Target = Blank vs Top

Discussion in 'HTML' started by bPstyles, Oct 24, 2004.

  1. bPstyles

    bPstyles Guest

    Is there any difference between using _blank and _top when you want a link
    to open in a new window?

    Thanks.
     
    bPstyles, Oct 24, 2004
    #1
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  2. Op Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:28:19 -0400, schreef bPstyles
    <>:

    > Is there any difference between using _blank and _top when you want a
    > link
    > to open in a new window?


    There is no difference. They're equally annoying.


    --
    PretLetters <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/>
    Zweefvliegen <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>
    Webontwerp <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
    DTD <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/dtd/not_so_strict.dtd>
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Oct 24, 2004
    #2
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  3. bPstyles

    brucie Guest

    In alt.html bPstyles said:

    > Is there any difference between using _blank and _top when you want a link
    > to open in a new window?


    <quote>
    _self
    The user agent should load the document in the same frame as the element
    that refers to this target.

    _top
    The user agent should load the document into the full, original window
    (thus canceling all other frames). This value is equivalent to _self if
    the current frame has no parent.
    </quote> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/types.html#h-6.16

    and just incase:
    http://david.us-lot.org/www/frames/
    http://html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil
    http://www.karlcore.com/articles/article.php?id=2
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/l_vajzovic/tom/web/frames.html

    --


    v o i c e s
     
    brucie, Oct 24, 2004
    #3
  4. bPstyles

    bPstyles Guest

    "brucie" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > In alt.html bPstyles said:
    >
    > > Is there any difference between using _blank and _top when you want a

    link
    > > to open in a new window?

    >
    > <quote>
    > _self
    > The user agent should load the document in the same frame as the element
    > that refers to this target.
    >
    > _top
    > The user agent should load the document into the full, original window
    > (thus canceling all other frames). This value is equivalent to _self if
    > the current frame has no parent.
    > </quote> http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/types.html#h-6.16
    >
    > and just incase:
    > http://david.us-lot.org/www/frames/
    > http://html-faq.com/htmlframes/?framesareevil
    > http://www.karlcore.com/articles/article.php?id=2
    > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/l_vajzovic/tom/web/frames.html


    Thanks. My search sucked, so I must have done something wrong.

    > --
    >
    >
    > v o i c e s
     
    bPstyles, Oct 24, 2004
    #4
  5. bPstyles

    bPstyles Guest

    "Barbara de Zoete" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:psgcjplqzx5vgts@dunnet-q4wppud9...
    > Op Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:28:19 -0400, schreef bPstyles
    > <>:
    >
    > > Is there any difference between using _blank and _top when you want a
    > > link
    > > to open in a new window?

    >
    > There is no difference. They're equally annoying.


    Well, if I am linking to an external page, I'd rather have it pop-up in a
    new browser window.

    >
    >
    > --
    > PretLetters <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/>
    > Zweefvliegen <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>
    > Webontwerp <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
    > DTD <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/dtd/not_so_strict.dtd>
     
    bPstyles, Oct 24, 2004
    #5
  6. bPstyles

    brucie Guest

    brucie, Oct 24, 2004
    #6
  7. Op Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:10:08 -0400, schreef bPstyles
    <>:
    > "Barbara de Zoete" <> wrote in message
    > news:eek:psgcjplqzx5vgts@dunnet-q4wppud9...
    >> Op Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:28:19 -0400, schreef bPstyles
    >> <>:
    >>
    >> > Is there any difference between using _blank and _top when you want a
    >> > link
    >> > to open in a new window?

    >>
    >> There is no difference. They're equally annoying.

    >
    > Well, if I am linking to an external page, I'd rather have it pop-up in a
    > new browser window.
    >


    Just shows that different people have different preferences.
    If you like an external page to pop-up in a new browser window, rightclick
    the link and choose for that option. If one implements this as the
    default, the person who doesn't like a new window to pop-up doesn't get to
    choose.


    --
    PretLetters <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/>
    Zweefvliegen <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>
    Webontwerp <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
    DTD <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/dtd/not_so_strict.dtd>
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Oct 24, 2004
    #7
  8. bPstyles

    bPstyles Guest

    "brucie" <> wrote in message
    news:1rg9glcs7soub$...
    > In alt.html bPstyles said:
    >
    > > Well, if I am linking to an external page, I'd rather have it pop-up in

    a
    > > new browser window.

