The chart of comp.lang.c

[santosh]

IDEs dedicated to C would, IMO, be on topic here. Why? Because C
programmers live here. They know. Their advice is important and
valuable. It would be selfish to deprive people of your knowledge.

Going by that logic, every tool used around C programming could become
topical here. Don't you think the group is likely to become chaotic to the
point of unuseability? The volume is already high enough.

 

[Richard]

Going by that logic, every tool used around C programming could become
topical here. Don't you think the group is likely to become chaotic to the
point of unuseability? The volume is already high enough.

Actually, no it isn't.

The fact is that we have certain tools called News Readers. Admittedly
my News reader of choice is more powerful than most but its easy enough
to ignore threads in most I would have though?

This group is a rich resource of C programmers. These programmers use C
tools. The odd thread comparing each programmers findings in different
tools and IDEs would be very welcome. I can certainly not think of any
group more suitable for C programmers to do just that.

I do believe in keeping things relatively "On Topic", but to be too anal
about it is simply ridiculous.

It would certainly seem I am not alone in this view.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

jacob navia said:

Richard wrote:


Exactly.
Most developers now use IDEs, and that issue is completely ignored.

We'll let "most" pass, since its truth or otherwise is irrelevant here,
and simply point out that many developers drive to work, but that
doesn't mean cars are topical here. Many developers sit at a desk, but
that doesn't make furniture topical here. Many developers like there to
be good background illumination in their offices, but that doesn't make
lightbulbs topical here.

If you want to talk about IDEs, use the newsgroups where they are
topical. If there aren't any, form one.

 

[Peter J. Holzer]

No it's not. That's topical in the groups for those compilers.

Depends on what the discussion is about. There are a lot of aspects
about extensions which can be discussed independently of the specific
compiler (e.g., how the extension fits into the general design of C,
whether it be a useful extension to other compilers on different
platforms, etc.), which would be more topical here than in a
compiler-specific group. I would agree that it is off-topic in
comp.std.c, unless the discussion turns to the question of whether a
specific extension should be included in a future standard.

hp

 

[Richard]

jacob navia said:


We'll let "most" pass, since its truth or otherwise is irrelevant here,
and simply point out that many developers drive to work, but that
doesn't mean cars are topical here.

What a ridiculous analogy. He doesn't DO his work in the car or with his
car. He is also not a Car expert. If the newsgroup was dedicated to
working environments and he DID do his work in his car, would you send
him to a car NG instead as he extolled the virtues of the fold down
seats, built in 19" monitor, keyboard tray and wireless antenna?

If you want to talk about IDEs, use the newsgroups where they are
topical. If there aren't any, form one.

C IDEs are topical in a group dedicated to C programming. Regardless of
what you say. Common sense sometimes helps. The IDE is the single most
important interface for many people TO the language. The IDE can provide
help WITH the C language. The IDE can be used to toggle on or off
pedantic warnings, ISO modes etc. An IDE which helps people or can
advise them/guide them on producing portable C is a plus. The link is so
scarily obvious that I am scared that you have an issue with it.

Yes, yes, I know you have lots of medals for posting here for ages and
how you once reformatted your Hard Drive with an illegal memory access
and how your toaster stabbed you with a sword when you compiled and ran
"i=i++" but really.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Richard said:

C IDEs are topical in a group dedicated to C programming.

No, but they would certainly be topical in a group dedicated to C IDEs.

 

[Richard]

Richard said:


No, but they would certainly be topical in a group dedicated to C
IDEs.

And how many good C programmers would hang out there?

The point is that *here* there are a host of C programmers with a ton
of experience and a few sage words from them every now and again about
which tools help them the most could save a nOOb a lot of pain.

 

[Richard Heathfield]

Richard said:

And how many good C programmers would hang out there?

If the topic of C IDEs is as fascinating to good C programmers as you
seem to think, then plenty would make the trip. And if it is not, then
there is no point trying to force them to talk about C IDEs here in
comp.lang.c, is there?

The point is that *here* there are a host of C programmers with a ton
of experience and a few sage words from them every now and again about
which tools help them the most could save a nOOb a lot of pain.

The point is that you can't force people to talk about stuff they don't
want to talk about. If I wanted to talk about C IDEs, I'd find a
newsgroup where they were topical. Since I find them a terribly dull
subject, I don't bother looking for such a group.

