The DataSource Control

Discussion in 'ASP .Net Web Controls' started by Angel, Jan 27, 2008.

  1. Angel

    Angel Guest

    One claim made of aids in rapid application development but all I see is
    people having trouble with it and asking lot's of questions about it. I do
    not claim that these controls are not useful but they are not certainly the
    end game. In fact, I consider it only one more tool in the toolbox and not
    necessarily all that significant.

    I can write application just as rapidly and with less constrains using code.
    It takes me just three lines of code to bind my databound controls and I am
    in full control of what is going on.

    I just help someone on this forum which had an issue which, in my opinion,
    would not happen if the developer had use code and learned what they were
    doing in the first place. The danger with these so-called RAD controls is
    that they tend to hide too much. Also make decision that limit how and what I
    can do. Invariably the developer ends up writing tons of work-around code
    (some necessary and some unnecessary) in order to coarse the controls to
    behave or be compatible with their existing business logic or other
    interfaces.

    It has to make you wonder… We should be pushing knowledge not quick
    solutions! Leave the Easy button to those other guys.

    So my question is – How exactly does the DataSource Control promotes Rapid
    Application Development?

    There is an old saying:

    You pays me now… or you pays me later. And from my vantage point what the
    Datasouce control gives in one instance it takes away later when a real world
    issue comes into play. This very forum is replete with developer seeking
    help because they get to a point where the easy and fast approach caught up
    with them.


    --
    aaa
    Angel, Jan 27, 2008
    #1
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  2. Angel

    Phil H Guest

    On 27 Jan, 09:10, Angel <> wrote:
    > One claim made of aids in rapid application development but all I see is
    > people having trouble with it and asking lot's of questions about it. I do
    > not claim that these controls are not useful but they are not certainly the
    > end game. In fact, I consider it only one more tool in the toolbox and not
    > necessarily all that significant.
    >
    > I can write application just as rapidly and with less constrains using code.
    > It takes me just three lines of code to bind my databound controls and I am
    > in full control of what is going on.
    >
    > I just help someone on this forum which had an issue which, in my opinion,
    > would not happen if the developer had use code and learned what they were
    > doing in the first place. The danger with these so-called RAD controls is
    > that they tend to hide too much. Also make decision that limit how and what I
    > can do. Invariably the developer ends up writing tons of work-around code
    > (some necessary and some unnecessary) in order to coarse the controls to
    > behave or be compatible with their existing business logic or other
    > interfaces.
    >
    > It has to make you wonder... We should be pushing knowledge not quick
    > solutions! Leave the Easy button to those other guys.
    >
    > So my question is - How exactly does the DataSource Control promotes Rapid
    > Application Development?
    >
    > There is an old saying:
    >
    > You pays me now... or you pays me later. And from my vantage point what the
    > Datasouce control gives in one instance it takes away later when a real world
    > issue comes into play. This very forum is replete with developer seeking
    > help because they get to a point where the easy and fast approach caught up
    > with them.
    >
    > --
    > aaa


    The purpose of the DataSource controls introduced in version 2 of
    ASP.NET is to save a lot of laborious and repetitive code writing, not
    to supplement a lack of knowledge on the part of the developer.

    I am inclined to agree that these controls are not always appropriate
    given that their behaviour will not meet actual requirements in some
    cases. It is important to properly understand how these controls work
    and how to configure them. That way the developer can make informed
    choices about when and how to use them.

    I disagree with the suggestion that they are for the novice or only
    for those who want quick solutions. If you take that to its logical
    conclusion we should all be writing in assembly language and not be
    pampered with high level languages and the luxury of object oriented
    code. :)

    There are alternatives to the Datasource controls that are seldom
    mentioned on this forum, that can be equally powerful in circumstances
    where programmatic control is needed, namely the Dataset objects that
    are created and stored in the App_Code folder as xml encoded files.
    They are only for data sources that support SQL but can save a lot of
    effort writing code to construct Command, Connection and DataReader
    objects to access SQL databases. I recommend readers to look them up
    and study them as well as the Datasource controls.
    Phil H, Feb 2, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Angel

    Angel Guest

    I am afraid that my message is not clear. So let’s start with suggestion
    that the datacontrols are for newbie. That could not be further from the
    truth. I believe the help you get something done quickly. Something like
    taking the stairs or the elevator which one would you take? My answer it
    depends, how many stories up I am going? But if you install the elevator and
    close off the stairs, I will be pissed.