    >
    > opening new windows is really icky poo. let the visitor decide if they
    > want a new window or not.
    >
    > http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_16_not_opening_new_windows.html


    Well, I only do it in a certain instance, I do not abuse it. I know this
    tutorial proclaims that you should only do it in extremely extenuating
    circumstances, but I would really like to do it in mine. I run a video game
    website and I have a section that provides links to online rental companies
    (obviously with an affiliate partnership). I don't want them to lose my
    page in their surfing. I am hoping people won't frown on it too much.

    > --
    >
    >
    > v o i c e s
     
    bPstyles, Oct 24, 2004
    #8
  9. bPstyles

    bPstyles Guest

    "Barbara de Zoete" <> wrote in message
    news:eek:psgclx0d9x5vgts@dunnet-q4wppud9...
    > Op Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:10:08 -0400, schreef bPstyles
    > <>:
    > > "Barbara de Zoete" <> wrote in message
    > > news:eek:psgcjplqzx5vgts@dunnet-q4wppud9...
    > >> Op Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:28:19 -0400, schreef bPstyles
    > >> <>:
    > >>
    > >> > Is there any difference between using _blank and _top when you want a
    > >> > link
    > >> > to open in a new window?
    > >>
    > >> There is no difference. They're equally annoying.

    > >
    > > Well, if I am linking to an external page, I'd rather have it pop-up in

    a
    > > new browser window.
    > >

    >
    > Just shows that different people have different preferences.
    > If you like an external page to pop-up in a new browser window, rightclick
    > the link and choose for that option. If one implements this as the
    > default, the person who doesn't like a new window to pop-up doesn't get to
    > choose.


    Oh, I know what I do... exactly what you just outlined. I just don't trust
    the average surfer. Maybe I am wrong.

    >
    > --
    > PretLetters <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/>
    > Zweefvliegen <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>
    > Webontwerp <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
    > DTD <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/dtd/not_so_strict.dtd>
     
    bPstyles, Oct 24, 2004
    #9
  10. Op Sat, 23 Oct 2004 20:25:19 -0400, schreef bPstyles
    <>:
    > "brucie" <> wrote in message
    > news:1rg9glcs7soub$...


    >> opening new windows is really icky poo. let the visitor decide if they
    >> want a new window or not.
    >>
    >> http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_16_not_opening_new_windows.html

    >
    > Well, I only do it in a certain instance, I do not abuse it.


    > I don't want them to lose my page in their surfing.



    Oh, but that's easy. Just provide good content and your wandering visitor
    will come bakc to you.


    --
    PretLetters <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/>
    Zweefvliegen <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html>
    Webontwerp <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html>
    DTD <http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/dtd/not_so_strict.dtd>
     
    Barbara de Zoete, Oct 24, 2004
    #10
  11. bPstyles

    brucie Guest

    In alt.html bPstyles said:

    > Well, I only do it in a certain instance, I do not abuse it.


    using it is abusing it, you're removing a choice from the visitor

    > I would really like to do it in mine.


    if you like it then open the new windows yourself. holding the shift key
    while clicking a link usually does it. check your browser help files.

    > I don't want them to lose my page in their surfing.


    you're more likely to lose them by opening a new window. for a start the
    back button is broken so they cant get back to your site using the most
    used means of navigation, the back button (not counting links
    themselves) and populating new windows has a high risk of the visitor
    closing the one with your site on it. really, there have been studies
    made, we don't just make this shit up.


    --


    v o i c e s
     
    brucie, Oct 24, 2004
    #11
  12. bPstyles wrote;

    > > http://diveintoaccessibility.org/day_16_not_opening_new_windows.html

    >
    > Well, I only do it in a certain instance, I do not abuse it.


    If you open new window, you abuse target attribute.

    > I know this
    > tutorial proclaims that you should only do it in extremely extenuating
    > circumstances, but I would really like to do it in mine. I run a video game
    > website and I have a section that provides links to online rental companies
    > (obviously with an affiliate partnership). I don't want them to lose my
    > page in their surfing.


    Well, you make them lose your page by opening new window. Back button
    will not work. If I have 25 windows, it is much esier to go back using
    back button than trying to remember what was the last page titlet.

    Other potential group to lose your site is those that don't really get
    multible windows thing, and only find your window after closing the one
    you open, after they have spent time on the other wondering why back
    button don't work.

    Opening pages in new windows only help people that do get the idea of new
    windows, but don't know how to open such.

