The Problem With most VHDL books

B

Bar Nash

Hi all

The problem with most VHDL books is that they concentrate on coding , that
is translating digital blocks into VHDL .

They almost never explain in detail the stages involved in turning the idea
into hardware : SYSTEM > RTL > GATE LEVEL > NETLIST ...ASIC
so one new to the subject has to dig this info from newsgroups and search
engines and to build the whole puzzle little by little .

It will be a great idea to start a website that concentrates on this subject
alone.

Many thanks to those who took time to answer my questions .

EC
 
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I agree ..
You have to thing hardware in order to get the best of VHDL.
But you could feal lucky and let the synthesize tool solve the problem for you.
My website do have a few "explained" examples - but Im still working on this
Jeppe
 
B

Bar Nash

Thanks
ec

Eric Smith said:
It's no surprise that most VHDL books don't describe that, because VHDL
is only a portion of the design flow. A book on VHDL describes the
portion
of the design flow that is specifically VHDL.

If you want to know how to translate RTL to gates/netlists, the
documentation on the tools covers what you need to do, and most of the
tool vendors provide examples and/or tutorials. If you want to
know how that process actually works, there are books on those subjects.
 
P

Peter

If you want to know how to translate RTL to gates/netlists, the
documentation on the tools covers what you need to do, and most of the
tool vendors provide examples and/or tutorials.  If you want to
know how that process actually works, there are books on those subjects.

Perhaps the most interesting step is SYSTEM -> RTL and I am not aware
of any book
about that. Is it even possible to write a book about that subject?
Perhaps learn by doing is the only way?

/Peter
 
T

Tricky

Perhaps the most interesting step is SYSTEM -> RTL and I am not aware
of any book
about that. Is it even possible to write a book about that subject?
Perhaps learn by doing is the only way?

/Peter

I think this step is called an electronic engineering degree or
similar. There are plenty of books involved in that.
 
M

Mike Treseler

Bar said:
The problem with most VHDL books is that they concentrate on coding , that
is translating digital blocks into VHDL .

I agree that most vhdl texts spend too
much time on structural coding in
a schematic/netlist style.
The book may show how to infer a register or
counter, but how to infer a full IP block
is left to the student.

Many designers work interactively with a simulator
to fill out the 'coding' that infers
the exact hardware block required.
A good how-to book on writing synthesis code
this way may never be written because,
1. Writing code pays better than writing a book.
2. The design process varies with tools,
target products, and local customs.
3. The process varies with time as do the parameters above.
They almost never explain in detail the stages involved in turning the idea
into hardware : SYSTEM > RTL > GATE LEVEL > NETLIST ...ASIC
so one new to the subject has to dig this info from newsgroups and search
engines and to build the whole puzzle little by little .

There is a good reason for this.
Once I have working source code, the rest of this process
is mostly automatic. I may have to fiddle
with the code to fit a device or to make Fmax,
but most of the intellectual work is done.

-- Mike Treseler
 
P

Peter

Perhaps learn by doing is the only way?
I think this step is called an electronic engineering degree or
similar. There are plenty of books involved in that.

Yes, but I dont think you are able to accomplish very much with your
brand new diploma in electronic engineering. You need years of
experience before you become skilled. I guess that a book that
concentrates on real-life problems and teaches how to think would be
most welcome by students.

/Peter
 
C

Colin Paul Gloster

Subject: Re: The Problem With most VHDL books
Peter Hermansson submitted to on October 9th, 2008:
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|
|"> > Perhaps learn by doing is the only way? |
|> |
|> > /Peter |
|> |
|> I think this step is called an electronic engineering degree or |
|> similar. There are plenty of books involved in that. |
| |
|Yes, but I dont think you are able to accomplish very much with your|
|brand new diploma in electronic engineering. You need years of |
|experience before you become skilled. I guess that a book that |
|concentrates on real-life problems and teaches how to think would be|
|most welcome by students." |
|--------------------------------------------------------------------|

I disagree. I could think before I learnt how to talk. I was awarded a degree
from Sweden, which was enclosed with a note that I was thought how to think
critically for this degree. Nonsense.

A supposed professor of VHDL for electronic engineering authored a book
published slightly over six years ago in which he showed (as with many other
authors) that he is not competent at detecting a clock's transitions without
taking a simple precaution against mismatch between synthesis and
simulation. He was still using that book and boasting about his years of
experience supposedly proving his expertise of VHDL many years afterwards.

I suspect that you would find very few supposedly native Anglophonic people
with many years of experience who would actually be able to tell you what is
wrong with the string of words "It's me". Have you ever noticed the way Swedes
with many years of experience are so inadequate at speaking in Swedish
properly that they emit "använder" instead of "äger" or "besittar"?

Time is not a proxy of talent. I was better at some things many years ago
which I am worse at now, and vice versa.
 

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