target="_blank" in netscape

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Peter Mount, Jun 20, 2004.

  1. Peter Mount

    Peter Mount Guest

    Hello

    When I use target="_blank" in my forms it works well to create pop up window
    in Internet Explorer but in Navigator it still creates a full sized window.
    I don't want to use the window.open method in Javascript as I've heard that
    pop up blockers will stop this from working. Is there a way to fix this
    problem?

    Thanks

    Peter Mount
     
    Peter Mount, Jun 20, 2004
    #1
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  2. Peter Mount

    rf Guest

    "Peter Mount" <> wrote in message
    news:40d55ab3$...
    > Hello
    >
    > When I use target="_blank" in my forms it works well to create pop up

    window
    > in Internet Explorer but in Navigator it still creates a full sized

    window.

    Please explain the difference between "pop up window" and "full sized
    window" in this context.

    target="_blank" should work identically with both browsers.

    > I don't want to use the window.open method in Javascript as I've heard

    that
    > pop up blockers will stop this from working. Is there a way to fix this
    > problem?


    Pop-up blockers also block windows launched with target="_blank".

    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Jun 20, 2004
    #2
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  3. Peter Mount

    Steve Pugh Guest

    "Peter Mount" <> wrote:

    >When I use target="_blank" in my forms it works well to create pop up window
    >in Internet Explorer but in Navigator it still creates a full sized window.


    This depends on more than just the browser. It also depends on the
    version of the browser, the operating system, and whether the original
    window was maimised or not.

    target="_blank" says to the browser "open a new window as you see
    best".

    >I don't want to use the window.open method in Javascript as I've heard that
    >pop up blockers will stop this from working.


    Some popup blockers also block target="_blank". Or cause it to open in
    a new tab. Or cause it to open in the original window.

    >Is there a way to fix this problem?


    Don't open a new window.

    Steve

    --
    "My theories appal you, my heresies outrage you,
    I never answer letters and you don't like my tie." - The Doctor

    Steve Pugh <> <http://steve.pugh.net/>
     
    Steve Pugh, Jun 20, 2004
    #3
  4. Peter Mount

    Peter Mount Guest

    Hello

    Which pop up blockers do this?


    "Steve Pugh" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:...
    >
    > Some popup blockers also block target="_blank". Or cause it to open in
    > a new tab. Or cause it to open in the original window.
    >


    Thanks

    Peter Mount
     
    Peter Mount, Jun 20, 2004
    #4
  5. Peter Mount

    rf Guest

    [post rearranged]

    You put your gratuity and sig at the bottom. Why did you not put your
    question below the quoted bit you were questioning?

    "Peter Mount" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > "Steve Pugh" <> wrote in message
    > news:eek:...
    > >
    > > Some popup blockers also block target="_blank". Or cause it to open in
    > > a new tab. Or cause it to open in the original window.


    > Which pop up blockers do this?


    Many third party popup blockers simply prohibit any new window from opening,
    for any reason.

    The one I use (popup-stopper from panicware) will not allow a new browser
    instance (read new window) to launch, even if it me that is launching it. I
    have to lean on the ctrl key to open a new browser instance.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Jun 20, 2004
    #5
  6. Peter Mount

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <40d55ab3$>,
    says...
    > When I use target="_blank" in my forms it works well to create pop up window
    > in Internet Explorer but in Navigator it still creates a full sized window.
    > I don't want to use the window.open method in Javascript as I've heard that
    > pop up blockers will stop this from working. Is there a way to fix this
    > problem?


    If you perceive a pop up to be a problem, then don't use a popup.
    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
     
    Whitecrest, Jun 20, 2004
    #6
  7. Peter Mount

    Neal Guest

    On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 10:43:29 GMT, rf <> wrote:


    >> Which pop up blockers (block all popup browser windows)?

    >
    > Many third party popup blockers simply prohibit any new window from
    > opening,
    > for any reason.
    >
    > The one I use (popup-stopper from panicware) will not allow a new browser
    > instance (read new window) to launch, even if it me that is launching
    > it. I
    > have to lean on the ctrl key to open a new browser instance.


    I've tried a number of pop-up blockers which work identically. Perhaps the
    most popular, the Google toolbar, works this way as well.
     