 

[Malcolm McLean]

Depends on what the discussion is about. There are a lot of aspects
about extensions which can be discussed independently of the specific
compiler (e.g., how the extension fits into the general design of C,
whether it be a useful extension to other compilers on different
platforms, etc.), which would be more topical here than in a
compiler-specific group. I would agree that it is off-topic in
comp.std.c, unless the discussion turns to the question of whether a
specific extension should be included in a future standard.

But normally if you implement something like, say, exceptions or
arbitrary-sized bitfields, you'd want it to be incorporated in a future
standard.
If you don't it will be something very narrow, like say fuzzy logic ops in
place of the standard ones, but that would go in a newsgroup dealing with
AI, fuzzy programming, machine learning type problems.

 

[Marco]

In general, I just ignore topics that are off-topic but valid
elsewhere or I re-direct the poster. No response usually is the best
indicator that the topic is of no interest to the group.

But I would like to see pure spam messages removed ASAP. I'm not sure
'open' newsgroups can do that. I use google groups to read the
newsgroups.

 

[santosh]

Marco wrote:

[ ... ]

But I would like to see pure spam messages removed ASAP. I'm not sure
'open' newsgroups can do that. I use google groups to read the
newsgroups.

You're right. Spam removal needs moderation.

 

[Serve Lau]

IDEs dedicated to C would, IMO, be on topic here. Why? Because C
programmers live here. They know. Their advice is important and
valuable. It would be selfish to deprive people of your knowledge.

I agree with you, but I wonder what the use is of a thread like this. Will
things ever change? How many people have to agree on this before it will
change?

 

[Richard]

I agree with you, but I wonder what the use is of a thread like this. Will
things ever change? How many people have to agree on this before it will
change?

This thread won't change anything in the views of the core here.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

This thread won't change anything in the views of the core here.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Default User]

In general, I just ignore topics that are off-topic but valid
elsewhere or I re-direct the poster. No response usually is the best
indicator that the topic is of no interest to the group.

I don't agree. That often results in the person posting it again.

But I would like to see pure spam messages removed ASAP. I'm not sure
'open' newsgroups can do that. I use google groups to read the
newsgroups.

They can't. There is no there there. A newsgroup is a distributed
entity, so with no centralized repository for messages, it's nearly
impossible. Besides, who decides what is spam and what isn't?

Some indivdual news services do spam filtering on their particular
server's messages. So I may not see a message that you did, because NIN
removed it (or refused it or whatever).




Brian

 

[Walter Roberson]

The fact is that we have certain tools called News Readers. Admittedly
my News reader of choice is more powerful than most but its easy enough
to ignore threads in most I would have though?

No, there are a lot of limitations on newsreaders. For example a
lot of people (around Usenet) use Outlook Express because that's
what comes with Windows; the "ignore thread" facilities do not appear
to allow for even simple regular expressions.

I've been using Thunderbird a bit lately as it has -some- useful
facilities -- but the "message filter" facilities do not work on
newsgroups at all.

My normal newsreader of choice is trn, which is relatively flexible
as such things go. Unfortunately a lot of people do not clearly mark
the category of their message in the Subject or Keywords headings,
so in order to automatically skip the IDE threads, I would have to
add a filter line which ended up reading in the entire article and
looked for certain patterns typical of such discussions -- not
very efficient at all, and prone to both overmatching and undermatching.

To ignore threads by content non-trivially pretty much requires a bit of AI,
or natural language analysis.

This group is a rich resource of C programmers. These programmers use C
tools. The odd thread comparing each programmers findings in different
tools and IDEs would be very welcome. I can certainly not think of any
group more suitable for C programmers to do just that.

What's to discuss that wouldn't end up involving a lot of platform
dependancies or a lot of religious wars akin to "vi vs emacs"?

I could see perhaps a plain -list- of available cross-platform IDE's
together with pointers to where to obtain them and where to discuss
them, but nosing around the net a bit, it seems to me highly likely
that as soon as you start into comparing IDE's, you are going to
end up in Windows-IDE threads (of little or no use to non-Windows people,
and which thus belong on Windows programming newsgroups),
and Linux IDE threads (possibly of some use for Unix-like systems, but
probably of little use for Windows.) Unless you can come up with
a significant number of -useful- cross-platform IDEs, I predict
a rapid degeneration into platform specificity of little topicality.

