Text size

H

Helen

I was hoping someone can help me.

OK, I am in the process of redesigning my website and I've noticed that in
firefox the text is slightly bigger then in IE, nothing major or anything
but would prefer the text to be the exact same size in both. I use the
normal html <font size=1> text </font>. Can anyone help?
 
B

Barbara de Zoete

I was hoping someone can help me.

OK, I am in the process of redesigning my website and I've noticed that in
firefox the text is slightly bigger then in IE, nothing major or anything
but would prefer the text to be the exact same size in both. I use the
normal html <font size=1> text </font>. Can anyone help?

In IE you can either use [Ctrl]+scroll to size the text up or down, or use the
menu [view > fontsize]. In FF you can use the [Ctrl]+scroll too to resize the
text, or use the menu [view > text-size].

No, that is not a joke. You needn't set a font size at all, or leave it at 100%.
Your visitor, using one browser at the time and not noticing anything different
between various browsers anyway, knows what font size is good for reading
comfortable from his/her screen at his/her given browsing situation. If you
prefer the fonts to be equal in those two browsers (there are many more) use
your browser setting to achieve that. You can't achieve it through markup
(alone).


--
,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
| weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
| webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
|zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
`-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
 
D

David Dorward

Helen said:
OK, I am in the process of redesigning my website and I've noticed that in
firefox the text is slightly bigger then in IE

You probably have your Firefox font size preference set differently to your
Internet Explorer font size preference. (FF doesn't provice rather more
fine grained control over font size).
I use the normal html <font size=1> text </font>.

You should avoid that, its been deprecated (in favour of CSS) for a very
long time. Its also tiny (to the point of being unreadable for many
people). Many people consider that, generally at least, body[1] text should
be left at whatever preference the user has set with some unimportant
content reduced to perhaps 75% of that.

[1] In the traditional sense, not the <body> element sense
 
H

Helen

It's ok, I got it sorted. Instead of the <font size=1> you put <font
style="font-size:9px"> - which seems to be working.

Barbara de Zoete said:
I was hoping someone can help me.

OK, I am in the process of redesigning my website and I've noticed that
in
firefox the text is slightly bigger then in IE, nothing major or anything
but would prefer the text to be the exact same size in both. I use the
normal html <font size=1> text </font>. Can anyone help?

In IE you can either use [Ctrl]+scroll to size the text up or down, or use
the menu [view > fontsize]. In FF you can use the [Ctrl]+scroll too to
resize the text, or use the menu [view > text-size].

No, that is not a joke. You needn't set a font size at all, or leave it at
100%. Your visitor, using one browser at the time and not noticing
anything different between various browsers anyway, knows what font size
is good for reading comfortable from his/her screen at his/her given
browsing situation. If you prefer the fonts to be equal in those two
browsers (there are many more) use your browser setting to achieve that.
You can't achieve it through markup (alone).


--
,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
| weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
| webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
|zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
`-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
 
P

PeterMcC

Helen wrote in
It's ok, I got it sorted. Instead of the <font size=1> you put <font
style="font-size:9px"> - which seems to be working.

That means that anyone who has difficulty reading 9px on a hi-res screen,
like myself, can't resize it in IE - usually not considered to be a good
idea.
 
B

Barbara de Zoete

[ Please quote properly. Don't toppost, cut out what you don't reply to, quote
what you do reply to, attribute that quote and reply underneath. Fixed this
once. ]


[ Q: wanting to set a font size, so it looks the samen in IE and FF
A: use browser setting to achieve that ]
It's ok, I got it sorted. Instead of the <font size=1> you put <font
style="font-size:9px"> - which seems to be working.

That is a bad choice in many ways:
- using depricated markup (the font element);
- using fixed font size;
- using a way too small font size.

Google this group (and alt.html.critique, comp.infosystems.www.authoting.*) for
numerous discussions on these topics and find out why you are taking a wrong
direction with this.

Please delete the sinature block of the message you reply to if your newsclient
doesn't do that for you.


--
,-- --<--@ -- PretLetters: 'woest wyf', met vele interesses: ----------.
| weblog | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/_private/weblog.html |
| webontwerp | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/webontwerp.html |
|zweefvliegen | http://home.wanadoo.nl/b.de.zoete/html/vliegen.html |
`-------------------------------------------------- --<--@ ------------'
 
H

Helen

It's the only way I can get the text to be the same in both FireFox and IE
without having to keep changing the size of the text in firefox, which also
then means that i'll have to change it when I go to another site, something
that is a major pain in the arse and why I have some sites open only in IE.
I'm using the Veranda font so I think that is also making the text a bit
bigger in FireFox too.
 
P

PeterMcC

Helen wrote in
It's the only way I can get the text to be the same in both FireFox
and IE without having to keep changing the size of the text in
firefox, which also then means that i'll have to change it when I go
to another site, something that is a major pain in the arse and why I
have some sites open only in IE. I'm using the Veranda font so I
think that is also making the text a bit bigger in FireFox too.