    Neal, Jun 20, 2004
    #7
  8. Peter Mount

    DU Guest

    Peter Mount wrote:

    > Hello
    >
    > When I use target="_blank" in my forms it works well to create pop up window
    > in Internet Explorer but in Navigator it still creates a full sized window.


    target="_blank" popup windows will be the same size of its parent/opener
    and 15px to its right and 15px to its bottom: this is true for NS 7.x,
    Mozilla-based browsers and MSIE 6 and the motivations behind this is
    related to best usability reasons. You may have the impression that NS
    creates a full sized window but resize the opener and then try again.

    A target="_blank" popup window bring other problems, namely the
    impossibility to reuse, to recycle such secondary window.

    > I don't want to use the window.open method in Javascript as I've heard that
    > pop up blockers will stop this from working.


    Most popup blockers are set to prevent opening of unrequested,
    unsollicited popups (during load time). Those who set popup blockers to
    prevent or neutralize window.open() should still open the referenced
    documents into the same window unless the web author resorted to
    "javascript:" pseudo-protocol which is unfortunately quite common and
    quite wrong.

    DU

    Is there a way to fix this
    > problem?
    >
    > Thanks
    >
    > Peter Mount
    >
    >
    >
     
    DU, Jun 21, 2004
    #8
  9. DU wrote:

    >> When I use target="_blank" in my forms ... to create pop up window

    I don't understand why you call this a popup (which imho. looks smaller
    has no browser statu and menu bars and sits on top of your browser)

    >> in Internet Explorer but in Navigator it still creates a full sized window.

    I find that it creates new windows in IE and new tabs in NN, Mozilla,
    Opera and Netcaptor

    >> I don't want to use the window.open method in Javascript as I've heard
    >> that pop up blockers will stop this from working.

    The target="_blank" isn't blocked by the popup-blockers I use (have used
    & tried)

    >
    > A target="_blank" popup window bring other problems, namely the
    > impossibility to reuse, to recycle such secondary window.


    If you want to reuse or gather information in that secordary window it's
    a bad idea to make a popup ( imho. )
    I only use it for 2 reasons :

    1 - present an outside link and maintain my website available to the
    user when he has finished with the 3rd party info i provide

    2 - to preserve the navigational integrity i.e. I present a single
    (multi)language document in any language context and I can't make out
    what menu the user came to the document from and the document has its
    own menu markup belonging to its basic language. rather than duplicating
    the document I present it outside the primary screen when the user
    notices the menu in another language he will close the screen and find
    himself back at the point where he left off .
    Soemtimes I even drop the menu section form the document and leave links
    to the language mainpage or just a
    "close_this_window_to_return_to_the_webpage" button

    I find this naviagationally correct usage rather then hyacking other
    people's content in a frame or trying to recover from this situation
     
    derek giroulle, Jun 22, 2004
    #9
  10. Peter Mount

    DU Guest

    derek giroulle wrote:

    >
    >
    > DU wrote:
    >
    >>> When I use target="_blank" in my forms ... to create pop up window

    >
    > I don't understand why you call this a popup (which imho. looks smaller
    > has no browser statu and menu bars and sits on top of your browser)
    >
    >>> in Internet Explorer but in Navigator it still creates a full sized
    >>> window.

    >
    > I find that it creates new windows in IE and new tabs in NN, Mozilla,
    > Opera and Netcaptor
    >
    >>> I don't want to use the window.open method in Javascript as I've
    >>> heard that pop up blockers will stop this from working.

    >
    > The target="_blank" isn't blocked by the popup-blockers I use (have used
    > & tried)
    >
    > >
    > > A target="_blank" popup window bring other problems, namely the
    > > impossibility to reuse, to recycle such secondary window.

    >
    > If you want to reuse or gather information in that secordary window it's
    > a bad idea to make a popup ( imho. )


    Creating a new window takes considerable amount of time, cpu, RAM, code
    execution in the browser software, memory management, toolbar creations,
    window frame, document loading, all kinds of branch code, etc... If you
    investigate closely the issue, you'll easily see that new secondary
    window represents well above 5000 lines of code in modern browsers.

    Now, all this is created on the user's system and thanks to the user's
    system resources. My reasoning for recycling secondary windows is that
    if I'm going to promote (didn't say impose here) this
    new-separate-window scenario to the user, then I better have a good
    justification to do so and best would be to reuse it eventually. I'm
    trying to defend, justify my use of his resources here. And the best
    approach is to notify the user in advance of all this, fair and square.

