by the popup-blockers I use (have used
& tried)

Is by my browser.

 

[Whitecrest]

In some webpage design situations, recycling an already opened secondary
window is a responsible and defendable webpage design decision.

If I open a window, it is my responsibility to re-use it if you click
another link on my site that I want to pop open a new window. I agree
in virtually all cases where you open a new window, this should be your
re-use philosophy.

 

[derek giroulle]

DU wrote :

Creating a new window takes considerable amount of time, cpu, ..
I'm trying to defend, justify my use of his resources here.

I agree with that position

In some webpage design situations, recycling an already opened secondary
window is a responsible and defendable webpage design decision.

I agree with that too, and I will use it as much as possible (see my
subject on html/css compliance

Can you show an example of this?

Sure look at http://users.skynet.be/derex/Eng/News_eng.htm

the link "Animated Presentations.." in the leftside menu : is how I
don't want to do this
the link to "Sarah" is how I want to present 3rd party information

as a matter of fact the link to "sarah" is internal and will be
presented in an Iframe in the next version (this was inherited code that
reacts just the inverse way I would apply)

Can you give an example illustrating, demonstrating all this? Just an url.

in the same page you can use the link "statutes" it willshow you a page
with a menu in another language as the previous english page your were
browsing
So after you've read the statutes page by closing the window I will
protect "navigational integrity" in the original window

As you can see I need no info returned to my original window.

In my new project I'm trying to keep a much stricter approach :
internal information is diplayed in the window originally opened to my
site and external info / unrelated info is presented in a new browser
window.

derek

 

[DU]

If I open a window, it is my responsibility to re-use it if you click
another link on my site that I want to pop open a new window.

Then you would be against target="_blank" links.

I agree

in virtually all cases where you open a new window, this should be your
re-use philosophy.

That is what I also do in all webpages where I use/code requested popup
links on my websites. I never use target="_blank" as this is equivalent
in my mind to poor usage of users' system resources.

DU

 

[Whitecrest]

Then you would be against target="_blank" links.

Yes, if you are popping up several different windows.

 

[DU]

DU wrote :


I agree with that position


I agree with that too, and I will use it as much as possible (see my
subject on html/css compliance


Sure look at http://users.skynet.be/derex/Eng/News_eng.htm

I tried your page with NS 7.1 and opened View/Page Info/Links and I
could not find a single link with a target="_blank".
Addendum: never mind. There has to be/is a bug here with NS 7.1 and
Mozilla 1.7.

the link "Animated Presentations.." in the leftside menu : is how I
don't want to do this

I have not found any links with the text Animated Presentations or any
text close to that.

the link to "Sarah" is how I want to present 3rd party information

Well, they all are normal links. Nothing special.

as a matter of fact the link to "sarah" is internal and will be
presented in an Iframe in the next version (this was inherited code that
reacts just the inverse way I would apply)



in the same page you can use the link "statutes"

Strange. It does not show _blank in the target column of Page Info in NS
7.1 neither in Mozilla 1.7 even though your code clearly declares
target="_blank": this *must* be a bug.

More later.

DU

it willshow you a page

 

[derek giroulle]

Well, they all are normal links. Nothing special.
Strange. It does not show _blank in the target column of Page Info in NS
7.1 neither in Mozilla 1.7 even though your code clearly declares
target="_blank": this *must* be a bug.

I do agree with your statement about use of the readers/visitor's
resources, and you should avoid abuse of those resources wich are not
your own to "spend"

Nevertheless
Do you feel that the use I propose for "target _blank", ie
- proposing related 3rd party info "outside the primary window opened by
the website
- navigational integrity within the website
are acceptable reasons to open a new window? and tie up the users
resources?

I know too that the second is a matter for doubt because the developper
is responsible for his own navigational integrity!

What do other members of this forum feel about these issues
derek