The compatible application

[Brett]

Designing a website that is compatible with a wide range of browsers running
on various platforms, taking into considering how antivirus and firewalls
will interact with the browser is extremely challenging. I see these
challenges only increasing as we move forward. Why is it that the browser
has so many problems and an EXE (VB) app doesn't?

They both run in one process yet the EXE:
- has more functionality
- isn't flagged by a firewall (assuming port 80 is used), antivirus, popup
blocker
- will work even if JS is turned off
- no compatibilty issues with DHTML
- is compatible overall with platform it is compiled on

If I'm looking to created a very function application, would compiling an
EXE be better than trying to use Flash, DHTML, JS, etc in a web browser (IE
on Windows/Mac)? Meaning, I'll avoid all the issues browsers continuously
run into. The EXE will still connect to an online database behind the
scenes.

Thanks,
Brett

 

[rf]

Brett wrote

If I'm looking to created a very function application, would compiling an
EXE be better than trying to use Flash, DHTML, JS, etc in a web browser

Are you expecting WWW users to use this exe instead of a browser or is this
for a controlled intranet application. The answers differ very greatly.

 

[brucie]

In alt.html Brett said:

If I'm looking to created a very function application

http://curl.com/ or http://python.org/

 

[Brett]

Brett wrote



Are you expecting WWW users to use this exe instead of a browser or is
this
for a controlled intranet application. The answers differ very greatly.

The users are known and trained. They will be using it across the WWW.

Brett

 

[SpaceGirl]

Designing a website that is compatible with a wide range of browsers running
on various platforms, taking into considering how antivirus and firewalls
will interact with the browser is extremely challenging.

No it's not. It's actually very straight forwards.

I see these
challenges only increasing as we move forward.

It'll only get easier as browsers become more secure and users become
more aware of how to maintain secure connections (whether they realise
it or not).

Why is it that the browser
has so many problems and an EXE (VB) app doesn't?

Popularity. Put a given .exe file to 1/2 the population of the planet
and see how long it remains secure. Days I'd imagine.

They both run in one process yet the EXE:

No, they dont. They are doing a lot of things; script engines, rendering
engines (different versions of html, js, css, xml etc) and different
protocols, different security models... and then all the stuff it has to
do on the host platform (drawing the page via something like GDI+, or
playing video via DirectX, for example).

- has more functionality
- isn't flagged by a firewall (assuming port 80 is used), antivirus, popup
blocker
- will work even if JS is turned off
- no compatibilty issues with DHTML
- is compatible overall with platform it is compiled on

? Application, or web browser?

If I'm looking to created a very function application, would compiling an
EXE be better than trying to use Flash, DHTML, JS, etc in a web browser (IE
on Windows/Mac)? Meaning, I'll avoid all the issues browsers continuously
run into. The EXE will still connect to an online database behind the
scenes.

YOu'd have to write your own protocol stack, or write something that
talks to TCP/IP. Unfortunatly TCP/IP is inherantly insecure. You have no
choice - the Internet is TCP/IP. Without getting everyone on the planet,
and all the hubs, servers and network cards in every machine everywhere
being changed you HAVE to use this protocol or your traffic simply wont
get beyond the end of your machines network / modem cable.

Thanks,
Brett

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[Wÿrm]

- isn't flagged by a firewall (assuming port 80 is used)

If application on 1st run do not cause firewall (assuming software firewall)
to notify something is trying to access port 80, that firewall is hopelessly
broken and should not be used at all. Security such firewall would be
offering would be par with broken condom...

 

[Jeffrey Silverman]

The users are known and trained. They will be using it across the WWW.

Brett

You may want to consider writing a Java app. Java can be embedded in a
browser or run as a separate stand-alone app, can be run on multiple
platforms, and has all the functionality and programmatic richness of C++.

 

[mbstevens]

Designing a website that is compatible with a wide range of browsers
running on various platforms, taking into considering how antivirus and
firewalls
will interact with the browser is extremely challenging. I see these
challenges only increasing as we move forward. Why is it that the browser
has so many problems and an EXE (VB) app doesn't?

They both run in one process yet the EXE:
- has more functionality
- isn't flagged by a firewall (assuming port 80 is used), antivirus, popup
blocker
- will work even if JS is turned off
- no compatibilty issues with DHTML
- is compatible overall with platform it is compiled on

If I'm looking to created a very function application, would compiling an
EXE be better than trying to use Flash, DHTML, JS, etc in a web browser
(IE
on Windows/Mac)? Meaning, I'll avoid all the issues browsers continuously
run into. The EXE will still connect to an online database behind the
scenes.

Thanks,
Brett

SOAP/XML-RPC is worth investigating.

 

[Brett]

You may want to consider writing a Java app. Java can be embedded in a
browser or run as a separate stand-alone app, can be run on multiple
platforms, and has all the functionality and programmatic richness of C++.

--
Jeffrey D. Silverman | (e-mail address removed)
Website | http://www.newtnotes.com

Drop "PANTS" to reply by email

I'm only considering a Windows based app. The Java app will take to long to
develop and most of the users are Windows based.