    In some webpage design situations, recycling an already opened secondary
    window is a responsible and defendable webpage design decision.

    > I only use it for 2 reasons :
    >
    > 1 - present an outside link and maintain my website available to the
    > user when he has finished with the 3rd party info i provide
    >


    Can you show an example of this?

    > 2 - to preserve the navigational integrity i.e. I present a single
    > (multi)language document in any language context and I can't make out
    > what menu the user came to the document from and the document has its
    > own menu markup belonging to its basic language. rather than duplicating
    > the document I present it outside the primary screen when the user
    > notices the menu in another language he will close the screen and find
    > himself back at the point where he left off .
    > Soemtimes I even drop the menu section form the document and leave links
    > to the language mainpage


    Can you give an example illustrating, demonstrating all this? Just an url.

    DU

    or just a
    > "close_this_window_to_return_to_the_webpage" button
    >
    > I find this naviagationally correct usage rather then hyacking other
    > people's content in a frame or trying to recover from this situation
    >
     
    DU, Jun 23, 2004
    #10
  11. Peter Mount

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 21:21:36 +0200, derek giroulle
    <> declared in alt.html:

    > The target="_blank" isn't blocked by the popup-blockers I use (have used
    > & tried)


    Is by my browser.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
     
    Mark Parnell, Jun 23, 2004
    #11
  12. Peter Mount

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <cbb8em$fq8$>,
    says...
    > In some webpage design situations, recycling an already opened secondary
    > window is a responsible and defendable webpage design decision.


    If I open a window, it is my responsibility to re-use it if you click
    another link on my site that I want to pop open a new window. I agree
    in virtually all cases where you open a new window, this should be your
    re-use philosophy.

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
     
    Whitecrest, Jun 23, 2004
    #12
  13. DU wrote :
    >
    > Creating a new window takes considerable amount of time, cpu, ..
    > I'm trying to defend, justify my use of his resources here.

    I agree with that position

    > In some webpage design situations, recycling an already opened secondary
    > window is a responsible and defendable webpage design decision.

    I agree with that too, and I will use it as much as possible (see my
    subject on html/css compliance

    >> I only use it for 2 reasons :
    >> 1 - present an outside link and maintain my website available to the
    >> user when he has finished with the 3rd party info i provide

    > Can you show an example of this?

    Sure look at http://users.skynet.be/derex/Eng/News_eng.htm

    the link "Animated Presentations.." in the leftside menu : is how I
    don't want to do this
    the link to "Sarah" is how I want to present 3rd party information

    as a matter of fact the link to "sarah" is internal and will be
    presented in an Iframe in the next version (this was inherited code that
    reacts just the inverse way I would apply)

    >> 2 - to preserve the navigational integrity i.e. I present a single
    >> (multi)language document in any language

    >
    > Can you give an example illustrating, demonstrating all this? Just an url.


    in the same page you can use the link "statutes" it willshow you a page
    with a menu in another language as the previous english page your were
    browsing
    So after you've read the statutes page by closing the window I will
    protect "navigational integrity" in the original window

    As you can see I need no info returned to my original window.

    In my new project I'm trying to keep a much stricter approach :
    internal information is diplayed in the window originally opened to my
    site and external info / unrelated info is presented in a new browser
    window.

    derek
     
    derek giroulle, Jun 23, 2004
    #13
  14. Peter Mount

    DU Guest

    Whitecrest wrote:

    > In article <cbb8em$fq8$>,
    > says...
    >
    >>In some webpage design situations, recycling an already opened secondary
    >>window is a responsible and defendable webpage design decision.

    >
    >
    > If I open a window, it is my responsibility to re-use it if you click
    > another link on my site that I want to pop open a new window.


    Then you would be against target="_blank" links.

    I agree
    > in virtually all cases where you open a new window, this should be your
    > re-use philosophy.
    >


    That is what I also do in all webpages where I use/code requested popup
    links on my websites. I never use target="_blank" as this is equivalent
    in my mind to poor usage of users' system resources.

    DU
     
    DU, Jun 25, 2004
    #14
  15. Peter Mount

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <cbg44m$5u6$>,
    says...
    > > If I open a window, it is my responsibility to re-use it if you click
    > > another link on my site that I want to pop open a new window.

