Andy said:
From the OP's original post, they're designing in the visual view.
That's debatable. They simplify the process of making a bad fixed-size
site, but I've yet to see DW features (or any WYSIWYG HTML editor) that
encourage _good_ coding of the site.
Who rattled your cage ?
It was feeding time.
I don't know dreamweaver.
Yeah, like I couldn't guess that
Bumped into it a few times (just last week for
one, because it was the only editor on the machine I was using). I've
yet to see anything that attracts me to it. The interface of the code
editor is clunky and it doesn't do XML auto closing-tag insertion, which
is one of the few really useful features of an editor that isn't just a
typing accelerator.
For pure coding Eclipse is probably better, but there is no hyrid
application better than DW right now. "Designers" need to remember that
web design is as much about what the resulting page looks like as is how
neat the code is. Very difficult and time consuming if there is an extra
layer (ie; publish and view) before you see the results. Hardly a
streamlined process, and not good when you are constantly adjusting
output or experimenting. All of this can be done real time without
publising in an IDE like DW. Perhasp the next version of DW closes XML
tags (or maybe there's a plugin?), but to be honest, personally I dont
do enough pure XML to warrent the change (I'm a design, not a programmer).
So it "doesn't like" something as fundamental as a <div> and we're
expected to recommend it ?
Under most circumstances it's fine; and even psuedo WYSIWYG is better
than *none*, especially if it saves you having to publish before you can
view your content. I wouldn't expect ANY IDE to manage it perfectly,
given that most pages these days contain a lot of server side code. But
a smart guess can save a lot of time, and if you are designing sites
where the "user interface" is seperated from functional code (as you
should with CSS), programs like DW shine.
The biggest downside of all of this is that it is very easy for a newbie
to sling together some pretty ropey HTML. But then every tool can be
abused - that's not the fault of the tool.
DW (and all other WYSIWYGs I've seen) are particularly poor on this.
DW's style interface is not very good; actually I tend to code all my CS
by hand within a code window inside DW. It has excellant code hinting
(yes, even on CSS), so when I'm really burned out it reminds me of
things I should know!
Once you have defined these styles they can be applied at a click of a
button, or by hand in the code window. Either way once they are there
management is far easier than by hand, and application of the becomes
extremely easy.
They have no "styles", as distinct entities. They have HTML elements
(in a trivial DOM) and they have CSS properties. Sometimes they assemble
collections of properties and attach them to elements. But none of this
is a "style", in the sense of a coherent property-set with a meaning to
it, rather than just a coincidental coupling of them.
Yes - but a designer worth anything knows this and knows how to do it
"the right way". DW is just a way of accelerating a process - it's by no
means the solution to everything. By using a combination of the UI tools
and hand coding it massively reduces keyboard time and makes it a lot
easier to visualise what you are trying to do.
No it isn't - not at all. Making a good site is about the end result
you achieve, not the slickness of the editor you used to do it.
Yes - but your website itself is a UI. That was my point. Nobody cares
how you made the web site. Just that it works. And if you are charging a
customer for your time, then how fast your produce these results becomes
critically important.
I'm sure that DW is an excellent way to quickly build tables with
pixel-sized cells. And if that's what you think makes a "good site",
then good luck to you.
I never said that. What makes a good web site is a good designer. Not
any one tool.
M.
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