The node.js Community is Quietly Changing the Face of Open Source

Discussion in 'Python' started by Rodrick Brown, Apr 16, 2013.

  1. I came across this article which sums up some of the issues I have with
    modern programming languages. I've never really looked at Javascript for
    anything serious or Node itself but I found this article really
    informational.

    "The “Batteries included” philosophy of Python was definitely the right
    approach during the mid 90’s and one of the reasons that I loved Python so
    much; this was a time before modern package management, and before it was
    easy to find and install community-created libraries. Nowadays though I
    think it’s counter-productive. Developers in the community rarely want to
    bother trying to compete with the standard library, so people are less
    likely to try to write libraries that improve upon it."


    http://caines.ca/blog/programming/the-node-js-community-is-quietly-changing-the-face-of-open-source/
     
    Rodrick Brown, Apr 16, 2013
    #1
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  2. Re: The node.js Community is Quietly Changing the Face of OpenSource

    On Tue, 16 Apr 2013 12:02:01 -0400, Rodrick Brown wrote:

    > I came across this article which sums up some of the issues I have with
    > modern programming languages. I've never really looked at Javascript for
    > anything serious or Node itself but I found this article really
    > informational.
    >
    > "The “Batteries included†philosophy of Python was definitely the right
    > approach during the mid 90’s and one of the reasons that I loved Python
    > so much; this was a time before modern package management, and before it
    > was easy to find and install community-created libraries. Nowadays
    > though I think it’s counter-productive. Developers in the community
    > rarely want to bother trying to compete with the standard library, so
    > people are less likely to try to write libraries that improve upon it."


    What of corporate users on locked-down boxes where installing software is
    either a firing offence, or simply cannot be done at all? Or they have to
    fill out long and tiresome forms requesting permission. Or students using
    shared machines, where even if you install something, it will be gone the
    next time you come in?

    What of people who don't want the hassle of trolling through 7 different
    maths libraries looking for the "best" one to use, or who might not trust
    random packages found on the Internet by authors you know nothing about.

    Or those who don't want to spend their time reading licences? With the
    Python standard library, you know you can use anything in that library
    without worrying about the licence. With third party libraries, you have
    to decide whether or not you are legally allowed to distribute that
    library, and if not, how do you install it for your customers?

    There are all sorts of reasons why people might not want to *hunt and
    install* their own packages, starting with laziness and ending with "I
    like my job very much thank you, and I'd rather not get the sack". I
    think it shows astonishing privilege of the author to just assume that
    because he finds it easy to install third-party software, everybody must.

    > http://caines.ca/blog/programming/the-node-js-community-is-quietly-

    changing-the-face-of-open-source/


    Just three sentences after telling us how the right URL library to use
    for Python is the third-party "requests" module, the author tells us that
    developers "rarely want to bother trying to compete with the standard
    library, so people are less likely to try to write libraries that improve
    upon it."

    Like requests, huh?

    He then compares node.js packages with Twitter:

    "Just like the 140 character limit on twitter makes people “blog†more,
    the node.js community has a culture of publishing tiny modules that makes
    people more comfortable with publishing smaller packages, and so it
    happens vastly more often."

    Yeah, because the vast bulk of 140-character tweets are something to
    aspire to.

    What matters is not how often people publish tiny packages that nobody
    uses. That's not a good measure of the health of a developer's culture.
    How many of those tiny packages are published, only to then languish in
    obscurity, lost and forgotten? How many are ever used by anyone other
    than their author?

    ActiveState includes almost 4000 Python recipes:

    http://code.activestate.com/recipes/langs/python/new/

    and I would say that the great bulk of them are rubbish, or so
    specialised as to be of interest to very few people, or both. Or
    suffering from "NIH" syndrome. I see about 100 different recipes for
    implementing enums:"

    http://code.activestate.com/search/recipes/#q=enums

    I don't think that 100 different recipes for enums is a good measure of
    Python's health, and I don't think that hundreds of little tiny packages
    are a good measure of the health of node.js either.

    If you look at the node.js site, the first thing that jumps out at me is
    that the culture encourages churning out packages rather than encouraging
    quality packages. The front page offers author recognition for being
    prolific, but not for writing good code. Good (or at least *popular*,
    which is not the same thing) packages get their name on the front page,
    but *authors* get their name on the front page by writing loads of
    packages regardless of quality.

    The current most prolific author is Sindre Sorhus, and if you look at his
    list of packages, you will see a certain amount of replication. This is
    what happens when you reward people for quantity:


    # generator-jasmine Yeoman generator for Jasmine
    # generator-webapp Default Yeoman generator for scaffolding out a front-
    end web app
    # generator-testacular Yeoman generator for Testacular
    # generator-chromeapp Yeoman generator for Chrome App
    # generator-angular Yeoman generator for AngularJS
    # generator-mocha Yeoman generator for Mocha
    # generator-bbb Yeoman generator for Backbone Boilerplate
    # generator-backbone Yeoman generator for Backbone.js


    https://npmjs.org/~sindresorhus


    I wonder, how much copy-and-pasting between packages does he do?



    --
    Steven
     
    Steven D'Aprano, Apr 17, 2013
    #2
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  3. Steven D'Aprano, 17.04.2013 11:16:
    > If you look at the node.js site, the first thing that jumps out at me is
    > that the culture encourages churning out packages rather than encouraging
    > quality packages. The front page offers author recognition for being
    > prolific, but not for writing good code. Good (or at least *popular*,
    > which is not the same thing) packages get their name on the front page,
    > but *authors* get their name on the front page by writing loads of
    > packages regardless of quality.
    >
    > The current most prolific author is Sindre Sorhus, and if you look at his
    > list of packages, you will see a certain amount of replication. This is
    > what happens when you reward people for quantity:
    >
    >
    > # generator-jasmine Yeoman generator for Jasmine
    > # generator-webapp Default Yeoman generator for scaffolding out a front-
    > end web app
    > # generator-testacular Yeoman generator for Testacular
    > # generator-chromeapp Yeoman generator for Chrome App
    > # generator-angular Yeoman generator for AngularJS
    > # generator-mocha Yeoman generator for Mocha
    > # generator-bbb Yeoman generator for Backbone Boilerplate
    > # generator-backbone Yeoman generator for Backbone.js
    >
    >
    > https://npmjs.org/~sindresorhus
    >
    > I wonder, how much copy-and-pasting between packages does he do?


    It's possible that the answer is "none", and that you actually need to
    install all of his packages in order to make use of one.

    Stefan
     
    Stefan Behnel, Apr 17, 2013
    #3
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