    My gripe with the declarative model is that in general is that it is being
    pushed to the exclusion of all else. I wanted to setup the DetailsView
    control using DataSource instead of add a Datasource control and I could not
    find anything at all. I took days of my time searching the internet to piece
    together enough information to do a simple thing like bind a DetailsView
    control. You get a lot more help if you use the DataSource Controls from
    all sources. I am not saying that the information is not there, just that
    it is not easy to get to. That’s my gripe.

    Secondly, there are a number of situations where the declarative approach
    will work, mostly dynamic creation of columns or fields. In addition, the
    DataSource control tends to make things flat and promote spaghetti code.
    Note, I did not say the DataSource implementation is spaghetti code but they
    do tend to make the programmer lazy and sloppy so that the work tends to
    become spaghetti code. I see this all the time. They also tend to add what
    I call cognitive weight which tends to overload the brain and eventually
    overwhelm the programmer. It should have been encapsulated into the
    individual controls that use it and made a component not a control. Or if you
    will an extender and should have been managed by a wizard at grid or
    detailsview or whatever level not as a separate entity.

    Thirdly, exactly how are we better off? I see no real advantage in using
    these controls over the old approach. At least not for the amount of pain
    they cause. I am sure that you could site one example where you state their
    superiority and would probably counter with what I think is a better
    solution. I guess what I am saying if I may go back to the elevator analogy—
    you have provided me with an elevator with no power and given me a set of
    bicycle pedals so I can power the elevator! Heck, I’ll use the stairs,
    Thanks.

    These controls and the declarative model are not a complete solution. Not
    by any means so why are you getting ready to deprecate the old when you have
    not gotten your act together with the new? That’s my Gripe and That’s my
    message.
    --
    aaa


    "Phil H" wrote:

    > On 27 Jan, 09:10, Angel <> wrote:
    > > One claim made of aids in rapid application development but all I see is
    > > people having trouble with it and asking lot's of questions about it. I do
    > > not claim that these controls are not useful but they are not certainly the
    > > end game. In fact, I consider it only one more tool in the toolbox and not
    > > necessarily all that significant.
    > >
    > > I can write application just as rapidly and with less constrains using code.
    > > It takes me just three lines of code to bind my databound controls and I am
    > > in full control of what is going on.
    > >
    > > I just help someone on this forum which had an issue which, in my opinion,
    > > would not happen if the developer had use code and learned what they were
    > > doing in the first place. The danger with these so-called RAD controls is
    > > that they tend to hide too much. Also make decision that limit how and what I
    > > can do. Invariably the developer ends up writing tons of work-around code
    > > (some necessary and some unnecessary) in order to coarse the controls to
    > > behave or be compatible with their existing business logic or other
    > > interfaces.
    > >
    > > It has to make you wonder... We should be pushing knowledge not quick
    > > solutions! Leave the Easy button to those other guys.
    > >
    > > So my question is - How exactly does the DataSource Control promotes Rapid
    > > Application Development?
    > >
    > > There is an old saying:
    > >
    > > You pays me now... or you pays me later. And from my vantage point what the
    > > Datasouce control gives in one instance it takes away later when a real world
    > > issue comes into play. This very forum is replete with developer seeking
    > > help because they get to a point where the easy and fast approach caught up
    > > with them.
    > >
    > > --
    > > aaa

    >
    > The purpose of the DataSource controls introduced in version 2 of
    > ASP.NET is to save a lot of laborious and repetitive code writing, not
    > to supplement a lack of knowledge on the part of the developer.
    >
    > I am inclined to agree that these controls are not always appropriate
    > given that their behaviour will not meet actual requirements in some
    > cases. It is important to properly understand how these controls work
    > and how to configure them. That way the developer can make informed
    > choices about when and how to use them.
    >
    > I disagree with the suggestion that they are for the novice or only
    > for those who want quick solutions. If you take that to its logical
    > conclusion we should all be writing in assembly language and not be
    > pampered with high level languages and the luxury of object oriented
    > code. :)
    >
    > There are alternatives to the Datasource controls that are seldom
    > mentioned on this forum, that can be equally powerful in circumstances
    > where programmatic control is needed, namely the Dataset objects that
    > are created and stored in the App_Code folder as xml encoded files.
    > They are only for data sources that support SQL but can save a lot of
    > effort writing code to construct Command, Connection and DataReader
    > objects to access SQL databases. I recommend readers to look them up
    > and study them as well as the Datasource controls.
    >
    Angel, Feb 2, 2008
    #3
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