The Guardian's website Sudoku

Discussion in 'HTML' started by dorayme, May 31, 2006.

  1. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    Wold someone please tell the Guardian webmaster how to fix the
    infuriating fault of displaying the Sudoku at eg:

    http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2006/05/1
    7/GdnSudoku329_060527.indd.pdf

    They know about it but don't know what can be done. It prints
    with the proper grid apparently (not tried this) but the inner
    lines fail to show. I expect they can't be bothered to make a
    proper table of it with borders in html and choose the PDf and
    don't know how to fix the display. I get the same problem
    downloading the PDF to my Adobe Acrobat Reader... ah hang on, it
    opens fine in Mac Preview... So it seems it is a prob with
    particular software... ho hum... Mac at least has easy fix...
    (discovered during course of this note to you lot... btw, anyone
    do Sudoku?)

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, May 31, 2006
    #1
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  2. dorayme

    Jim Higson Guest

    dorayme wrote:

    > Wold someone please tell the Guardian webmaster how to fix the
    > infuriating fault of displaying the Sudoku at eg:
    >
    >

    http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2006/05/17/GdnSudoku329_060527.indd.pdf

    ( I removed line wrap from the URL)

    > They know about it but don't know what can be done. It prints
    > with the proper grid apparently (not tried this) but the inner
    > lines fail to show. I expect they can't be bothered to make a
    > proper table of it with borders in html and choose the PDf and
    > don't know how to fix the display. I get the same problem
    > downloading the PDF to my Adobe Acrobat Reader... ah hang on, it
    > opens fine in Mac Preview... So it seems it is a prob with
    > particular software... ho hum... Mac at least has easy fix...
    > (discovered during course of this note to you lot... btw, anyone
    > do Sudoku?)


    No Acrobat here (only use FOSS software), but it displays fine in KPDF
    (which uses the Poppler renderer), but you have to zoom in really close to
    see the fine lines. I have a 1600x1200 monitor and you have to zoom right
    in until it fills the screen.

    Probably the problem is the lack of anti-aliased rendering, combined with
    lines too thin to occupy an entire pixel's width at normal levels of zoom.
    If they want to fix it they should just use thicker lines.

    Or, better still, just use a HTML table and let the browser worry about how
    thick the lines should be.

    --
    Jim
     
    Jim Higson, May 31, 2006
    #2
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  3. dorayme

    Jim Higson Guest


    >> They know about it but don't know what can be done. It prints
    >> with the proper grid apparently (not tried this) but the inner
    >> lines fail to show. I expect they can't be bothered to make a
    >> proper table of it with borders in html and choose the PDf and
    >> don't know how to fix the display. I get the same problem
    >> downloading the PDF to my Adobe Acrobat Reader... ah hang on, it
    >> opens fine in Mac Preview... So it seems it is a prob with
    >> particular software... ho hum... Mac at least has easy fix...
    >> (discovered during course of this note to you lot... btw, anyone
    >> do Sudoku?)

    >
    > No Acrobat here (only use FOSS software), but it displays fine in KPDF
    > (which uses the Poppler renderer)


    Forgot to mention, newer versions of Poppler use the Cairo graphics backend,
    which supports anti-aliasing for everything, so all that zooming might not
    be necessary.

    There might be a Windows/Mac program that uses this renderer, I haven't
    looked.

    Some links:
    http://www.archivesat.com/Poppler_PDF_rendering_library/
    http://cairographics.org/

    --
    Jim
     
    Jim Higson, May 31, 2006
    #3
  4. dorayme

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Toby Inkster, May 31, 2006
    #4
  5. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Jim Higson <> wrote:

    > Probably the problem is the lack of anti-aliased rendering, combined with
    > lines too thin to occupy an entire pixel's width at normal levels of zoom.
    > If they want to fix it they should just use thicker lines.


    By downloading the pdf instead and opening in the Acrobat Reader,
    one needs to zoom a real lot! Opening the pdf in Preview, a sort
    of all purpose Mac X app, the problem did not show up at all, the
    lines clear at even quite tiny size (1.5" x 1.5"). So I am not
    sure you are right or you are and Preview is very clever (not
    that I am a big fan of this software, sure scores here though)

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, May 31, 2006
    #5
  6. dorayme

    Martin Jay Guest

    In message <5n.co.uk>, Toby Inkster
    <> writes
    >dorayme wrote:
    >
    >> anyone do Sudoku?

    >
    >does anyone not?!


    LOL. I lost interest in it ages ago.

    I used to like Tsunami puzzles, which are a bit like a paper version of
    Windows Minesweeper. Of course searching Google for an example brings
    up lots of unrelated links. :(
    --
    Martin Jay
    Phone/SMS: +44 7740 191877
    Fax: +44 870 915 2124
     
    Martin Jay, May 31, 2006
    #6
  7. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Jim Higson <> wrote:

    > Forgot to mention, newer versions of Poppler use the Cairo graphics backend,
    > which supports anti-aliasing for everything, so all that zooming might not
    > be necessary.
    >
    > There might be a Windows/Mac program that uses this renderer, I haven't
    > looked.
    >
    > Some links:
    > http://www.archivesat.com/Poppler_PDF_rendering_library/
    > http://cairographics.org/
    >
    > --
    > Jim


    Sorry, Jim, I may have misjudged your diagnoses. Perhaps you are
    right? Acrobat does not handle this anti-aliasing (if it is that)
    and Preview does.