    > I am hoping people won't frown on it too much.


    I will usually abandon sites opening new windows, if there just is any
    site that have even comparable content.

    Why hope? I haven't heard anyone getting complaints from not opening new
    windows.



    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
     
    Lauri Raittila, Oct 24, 2004
    #12
  13. bPstyles

    Eric Bohlman Guest

    "bPstyles" <> wrote in
    news::

    > Oh, I know what I do... exactly what you just outlined. I just don't
    > trust the average surfer. Maybe I am wrong.


    On the Web, the more a site author *tries* to control the way his readers
    browse, the less control he actually has. You'll actually get *more*
    "uniformity of user experience" if you just get out of the way and let your
    readers browse the way they're used to browsing (and the overwhelming
    majority of them *will* be used to browsing; your site is very unlikely to
    get any hits from Total Internet Newbies since they'll be sticking to their
    ISP's home page or Yahoo or something like that until they get more
    familiar).
     
    Eric Bohlman, Oct 24, 2004
    #13
  14. bPstyles

    Karl Core Guest

    "bPstyles" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >


    > Oh, I know what I do... exactly what you just outlined. I just don't
    > trust
    > the average surfer. Maybe I am wrong.
    >


    Yes. You are wrong. In fact, opening a new window will do exactly the
    opposite of what you want it to do.
    Opening a new window will cause the user to get lost and not be able to find
    their way back to your site. I have seen that exact thing happen in the
    usability lab.

    -Karl
     
    Karl Core, Oct 24, 2004
    #14
  15. Quoth the raven bPstyles:

    > Well, I only do it in a certain instance, I do not abuse it. I
    > know this tutorial proclaims that you should only do it in
    > extremely extenuating circumstances, but I would really like to do
    > it in mine. I run a video game website and I have a section that
    > provides links to online rental companies (obviously with an
    > affiliate partnership). I don't want them to lose my page in their
    > surfing. I am hoping people won't frown on it too much.


    What you are missing is if the visitor has hir browser maximized, your
    new window will completely cover it. Ok, they look at the page you
    took them to, then they click the Back button. Whoops! It's broken!
    Doesn't go anywhere. What to do now?

    They go to Google and search for something else. Hours later when they
    are finished surfing and close your new window, they find yours
    underneath.

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Oct 24, 2004
    #15
  16. bPstyles

    rf Guest

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote

    > What you are missing is if the visitor has hir browser maximized, your
    > new window will completely cover it. Ok, they look at the page you
    > took them to, then they click the Back button. Whoops! It's broken!
    > Doesn't go anywhere. What to do now?
    >
    > They go to Google and search for something else. Hours later when they
    > are finished surfing and close your new window, they find yours
    > underneath.


    thinking: Crikey, who put that there. Must be a virus, I'll have to
    black-ban it :-(

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Oct 24, 2004
    #16
  17. bPstyles

    brucie Guest

    In alt.html Beauregard T. Shagnasty said:

    > finished surfing


    you can do that? wow! i'm going to save a fortune on eye drops and
    amphetamines.

    --


    v o i c e s
     
    brucie, Oct 24, 2004
    #17
  18. Quoth the raven brucie:

    > In alt.html Beauregard T. Shagnasty said:
    >
    >> finished surfing

    >
    > you can do that? wow! i'm going to save a fortune on eye drops and
    > amphetamines.


    Be careful if you are breast feeding, though... <g>
    http://www.prodhelp.com/eyecare/eye_care7.shtml

    (lovely site this, btw.)

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Oct 24, 2004
    #18
  19. bPstyles

    Noozer Guest

    "bPstyles" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Is there any difference between using _blank and _top when you want a link
    > to open in a new window?


    _blank is a new window - Don't do it, it's annoying!

    _top is the parent window containing the link. Usually the same window.

    If you MUST open a new window pick a meaningful name for it so multiple
    clicks will reuse the new target window instead of spawning dozens of
    windows. A user can still hold SHIFT if the need a third, etc. window.
     
    Noozer, Oct 24, 2004
    #19
  20. bPstyles

    brucie Guest

    In alt.html Noozer said:

    > If you MUST open a new window pick a meaningful name for it so multiple
    > clicks will reuse the new target window instead of spawning dozens of
    > windows.


    good gowd someone kill me. thats even worse than _blank!

    --


    v o i c e s
     
    brucie, Oct 24, 2004
    #20
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