It would certainly seem I am not alone in this view.

If you so believe, then put together a formal proposal for a
-new- newsgroup, discuss it a bit, and when the rough edges have
been polished off, submit it for new newsgroup consideration.
I've yet to see anyone post a proposed topicality list that didn't
come down to "I don't know what comp.lang.c is about, but I know
off-topic material when I see it."

 

[Richard]

No, there are a lot of limitations on newsreaders. For example a
lot of people (around Usenet) use Outlook Express because that's
what comes with Windows; the "ignore thread" facilities do not appear
to allow for even simple regular expressions.

I've been using Thunderbird a bit lately as it has -some- useful
facilities -- but the "message filter" facilities do not work on
newsgroups at all.

My normal newsreader of choice is trn, which is relatively flexible
as such things go. Unfortunately a lot of people do not clearly mark
the category of their message in the Subject or Keywords headings,
so in order to automatically skip the IDE threads, I would have to
add a filter line which ended up reading in the entire article and
looked for certain patterns typical of such discussions -- not
very efficient at all, and prone to both overmatching and undermatching.

To ignore threads by content non-trivially pretty much requires a bit of AI,
or natural language analysis.



What's to discuss that wouldn't end up involving a lot of platform
dependancies or a lot of religious wars akin to "vi vs emacs"?

I could see perhaps a plain -list- of available cross-platform IDE's
together with pointers to where to obtain them and where to discuss
them, but nosing around the net a bit, it seems to me highly likely
that as soon as you start into comparing IDE's, you are going to
end up in Windows-IDE threads (of little or no use to non-Windows people,
and which thus belong on Windows programming newsgroups),
and Linux IDE threads (possibly of some use for Unix-like systems, but
probably of little use for Windows.) Unless you can come up with
a significant number of -useful- cross-platform IDEs, I predict
a rapid degeneration into platform specificity of little topicality.



If you so believe, then put together a formal proposal for a
-new- newsgroup, discuss it a bit, and when the rough edges have
been polished off, submit it for new newsgroup consideration.
I've yet to see anyone post a proposed topicality list that didn't
come down to "I don't know what comp.lang.c is about, but I know
off-topic material when I see it."

You seem to miss the point. It doesn't need a new NG. Here is where the
C programmers are. C programmers wont necessarily sign up to an IDE
group.

Look, I'm not advocating deluges of IDE related posts. I'm just saying
that I for one would gladly respond to anyone who posted here asking for
C programmer's conclusions on the current batch of C IDEs which are
knocking about. It tends to stay in one thread. Is not so
evil. Certainly I would sooner give my thoughts on the subject before I
went rushing in with "OT" and "IDE NG is down the corridor on the left"
and the rest of the self absorbed twaddle that goes on in here.

 

[Kenny McCormack]

Look, I'm not advocating deluges of IDE related posts. I'm just saying
that I for one would gladly respond to anyone who posted here asking for
C programmer's conclusions on the current batch of C IDEs which are
knocking about. It tends to stay in one thread. Is not so
evil. Certainly I would sooner give my thoughts on the subject before I
went rushing in with "OT" and "IDE NG is down the corridor on the left"
and the rest of the self absorbed twaddle that goes on in here.[/QUOTE]

But then again, you're not a severely emotionally crippled freak whose
mother kicked you to the curb at an early age.

What I find particularlly interesting is how much these freaks have in
common with political conservatives (a parallel I've raised in other
threads) - and, in particular, how terrified they seem to be that we
want to "take their blanky away".

 

[Malcolm McLean]

What I find particularlly interesting is how much these freaks have in
common with political conservatives (a parallel I've raised in other
threads) - and, in particular, how terrified they seem to be that we
want to "take their blanky away".

It would surprising if you didn't have at least 50% Republicans / Tories on
the newsgroup.

 

[Serve Lau]

I like the forum found at
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/

You can ask all kinds of question only a little related to C/C++.
theres a network programming section, C, C++, linux, games etc. even C#
The only thing I dont like there is that the level of questions/disucssions
is often a bit low. And yes, you see the same kind of people there answering
the same 'i=i++' question year after year. Everybody his own hobby I guess