testing web page compatibility with older browsers

Discussion in 'HTML' started by anadashmaria@gmail.com, Feb 1, 2009.

  1. Guest

    Needless to say I'm new. I have designed a webapge using Frontpage
    2003 and have viewed it with the latest Mozilla Firefox and IE. The
    page looks OK to me. Other people tho insist that some text at the top
    of the page appears large and overlayed with itself. I assume this is
    due to their using older browsers at the very least and not refreshing
    the page at the most. How do I make sure my website looks good with
    some reasonable amount of varied and older browsers?
    , Feb 1, 2009
    #1
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  2. Guest

    , Feb 1, 2009
    #2
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  3. wrote:
    > http://www.toscanadayspanewbury.com/
    >
    > once you click this logo the top of the page (and probably every
    > subsequent page since the format is an exact copy)


    Ugh! 67Kb of M$ BS instead of markup. Looks more like a MS Publisher or
    Word creation than FrontPage. Your problem is not *old* browser but the
    brittle inflexible manner in which FrontPage has positioned everything
    on your page. Increase font size even one increment and everything falls
    apart.

    Hint to fix remove all "position: absolute"

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 1, 2009
    #3
  4. Gazing into my crystal ball I observed writing in
    news::

    > http://www.toscanadayspanewbury.com/
    >
    > once you click this logo the top of the page (and probably every
    > subsequent page since the format is an exact copy)
    >


    Well, I must say, it looks really nice with the pale blue background -
    or wait, that's because you did not set the page background color, and
    assumed that everyone chooses a white background for their window
    background color.

    I looked at http://www.toscanadayspanewbury.com/newbury.htm

    There are 144 markup errors and 2 warnings - http://tinyurl.com/dd7bf9

    This might be the worst markup I have ever seen. The first 1710 lines
    are all Microsoft BS, that your editor kindly spat out.

    Here are my suggestions:
    1. Get rid of FrontPage - seriously, delete it from your system and do
    not attempt to reinstall it.
    2. Read some good HTML markup tutorials - Brucie had a good list a while
    back, it's available at http://tinyurl.com/cllguw . Just scroll down to
    the list.
    3. Start over.

    --
    Adrienne Boswell at Home
    Arbpen Web Site Design Services
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
    Adrienne Boswell, Feb 1, 2009
    #4
  5. C A Upsdell Guest

    wrote:
    > Needless to say I'm new. I have designed a webapge using Frontpage
    > 2003 and have viewed it with the latest Mozilla Firefox and IE. The
    > page looks OK to me. Other people tho insist that some text at the top
    > of the page appears large and overlayed with itself. I assume this is
    > due to their using older browsers at the very least and not refreshing
    > the page at the most. How do I make sure my website looks good with
    > some reasonable amount of varied and older browsers?


    Microsoft killed FrontPage over 2 years ago, and it has long been
    obsolete, generating broken code designed for broken browsers.
    Microsoft's current equivalent product is Expression Web.

    Dump FrontPage. AFAIK Microsoft will sell Expression Web at an upgrade
    price if you have a legal copy of FrontPage. There are several
    alternatives. Or you could hand code, as I and many others do.

    You should also find a good book on learning HTML and CSS.

    You should also install a number of today's browsers, for test purposes:
    at the very minimum Firefox 2, Firefox 3, Opera 9, Safari 3, and
    Internet Explorer 6, 7, and 8 RC1. Perhaps also IE 5.01. Perhaps also
    Chrome if your pages use JavaScript. Note that installing multiple
    versions of IE will be tricky, because Windows only supports one version
    at a time. For more about this, see
    http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/res_testing.htm#d02
    C A Upsdell, Feb 1, 2009
    #5
  6. C A Upsdell wrote:

    > Internet Explorer 6, 7, and 8 RC1. Perhaps also IE 5.01. Perhaps also
    > Chrome if your pages use JavaScript. Note that installing multiple
    > versions of IE will be tricky, because Windows only supports one version
    > at a time. For more about this, see
    > http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/res_testing.htm#d02


    Technically yes for full versions from MS, but there have been many
    folks who have packaged standalone versions that will work on Windows
    (NOT Vista). The TredoSoft package bundles IE3-6 and without the
    problems that you list on your page. Conditional comments work and I can
    run all at once without problems...

    http://tredosoft.com/Multiple_IE
    Install multiple versions of IE on your PC | TredoSoft

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 1, 2009
    #6
  7. Guest


    > Hint to fix remove all "position: absolute"



    Thanks to the people who are helping and no thanks to those that are
    using this opportunity to make fun.

    I did remove all the instances on the newbury.htm page but then the
    entire layout was damaged.
    Then I undid it and just removed the position:absolute on the Title
    where the problem was happenning and that made the "toscana european
    day spa" disappear all together.

    Can you be a little more specific?