    > Then you would be against target="_blank" links.


    Yes, if you are popping up several different windows.

    > > I agree
    > > in virtually all cases where you open a new window, this should be your
    > > re-use philosophy.

    > That is what I also do in all webpages where I use/code requested popup
    > links on my websites. I never use target="_blank" as this is equivalent
    > in my mind to poor usage of users' system resources.

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
     
    Whitecrest, Jun 25, 2004
    #15
  16. Peter Mount

    DU Guest

    derek giroulle wrote:

    > DU wrote :
    >
    >>
    >> Creating a new window takes considerable amount of time, cpu, ..
    >> I'm trying to defend, justify my use of his resources here.

    >
    > I agree with that position
    >
    >> In some webpage design situations, recycling an already opened
    >> secondary window is a responsible and defendable webpage design decision.

    >
    > I agree with that too, and I will use it as much as possible (see my
    > subject on html/css compliance
    >
    >>> I only use it for 2 reasons :
    >>> 1 - present an outside link and maintain my website available to the
    >>> user when he has finished with the 3rd party info i provide

    >>
    >> Can you show an example of this?

    >
    > Sure look at http://users.skynet.be/derex/Eng/News_eng.htm
    >


    I tried your page with NS 7.1 and opened View/Page Info/Links and I
    could not find a single link with a target="_blank".
    Addendum: never mind. There has to be/is a bug here with NS 7.1 and
    Mozilla 1.7.

    > the link "Animated Presentations.." in the leftside menu : is how I
    > don't want to do this


    I have not found any links with the text Animated Presentations or any
    text close to that.

    > the link to "Sarah" is how I want to present 3rd party information
    >


    Well, they all are normal links. Nothing special.

    > as a matter of fact the link to "sarah" is internal and will be
    > presented in an Iframe in the next version (this was inherited code that
    > reacts just the inverse way I would apply)
    >
    > >> 2 - to preserve the navigational integrity i.e. I present a single

    >
    >>> (multi)language document in any language

    >>
    >>
    >> Can you give an example illustrating, demonstrating all this? Just an
    >> url.

    >
    >
    > in the same page you can use the link "statutes"


    Strange. It does not show _blank in the target column of Page Info in NS
    7.1 neither in Mozilla 1.7 even though your code clearly declares
    target="_blank": this *must* be a bug.

    More later.

    DU

    it willshow you a page
    > with a menu in another language as the previous english page your were
    > browsing
    > So after you've read the statutes page by closing the window I will
    > protect "navigational integrity" in the original window
    >
    > As you can see I need no info returned to my original window.
    >
    > In my new project I'm trying to keep a much stricter approach :
    > internal information is diplayed in the window originally opened to my
    > site and external info / unrelated info is presented in a new browser
    > window.
    >
    > derek
    >
     
    DU, Jun 25, 2004
    #16
  17. DU wrote:
    > derek giroulle wrote:
    >>> Creating a new window takes considerable amount of time, cpu, ..
    >>> I'm trying to defend, justify my use of his resources here.

    >> I agree with that position


    >>> In some webpage design situations, recycling an already opened
    >>> secondary window is a responsible and defendable webpage design
    >>> decision.

    >> I agree with that too, and I will use it as much as possible (see my
    >> subject on html/css compliance


    >>> Can you show an example of this?


    >> Sure look at http://users.skynet.be/derex/Eng/News_eng.htm
    >>

    >
    >> the link to "Sarah" is how I want to present 3rd party information

    > Well, they all are normal links. Nothing special.
    > Strange. It does not show _blank in the target column of Page Info in NS
    > 7.1 neither in Mozilla 1.7 even though your code clearly declares
    > target="_blank": this *must* be a bug.
    >

    I do agree with your statement about use of the readers/visitor's
    resources, and you should avoid abuse of those resources wich are not
    your own to "spend"

    Nevertheless
    Do you feel that the use I propose for "target _blank", ie
    - proposing related 3rd party info "outside the primary window opened by
    the website
    - navigational integrity within the website
    are acceptable reasons to open a new window? and tie up the users
    resources?

    I know too that the second is a matter for doubt because the developper
    is responsible for his own navigational integrity!

    What do other members of this forum feel about these issues
    derek
     
    derek giroulle, Jun 26, 2004
    #17
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