It seems to me, though you may see it otherwise, that the biggest pain is
that people won't be able to read your text.

Verdana is a poor choice as well, I'm afraid.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html
 
D

David Dorward

Helen wrote:

Please do NOT top post.
http://www.html-faq.com/etiquette/?toppost
It's the only way I can get the text to be the same in both FireFox and IE

Why does the font size need to be the same in Firefox and IE?

Its the web, and all you can provide are presentation HINTS. Control is in
the hands on the user, not the content author, and attempts to wrest it
away are only going to cause more problems then they solve.

Embrace the media, don't try to fight its strengths.
 
A

Arne

Once said:
It's the only way I can get the text to be the same in both FireFox and IE
without having to keep changing the size of the text in firefox, which also
then means that i'll have to change it when I go to another site, something
that is a major pain in the arse and why I have some sites open only in IE.
I'm using the Veranda font so I think that is also making the text a bit
bigger in FireFox too.

So the text to be the same in both is more important than the content
and the visitors to be able to read the content?

You think changing font size in your browser is a major pain. What do
you think then the visitors think when they can't read the tiny text
and can't change the size even if they want to?

Think about what makes it so hard. Using Verdana can be one reason,
using a tiny font size may be an other. I have no problems make the
text look the same size in IE and Mozilla / Firefox.

Font size in percent (100% = browsers original size) as default, font
Arial or whatever most common (if any = leave it to the browser
default) but not Verdana, may make the efforts easier.

Note that I'm making an exeption when replying to your post. I'm doing
it of interest, but only once. So please bottompost and cut out what
you don't reply to, in the future.

--
/Arne
Now killing all top posters and posters who don't quote
* How to post: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/brox.html
* From Google: http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/
-------------------------------------------------------------
 
N

Nick Theodorakis

It's ok, I got it sorted. Instead of the <font size=1> you put <font
style="font-size:9px"> - which seems to be working.

It won't work with me, because for my settings in Mozilla, I have the
minimum font size set at 12 pixels.

Nick
 
N

Neredbojias

With neither quill nor qualm, Helen quothed:
It's the only way I can get the text to be the same in both FireFox and IE
without having to keep changing the size of the text in firefox, which also
then means that i'll have to change it when I go to another site, something
that is a major pain in the arse and why I have some sites open only in IE.

It sounds like your designs are vulnerable to text-size variations -
which isn't good design.
I'm using the Veranda font so I think that is also making the text a bit
bigger in FireFox too.

Many people gripe about Verdana for obscure reasons, although I like it.
However, it probably isn't the font most apt for a text-size sensitive
page. You might want to try "Trebuchet MS".
 
A

Alan J. Flavell

Many people gripe about Verdana for obscure reasons,

There are people (of which I'm one) who advise against including it in
author stylesheets for body text, for reasons which are clearly stated
(sbpoley's page on the topic states them well, IMHO). If you disagree
with them, you're entirely free to explain why. Murmuring about
"obscure reasons" doesn't seem very honest to me.
although I like it.

I'm sure Verdana is a fine font for some purposes: feel entirely free
to set it as your browser default if you wish, or even to force it via
your user stylesheet instead of what the author is proposing. The
advice, however, remains: not to propose it for body text in an author
stylesheet.

best
 
N

Neredbojias

With neither quill nor qualm, Alan J. Flavell quothed:
There are people (of which I'm one) who advise against including it in
author stylesheets for body text, for reasons which are clearly stated
(sbpoley's page on the topic states them well, IMHO). If you disagree
with them, you're entirely free to explain why. Murmuring about
"obscure reasons" doesn't seem very honest to me.

Poley's main argument is that Verdana is slightly larger than the
average font at the same size-setting. So big deal. Maybe the author
wants his/her font to be slightly larger for improved readability,
which, indeed, the font provides.

Poley implies that authors are apt to specify a smaller css font-size
setting to compensate for Verdana's largesse over, say, Arial. Gee
whiz, if that's the only _mistake_ an author makes, he's doing quite
well on the whole. Anything can be abused by improper usage.

In addition, Poley states that the only common font he knows of which
doesn't have digits of the same width is "Georgia" (-in refuting a
reason to use Verdana.) While this may be true, the visible part of a
thin digit does not always align well with that of a thicker digit and
Verdana's greater girth helps alleviate this discrepancy.
I'm sure Verdana is a fine font for some purposes: feel entirely free
to set it as your browser default if you wish, or even to force it via
your user stylesheet instead of what the author is proposing.

I'm not suggesting either of those options. I'm just saying that
Verdana seems a good font to me for some purposes. I like to use it for
logos and some headings.
The
advice, however, remains: not to propose it for body text in an author
stylesheet.

In general, probably not. However, I wouldn't hesitate to use it if the
document were overwhelmingly textual material, such as a story or manual
calculated to test one's tedium.