    I don't particularly like coding. I like a GUI much better at layout
    etc. I am going to learn some more advanced stuff... but for now I
    need to fix THIS page.
    , Feb 2, 2009
    #7
  8. rf Guest

    wrote:
    >> Hint to fix remove all "position: absolute"

    >
    >
    > Thanks to the people who are helping and no thanks to those that are
    > using this opportunity to make fun.


    Nobody made any fun. Several people quite seriously told you to dump
    frontpage, which is good advice.

    <snip>

    > I don't particularly like coding. I like a GUI much better at layout
    > etc. I am going to learn some more advanced stuff... but for now I
    > need to fix THIS page.


    You will never fix this page while you persist in letting frontpage stuff it
    up for you. Starting from scratch would be a better idea.
    rf, Feb 2, 2009
    #8
  9. Guest

    Ed,

    Do you mind looking at the /newbury.htm page again. I made that change
    but there is no way for me to know if it worked unless I install all
    the browsers.
    It will be a temporary fix if it works and I'll apply it to the rest
    of the pages. Thanks!!!!!!
    , Feb 2, 2009
    #9
  10. David Segall Guest

    wrote:

    >Needless to say I'm new. I have designed a webapge using Frontpage
    >2003 and have viewed it with the latest Mozilla Firefox and IE. The
    >page looks OK to me. Other people tho insist that some text at the top
    >of the page appears large and overlayed with itself. I assume this is
    >due to their using older browsers at the very least and not refreshing
    >the page at the most. How do I make sure my website looks good with
    >some reasonable amount of varied and older browsers?


    <http://browsershots.org/>
    David Segall, Feb 2, 2009
    #10
  11. Nik Coughlin Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I don't particularly like coding. I like a GUI much better at layout
    > etc. I am going to learn some more advanced stuff... but for now I
    > need to fix THIS page.


    If you're going to insist on using a WYSI(sn't)WYG (ie GUI) tool then use
    something decent. The successor to Frontpage is Expression and there is a
    30 day free trial available. Otherwise I believe that the newer versions of
    Dreamweaver are OK.

    Also you might be interested in this:

    http://browsershots.org/
    Nik Coughlin, Feb 2, 2009
    #11
  12. rf Guest

    wrote:
    > Ed,


    If you are talking to Ed then why are you replying to me? Oh, I see, you are
    using that stupidly broken web interface to usenet. Get yourself a
    newsreader and do it properly.

    > Do you mind looking at the /newbury.htm page again. I made that change
    > but there is no way for me to know if it worked unless I install all
    > the browsers.


    This page is now broken when using Internet Explorer versions 5.5, 6 and 7,
    Netscape, Seamonkey, Firefox, Safari and Chrome. It is very broken when
    using Opera.

    > It will be a temporary fix if it works and I'll apply it to the rest
    > of the pages.


    You will not be able to fix that page until you stop using frontpage and get
    rid of all that non-standard crap it put in there.
    rf, Feb 2, 2009
    #12
  13. Chaddy2222 Guest

    On Feb 2, 3:14 pm, "rf" <> wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > Ed,

    >
    > If you are talking to Ed then why are you replying to me? Oh, I see, you are
    > using that stupidly broken web interface to usenet. Get yourself a
    > newsreader and do it properly.
    >
    > > Do you mind looking at the /newbury.htm page again. I made that change
    > > but there is no way for me to know if it worked unless I install all
    > > the browsers.

    >
    > This page is now broken when using Internet Explorer versions 5.5, 6 and 7,
    > Netscape, Seamonkey, Firefox, Safari and Chrome. It is very broken when
    > using Opera.
    >
    > > It will be a temporary fix if it works and I'll apply it to the rest
    > > of the pages.

    >
    > You will not be able to fix that page until you stop using frontpage and get
    > rid of all that non-standard crap it put in there.

    Yeah. Install KompoZer from kompozer.net and start your page all over
    again. But read http://htmldog.com first. Use a text editor and do the
    tutorials, grab a copy of Crimson editor from crimsoneditor.com
    --
    Regards Chad. http://freewebdesignonline.org
    Chaddy2222, Feb 2, 2009
    #13
  14. Ed Mullen wrote:

    > wrote:
    >> http://www.toscanadayspanewbury.com/
    >>
    >> once you click this logo the top of the page (and probably every
    >> subsequent page since the format is an exact copy)

    >
    > It is not an issue of older browsers. Look at these screen captures
    > of /current/ browsers:

    <snip>

    Might as well add a screenshot from Opera...
    http://tekrider.net/usenet/opera-963.jpg

    While the source indicates FrontPlague, I seem to remember there was an
    MS Publisher template which included that 'footnote' section with
    useless vertical bar in the middle. But that was centuries ago...

    The header "<meta name" elements are incorrectly structured.

    I find the initial gateway page both annoying and useless. :)

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Windows
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Feb 2, 2009
    #14
  15. Bergamot Guest

    Ed Mullen wrote:
    >
    > As I increase text size in Firefox and SeaMonkey the container of the
    > top text does not increase. In IE7 it does.
    >
    > Why this is happening I can't say.


