td tag border

[Haris Bogdanovich]

Why the td tag has no border
if it's empty ?
How to fix that ?

Thanks

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Why the td tag has no border
if it's empty ?
How to fix that ?

I see a lot of this: <td>&nbsp;</td>

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

I see a lot of this:<td>&nbsp;</td>

Yes, and it usually helps, but sometimes it's not applicable. Using the
no-break space implies some minimal width and height for the cell, and
this might not desirable in contexts where a cell with empty contents is
used.

Workarounds include the use of a single-pixel transparent image. But
usually solutions are better than workarounds: ask yourself why the cell
is empty, and you may find a reason to put some actual content there.
More on this:
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/HTML/emptycells.html

 

[Ray_Net]

Yes, and it usually helps, but sometimes it's not applicable. Using the
no-break space implies some minimal width and height for the cell, and
this might not desirable in contexts where a cell with empty contents is
used.

Workarounds include the use of a single-pixel transparent image. But
usually solutions are better than workarounds: ask yourself why the cell
is empty, and you may find a reason to put some actual content there.
More on this:
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/HTML/emptycells.html

Very good examples in your page rendered differently if using IE9 or
SeaMonkey. With SeaMonkey, we dont have a border for the two cases and
for the one pixel picture, the row is minimized with SeaMonkey and as
high as the other with IE9.

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Very good examples in your page rendered differently if using IE9 or
SeaMonkey. With SeaMonkey, we dont have a border for the two cases and
for the one pixel picture, the row is minimized with SeaMonkey and as
high as the other with IE9.

I'm not sure of what you mean here. I just downloaded and installed
SeaMonkey on Windows 7 Pro and checked the page on it. As far as I can
see, SeaMonkey draws borders around cells containing &nbsp;.

And both on IE 9 and Seamonkey show a "minimized" row when the only cell
contains only a one-pixel image. (The row is a few pixels high due to
default cellpadding.)

Are you using some special environment or setting=

 

[Ray_Net]

I'm not sure of what you mean here. I just downloaded and installed
SeaMonkey on Windows 7 Pro and checked the page on it. As far as I can
see, SeaMonkey draws borders around cells containing &nbsp;.

And both on IE 9 and Seamonkey show a "minimized" row when the only cell
contains only a one-pixel image. (The row is a few pixels high due to
default cellpadding.)

Are you using some special environment or setting=

All my settings are the default settings.
You can see the screen-copies SM-1, SM-2, IE9-1 and IE9-2 here
http://cjoint.com/?0KwaY0MytYX

 

[BootNic]

On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:27:02 +0200

[snip]

And both on IE 9 and Seamonkey show a "minimized" row when the only cell
contains only a one-pixel image. (The row is a few pixels high due to
default cellpadding.)

As they do with an empty cell yes?

[snip]



--
BootNic Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:27 pm
"They may forget what you said, but they will never forget how you made them
feel."
*Carl W. Buechner*

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[BootNic]

Why the td tag has no border if it's empty ? How to fix that ?

Update the browser.

Failing in that effort … one may try to add frame="border" to thetable.

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B...zQyNC00MWZmLWIyYzUtYWFkZmFjNjM5NmVl&hl=en_US


--
BootNic Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:39 pm
The human mind treats a new idea the same way the body treats a strange
protein; it rejects it.
*P. B. Medawar*

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=/dKl
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[Jukka K. Korpela]

You can see the screen-copies SM-1, SM-2, IE9-1 and IE9-2 here
http://cjoint.com/?0KwaY0MytYX

Thank you, this helps. The SeaMonkey rendering seems to have borders
around the empty cell - but the border style is the browser default,
which may not look like a real border. I have modified my page
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/emptycells.html
to set border style, color, and width more prominent.

On IE, it's more complicated. The rendering on IE 9 depends on the
browser mode and on its idea of document mode - a real mess. If you F12
on IE 9, you can test the effects of various modes. In the modern modes,
IE 9 shows a border even around empty cells, so the problem does not
appear there. But the dual problem exists: if you do _not_ want borders
around an empty cell, you need to explicitly prevent them. Luckily this
is easy on modern browsers using CSS (either set empty-cells: show on
the table element or set border: none on the cell).

 

[Ray_Net]

Thank you, this helps. The SeaMonkey rendering seems to have borders
around the empty cell - but the border style is the browser default,
which may not look like a real border. I have modified my page
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/emptycells.html
to set border style, color, and width more prominent.

On IE, it's more complicated. The rendering on IE 9 depends on the
browser mode and on its idea of document mode - a real mess. If you F12
on IE 9, you can test the effects of various modes. In the modern modes,
IE 9 shows a border even around empty cells, so the problem does not
appear there. But the dual problem exists: if you do _not_ want borders
around an empty cell, you need to explicitly prevent them. Luckily this
is easy on modern browsers using CSS (either set empty-cells: show on
the table element or set border: none on the cell).

There is still a problem on the example number 4 with the little pic of
one pixel in the cell. With SM the row height is null - with IE9 this
row have the same height as the others.

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

There is still a problem on the example number 4 with the little pic of
one pixel in the cell. With SM the row height is null - with IE9 this
row have the same height as the others.

It seems that from version 8, IE imposes some minimum height on a cell
that contains an image, even when there is no text in the cell. Firefox
does that, too. I wonder why they have made this change, as it probably
breaks many layouts (though maybe not very seriously).

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

There is still a problem on the example number 4 with the little pic of
one pixel in the cell. With SM the row height is null

Not in my SeaMonkey! Not even with Mozilla 1.0 the "daddy" of SeaMonkey...

 

[Jukka K. Korpela]

Not in my SeaMonkey! Not even with Mozilla 1.0 the "daddy" of SeaMonkey...

I can't explain that, but I have now modernized the page
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/emptycells.html
somewhat and added notes about preventing borders.

 

[Jonathan N. Little]

I can't explain that, but I have now modernized the page
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/emptycells.html
somewhat and added notes about preventing borders.

Maybe you misunderstood me, the 1px GIF worked just fine in my SeaMonkey
and even an old Mozilla 1.0 that I have running an a VM. This is in
contrast to what Ray wrote, I don't think it is SeaMonkey but some other
factor on his setup...

 

[Ray_Net]

I can't explain that, but I have now modernized the page
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/emptycells.html
somewhat and added notes about preventing borders.

Now with your new page SM and IE9 rendering is the same.
The two first foo-bar-zap-zip have the center row the same height as the
other. The thirth foo-bar-zap-zip have the center row a very small
height comparing with the others.