Same.
 
L

Luigi Donatello Asero

Neredbojias said:
With neither quill nor qualm, Alan J. Flavell quothed:


Poley's main argument is that Verdana is slightly larger than the
average font at the same size-setting. So big deal. Maybe the author
wants his/her font to be slightly larger for improved readability,
which, indeed, the font provides.

Poley implies that authors are apt to specify a smaller css font-size
setting to compensate for Verdana's largesse over, say, Arial. Gee
whiz, if that's the only _mistake_ an author makes, he's doing quite
well on the whole. Anything can be abused by improper usage.

In addition, Poley states that the only common font he knows of which
doesn't have digits of the same width is "Georgia" (-in refuting a
reason to use Verdana.) While this may be true, the visible part of a
thin digit does not always align well with that of a thicker digit and
Verdana's greater girth helps alleviate this discrepancy.

I'm not suggesting either of those options. I'm just saying that
Verdana seems a good font to me for some purposes. I like to use it for
logos and some headings.


In general, probably not. However, I wouldn't hesitate to use it if the
document were overwhelmingly textual material, such as a story or manual
calculated to test one's tedium.

Same.

--


Did anybody suggest in the past in this NG that it would not be wise to
style the fonts because the configuration can be overriden by users´
browsers?

--
Luigi Donatello Asero
(sono italiano ma vivo in Svezia)
(Ñ Ð¸Ñ‚Ð°Ð»ÑŒÑнец но Ñ Ð¶Ð¸Ð²Ñƒ в Швеции )
(我是 æ„大利人 , 但是 我 ä½ åœ¨ ç‘žå…¸)
(minä olen Italian kansalainen, mutta minä asun Ruotsissa)
(yo soy italiano mas vivo en Suecia)
(je suis italien mais j'habite en Suède)
(ich bin Italiener aber ich lebe in Schweden)
https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/de/willkommen.php
 
D

dorayme

From: "Luigi Donatello Asero said:
Did anybody suggest in the past in this NG that it would not be wise to
style the fonts because the configuration can be overriden by users´
browsers?


Best not to rely heavily on particular fonts or sizes. If a
website starts looking ghastly because a user has not got a
particular specified font or needs it at a different size to the
one specified then so much worse for the website design. It is
instructive to try your hand at simply not specifying a font
family at all (besides the generic ones like 'sans-serif'...)

To do the best job possible, it helps to have some sort of idea
of what is out there: probably a big cluster of folk on 15" to
19" screens with many of the fonts you have, smaller clusters of
people on other screens or readers, some with eyesight needs
quite different to yours and so on... If you make it nice for a
lot of folk, and useable (to extract important info) for the
rest, then you will do well...
 
A

Arne

Once said:
Poley's main argument is that Verdana is slightly larger than the
average font at the same size-setting. So big deal. Maybe the author
wants his/her font to be slightly larger for improved readability,
which, indeed, the font provides.

So why not use Arial with 10-11px if size in pixels necessarily want
to be used, insted of Verdana 9px.

Poley implies that authors are apt to specify a smaller css font-size
setting to compensate for Verdana's largesse over, say, Arial. Gee
whiz, if that's the only _mistake_ an author makes, he's doing quite
well on the whole. Anything can be abused by improper usage.

Anything can be abused by improper usage, thank's to IE that allow
authors to "take over" the users browser in many ways. And is also
very happy to accept nasty scripts from e.g. ActiveX and VBscript that
a evil author put on the web. Fortunately other browsers can't be abused.

--
/Arne
Now killing all top posters and posters who don't quote
* How to post: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/brox.html
* From Google: http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/
-------------------------------------------------------------
 
N

Neredbojias

With neither quill nor qualm, Luigi Donatello Asero quothed:
Did anybody suggest in the past in this NG that it would not be wise to
style the fonts because the configuration can be overriden by users´
browsers?

The law of averages strongly suggests "Yes." But there's nothing wrong
with setting a font as long as it's done in the spirit of styling and
the page works well with any (normal) font.
 
N

Neredbojias

With neither quill nor qualm, Arne quothed:
So why not use Arial with 10-11px if size in pixels necessarily want
to be used, insted of Verdana 9px.

The look. Verdana has a fuller, blockier look than Arial which can be
preferable at times and is also more desirable from the accessibility
standpoint.
Anything can be abused by improper usage, thank's to IE that allow
authors to "take over" the users browser in many ways. And is also
very happy to accept nasty scripts from e.g. ActiveX and VBscript that
a evil author put on the web. Fortunately other browsers can't be abused.

Yes, MS was probably not as astute as it could have been in the area of
security, but that's business. I don't think BG is losing any sleep
over it.
 
J

JDS

It's the only way I can get the text to be the same in both FireFox and IE

Why is this so important to you?

It sounds like you are a print designer trying to make way into the more
fluid and less controllable realm of web design. Web design requires
a different approach in some respects than print design.
 

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