Thanks,
Brett

 

[SpaceGirl]

You may want to consider writing a Java app. Java can be embedded in a
browser or run as a separate stand-alone app, can be run on multiple
platforms, and has all the functionality and programmatic richness of C++.

Assuming the end user has Java installed. Which not many have.

How about using Flash. You can embed data connections in it - use an XML
backend, or jRun or any other J2EE backend to drive a secure
multi-platform Flash XML front end. Most people have Flash. More than
have Java by far.

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[SpaceGirl]

I'm only considering a Windows based app. The Java app will take to long to
develop and most of the users are Windows based.

Thanks,
Brett

Java is multi-platform - the platform is actually irrelevant. But you do
need the runtime, which not many people bother installing these days.
You could use Flash (either .swf embedded on a page, or stand-alone .exe
file).

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[rf]

Brett

I'm only considering a Windows based app. The Java app will take to long to
develop and most of the users are Windows based.

Hmmm.

Java is not OS dependent. It is a browser plugin.

 

[SpaceGirl]

Brett




Hmmm.

Java is not OS dependent. It is a browser plugin.

It's not even that... it's a virtual machine. It doesn't even need a
browser. Several recent computer games have been written in Java too -
they dont run in browser windows

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[rf]

SpaceGirl wrote

It's not even that... it's a virtual machine. It doesn't even need a
browser. Several recent computer games have been written in Java too -
they dont run in browser windows

Correct.

I forgot about that, never having played with java.

I now recall that I have java as part of my development platforrm. IIRC it's
called j++, along with C++, C#, and a few others I can't recall at the
moment

 

[SpaceGirl]

SpaceGirl wrote




Correct.

I forgot about that, never having played with java.

I now recall that I have java as part of my development platforrm. IIRC it's
called j++, along with C++, C#, and a few others I can't recall at the
moment

Visual Studio.net? C#, C#.net, VB.net, ASP.net, J++, J++.net, C++, C...
I've got the box next to my desk at home... hopeless really, since I
hate programming, and the only languages I know are asp3 and javascript,
and I'm working for a client who exclusively uses JSTL/JSP and Java
applications

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[rf]

Visual Studio.net? C#, C#.net, VB.net, ASP.net, J++, J++.net, C++, C...

Yep. That's the one.

I've got the box next to my desk at home...

I don't have a box. I unfortunately have to subscribe to MSDN professional.
Costs a thousand a year but I get every operating system and all of the
development tools in unmarked cardboard sleves, posted to me monthly. Most
of them I ignore.

hopeless really, since I
hate programming,

All *real* programmers hate programming. It's part of the job description.

and the only languages I know are asp3 and javascript,

Hmmm. I've lost count of the ones I know. I even think I could still read,
and perhaps write <shudder>COBOL</shudder>. Hmmm. Come to think of it I
think I used to *BE* a COBOL programmer about 25 years or so ago :-(

You really should get into C#. It's much better than B flat

and I'm working for a client who exclusively uses JSTL/JSP and Java
applications

The IT world would work much better if it was devoid of such things as
clients...

 

[SpaceGirl]

Hmmm. I've lost count of the ones I know. I even think I could still read,
and perhaps write <shudder>COBOL</shudder>. Hmmm. Come to think of it I
think I used to *BE* a COBOL programmer about 25 years or so ago :-(

You really should get into C#. It's much better than B flat

I'm a designer though, not a programmer. I only code when I really have
to, and then it takes me a while.

The IT world would work much better if it was devoid of such things as
clients...

That's for sure. I'd be a lot hungrier tho.

--


x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #

 

[rf]

rf wrote:

I'm a designer though, not a programmer. I only code when I really have
to, and then it takes me a while.

What a refreshing viewpoint. A designer who really does not like to 'code'.

If only I had a few such as you when I looked after the Big Computer in that
past life. So many times the "designers" would insist that they knew how to
do it themselves, the 'code' that is. It's astounding how well they were
able to stuff it right up. Then again I made lots of $s fixing it all up
for them

These days I sit in my [own] little computer room watching the crows fly
past, cutting code really hard and fast but trying really hard to think up
the new Great Design.

Hey, maybe we could colaborate

 

[Jeffrey Silverman]

I'm only considering a Windows based app. The Java app will take to long to
develop and most of the users are Windows based.

Thanks,
Brett

A Java app should take no longer to develop than a C++-based .exe
application.

A Java app will work on windows AND every other platform/OS in the real
world.

Thus, a Java app *is* a Windows-based app. Running a java application is
indistinguishable from running a native .exe application. (With minor
exceptions as far as the GUI/interface is concerned -- but these
exceptions can be eliminated)

How many people already have the Java runtime installed? Well, maybe it
doesn't matter because everyone who needs to run this app will install it.

Of course, all of this is moot if (1) you have no Java programmer
available and (2) you *do* have a C++ programmer. If these are true, just
do it in C++, I guess.

later...

 

[Spartanicus]

A Java app will work on windows AND every other platform/OS in the real
world.

A Java app *may* work, client side Java support is not great, it may be
present on the client system but not enabled in the UA. I for one refuse
to allow Java on my system.