    I assume you are doing CTRL+, intending to increase the text size. CTRL+
    does a page zoom in IE7, not text zoom. Use the View menu to change just
    the text size in IE.

    --
    Berg
    Bergamot, Feb 2, 2009
    #15
  16. Andy Dingley Guest

    On 2 Feb, 01:52, wrote:

    > I don't particularly like coding.


    Then employ someone who does.

    You are trying to do something (or at least to make use of something)
    that's so technically difficult there simply isn't a good product
    available to do it with: purely WYSIWYG drag-and-drop design of web
    pages. You're also using a tool that's years old, thoroughly obsolete
    and was infamously broken when new. This just isn't going to work.

    What you'd like to do is to use a good tool to generate a good page
    with little effort, and that little would be spent in working through
    a GUI. You can't do this - there aren't any tools like that which are
    particularly good. Most good web designers, most people reading
    c.i.w.a.h, have stopped looking for them and set to doing it by hand-
    coding instead.

    As things currently stand, hand-coding is the way to build sites that
    work cross-browser and are accesible. Using the GUI tools means a
    compromise. It's not a terrible compromise - there are some open
    source tools that are usable for it (try KompoZer). If you think that
    paying money makes the toosl better, then you could even put up with M
    $oft Expression.

    Frontpage is execrable. Just don't go there.


    Before you start, you need to learn some web design. There are very
    few books on this that are any good, and almost no web sites. Two
    pretty good books are "Head First Web Design" and "Head First HTML
    with CSS & XHTML". You might argue that you shouldn't need to buy a
    book (which is cheap) before you dive into using your $hundreds worth
    of software. Well maybe not, but don't complain to us, we didn't
    charge you for the software and we didn't write FrontPage. We just
    build web sites that work, and we tell other people how to do it too.
    Some people even listen.

    There are issues in using your GUI design tool that aren't obvious.
    The Head First books cover most of them. So even if you're not
    planning to do any hand-coding, even if you're outsourcing it all to
    someone else, reading these two books will make you smarter at buying
    those services and will lead to a better web site.

    You should also read Joe Clark's web accessibility book (free on-line)
    Andy Dingley, Feb 3, 2009
    #16
  17. richard Guest

    On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 10:47:07 -0800 (PST), wrote:

    >Needless to say I'm new. I have designed a webapge using Frontpage
    >2003 and have viewed it with the latest Mozilla Firefox and IE. The
    >page looks OK to me. Other people tho insist that some text at the top
    >of the page appears large and overlayed with itself. I assume this is
    >due to their using older browsers at the very least and not refreshing
    >the page at the most. How do I make sure my website looks good with
    >some reasonable amount of varied and older browsers?



    Most of the time that happens due mainly to YOUR screen resolution.
    e.g. you have yours set to 1280x and the web page looks just fine to
    you.
    Then along comes some nitwit who refuses to upgrade to something more
    modern and whines and complains.
    I learned my lesson. When I do a web page I change my screen to at
    least 1024x so that I can see how it will look to others who might not
    have the newer monitors.

    Front Page, any version, was never a viable way to do a web page.
    While it may look good and function, coding is crap.

    Get yourself a decent editor. I use acehtml free and have never had a
    problem with it.

    Then as you work on your pages, run them through the validator at
    w3.org and correct the errors.
    http://validator.w3.org/
    Doing so will also help you to learn.
    richard, Feb 3, 2009
    #17
  18. richard Guest

    On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 20:21:39 -0800, David <>
    wrote:

    > wrote:
    >> Needless to say I'm new. I have designed a webapge using Frontpage
    >> 2003 and have viewed it with the latest Mozilla Firefox and IE. The
    >> page looks OK to me. Other people tho insist that some text at the top
    >> of the page appears large and overlayed with itself. I assume this is
    >> due to their using older browsers at the very least and not refreshing
    >> the page at the most. How do I make sure my website looks good with
    >> some reasonable amount of varied and older browsers?

    >
    >
    >It is messed up on my system and I am running Firefox 3.0.5 so it is not
    >older browsers causing your problem. Have a look for yourself.
    >http://dm-enterprises.net/toscana.jpg


    Really? I use ff 2.

    http://sample.1littleworld.com/spa1.jpg

    screen set to 1024x768.

    Might have to do with your browser settings.
    Lower the text point size.
    richard, Feb 3, 2009
    #18
  19. richard wrote:

    > Really? I use ff 2.


    Why? FF2 ended support last year?

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Feb 3, 2009
    #19
  20. richard wrote:

    > I learned my lesson. When I do a web page I change my screen to at
    > least 1024x so that I can see how it will look to others who might
    > not have the newer monitors.


    Why don't you just change the size of your browser window?

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Windows
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Feb 3, 2009
    #20
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