    I know a few things about Cairo. My dad used to work there and a
    fellow with a barrow and an organ used to come by every week with
    a monkey turning the handle and we used to throw down piastas
    from the balcony...

    About monkeys and organs, this is exactly how I have been feeling
    handling floats for a new site I am building this week, I am the
    chimp and the tune is not what I want to hear yet... back to the
    grind...

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, May 31, 2006
    #7
  8. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    In article <5n.co.uk>,
    Toby Inkster <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    >
    > > anyone do Sudoku?

    >
    > does anyone not?!


    .... it is idiotically addictive. Why, hell, I even know someone
    who especially gets the normally-not-worth-it-less-than-hard ones
    for doing in one complete session on the dunny...

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, May 31, 2006
    #8
  9. dorayme

    Toby Inkster Guest

    dorayme wrote:
    > Toby Inkster <> wrote:
    >> dorayme wrote:
    >>
    >>> anyone do Sudoku?

    >>
    >> does anyone not?!

    >
    > ... it is idiotically addictive.


    I really like the 16x16 hexadecimal ones. I've seen 25x25 too, but have
    yet to try it.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Jun 1, 2006
    #9
  10. dorayme

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Jim Higson wrote:

    > Probably the problem is the lack of anti-aliased rendering, combined with
    > lines too thin to occupy an entire pixel's width at normal levels of zoom.
    > If they want to fix it they should just use thicker lines.


    Tested it here. Acroread doesn't like it until you zoom in to 200%.
    Ghostscript renders it fine, even zoomed out to 33%. GNOME PDF (based on
    Xpdf) renders fine too. I'd imagine it would look fine printed though
    (even with Acroread).

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Jun 1, 2006
    #10
  11. dorayme

    Jim Higson Guest

    dorayme wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > Jim Higson <> wrote:
    >
    >> Forgot to mention, newer versions of Poppler use the Cairo graphics
    >> backend, which supports anti-aliasing for everything, so all that zooming
    >> might not be necessary.
    >>
    >> There might be a Windows/Mac program that uses this renderer, I haven't
    >> looked.
    >>
    >> Some links:
    >> http://www.archivesat.com/Poppler_PDF_rendering_library/
    >> http://cairographics.org/
    >>
    >> --
    >> Jim

    >
    > Sorry, Jim, I may have misjudged your diagnoses. Perhaps you are
    > right? Acrobat does not handle this anti-aliasing (if it is that)
    > and Preview does.


    Yeah, if a line is too thin to cover the width of an entire pixel,
    antialiasing is the answer. It's basically the same as rendering it at a
    larger size, and then scaling down with interpolation.

    > I know a few things about Cairo. My dad used to work there and a
    > fellow with a barrow and an organ used to come by every week with
    > a monkey turning the handle and we used to throw down piastas
    > from the balcony...


    On a very slightly more related topic, Cairo is being used as the graphics
    end of Gecko 1.9. This IMO is very good news for quite a few reasons.

    > About monkeys and organs, this is exactly how I have been feeling
    > handling floats for a new site I am building this week, I am the
    > chimp and the tune is not what I want to hear yet... back to the
    > grind...
    >
     
    Jim Higson, Jun 3, 2006
    #11
  12. dorayme

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Jim Higson <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    >
    > > Perhaps you are
    > > right? Acrobat does not handle this anti-aliasing (if it is that)
    > > and Preview does.

    >
    > Yeah, if a line is too thin to cover the width of an entire pixel,
    > antialiasing is the answer. It's basically the same as rendering it at a
    > larger size, and then scaling down with interpolation.


    Yes, this sounds like what is going on. The Guardian either does
    not know about this or are not prepared to give advice...
    (perhaps they have commercial reasons not to badmouth Adobe?)

    They are aware of the problem. And cheerfully note that the
    problem is not evident in printing. I rarely print them. I use
    the spare blank side of old A4's that have been printed with a
    nice big grid and jot the numbers down with a pencil. It is not
    hard to guess the lines...

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jun 3, 2006
    #12
  13. dorayme

    Jim Higson Guest

    dorayme wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > Jim Higson <> wrote:
    >
    >> dorayme wrote:
    >>
    >> > Perhaps you are
    >> > right? Acrobat does not handle this anti-aliasing (if it is that)
    >> > and Preview does.

    >>
    >> Yeah, if a line is too thin to cover the width of an entire pixel,
    >> antialiasing is the answer. It's basically the same as rendering it at a
    >> larger size, and then scaling down with interpolation.

    >
    > Yes, this sounds like what is going on. The Guardian either does
    > not know about this or are not prepared to give advice...
    > (perhaps they have commercial reasons not to badmouth Adobe?)


    Well, antialiasing wouldn't be needed if they just made their lines a little
    thicker so they fill a whole pixel at sensible levels of zoom! I'm sure
    this is *easily* within their powers.

    I suppose this being the Guardian though, they're more interested in the
    look on the printed page. Can I really be the only person who prefers the
    less colourfull, non-design award winning old broadsheet over the fancy
    new "Berliner" format? When newspapers come on electronic paper I hope
    there's some equivalent thing to overriding their CSS.

    > They are aware of the problem. And cheerfully note that the
    > problem is not evident in printing. I rarely print them. I use
    > the spare blank side of old A4's that have been printed with a
    > nice big grid and jot the numbers down with a pencil. It is not
    > hard to guess the lines...
     
    Jim Higson, Jun 4, 2006
    #13
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