The Problem With most VHDL books

Discussion in 'VHDL' started by Bar Nash, Oct 7, 2008.

  1. Bar Nash

    Bar Nash Guest

    Hi all

    The problem with most VHDL books is that they concentrate on coding , that
    is translating digital blocks into VHDL .

    They almost never explain in detail the stages involved in turning the idea
    into hardware : SYSTEM > RTL > GATE LEVEL > NETLIST ...ASIC
    so one new to the subject has to dig this info from newsgroups and search
    engines and to build the whole puzzle little by little .

    It will be a great idea to start a website that concentrates on this subject
    alone.

    Many thanks to those who took time to answer my questions .

    EC
     
    Bar Nash, Oct 7, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Bar Nash

    jeppe

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Messages:
    348
    Location:
    Denmark
    I agree ..
    You have to thing hardware in order to get the best of VHDL.
    But you could feal lucky and let the synthesize tool solve the problem for you.
    My website do have a few "explained" examples - but Im still working on this
    Jeppe
     
    jeppe, Oct 7, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Bar Nash

    Bar Nash Guest

    Thanks
    ec

    "Eric Smith" <> ???
    ??????:...
    > Bar Nash wrote:
    >> The problem with most VHDL books is that they concentrate on coding ,
    >> that
    >> is translating digital blocks into VHDL .
    >>
    >> They almost never explain in detail the stages involved in turning the
    >> idea
    >> into hardware : SYSTEM > RTL > GATE LEVEL > NETLIST ...ASIC

    >
    > It's no surprise that most VHDL books don't describe that, because VHDL
    > is only a portion of the design flow. A book on VHDL describes the
    > portion
    > of the design flow that is specifically VHDL.
    >
    > If you want to know how to translate RTL to gates/netlists, the
    > documentation on the tools covers what you need to do, and most of the
    > tool vendors provide examples and/or tutorials. If you want to
    > know how that process actually works, there are books on those subjects.
     
    Bar Nash, Oct 8, 2008
    #3
  4. Bar Nash

    Peter Guest

    > If you want to know how to translate RTL to gates/netlists, the
    > documentation on the tools covers what you need to do, and most of the
    > tool vendors provide examples and/or tutorials.  If you want to
    > know how that process actually works, there are books on those subjects.


    Perhaps the most interesting step is SYSTEM -> RTL and I am not aware
    of any book
    about that. Is it even possible to write a book about that subject?
    Perhaps learn by doing is the only way?

    /Peter
     
    Peter, Oct 8, 2008
    #4
  5. Bar Nash

    Tricky Guest

    On 8 Oct, 11:46, Peter <> wrote:
    > > If you want to know how to translate RTL to gates/netlists, the
    > > documentation on the tools covers what you need to do, and most of the
    > > tool vendors provide examples and/or tutorials.  If you want to
    > > know how that process actually works, there are books on those subjects..

    >
    > Perhaps the most interesting step is SYSTEM -> RTL and I am not aware
    > of any book
    > about that. Is it even possible to write a book about that subject?
    > Perhaps learn by doing is the only way?
    >
    > /Peter


    I think this step is called an electronic engineering degree or
    similar. There are plenty of books involved in that.
     
    Tricky, Oct 8, 2008
    #5
  6. Bar Nash wrote:

    > The problem with most VHDL books is that they concentrate on coding , that
    > is translating digital blocks into VHDL .


    I agree that most vhdl texts spend too
    much time on structural coding in
    a schematic/netlist style.
    The book may show how to infer a register or
    counter, but how to infer a full IP block
    is left to the student.

    Many designers work interactively with a simulator
    to fill out the 'coding' that infers
    the exact hardware block required.
    A good how-to book on writing synthesis code
    this way may never be written because,
    1. Writing code pays better than writing a book.
    2. The design process varies with tools,
    target products, and local customs.
    3. The process varies with time as do the parameters above.

    > They almost never explain in detail the stages involved in turning the idea
    > into hardware : SYSTEM > RTL > GATE LEVEL > NETLIST ...ASIC
    > so one new to the subject has to dig this info from newsgroups and search
    > engines and to build the whole puzzle little by little .


    There is a good reason for this.
    Once I have working source code, the rest of this process
    is mostly automatic. I may have to fiddle
    with the code to fit a device or to make Fmax,
    but most of the intellectual work is done.

    -- Mike Treseler
     
    Mike Treseler, Oct 8, 2008
    #6
  7. Bar Nash

    Peter Guest

    > > Perhaps learn by doing is the only way?
    >
    > > /Peter

    >
    > I think this step is called an electronic engineering degree or
    > similar. There are plenty of books involved in that.


    Yes, but I dont think you are able to accomplish very much with your
    brand new diploma in electronic engineering. You need years of
    experience before you become skilled. I guess that a book that
    concentrates on real-life problems and teaches how to think would be
    most welcome by students.

    /Peter
     
    Peter, Oct 9, 2008
    #7
  8. Subject: Re: The Problem With most VHDL books
    Peter Hermansson submitted to news:comp.lang.vhdl on October 9th, 2008:
    |--------------------------------------------------------------------|
    |"> > Perhaps learn by doing is the only way? |
    |> |
    |> > /Peter |
    |> |
    |> I think this step is called an electronic engineering degree or |
    |> similar. There are plenty of books involved in that. |
    | |
    |Yes, but I dont think you are able to accomplish very much with your|
    |brand new diploma in electronic engineering. You need years of |
    |experience before you become skilled. I guess that a book that |
    |concentrates on real-life problems and teaches how to think would be|
    |most welcome by students." |
    |--------------------------------------------------------------------|

    I disagree. I could think before I learnt how to talk. I was awarded a degree
    from Sweden, which was enclosed with a note that I was thought how to think
    critically for this degree. Nonsense.

    A supposed professor of VHDL for electronic engineering authored a book
    published slightly over six years ago in which he showed (as with many other
    authors) that he is not competent at detecting a clock's transitions without
    taking a simple precaution against mismatch between synthesis and
    simulation. He was still using that book and boasting about his years of
    experience supposedly proving his expertise of VHDL many years afterwards.

    I suspect that you would find very few supposedly native Anglophonic people
    with many years of experience who would actually be able to tell you what is
    wrong with the string of words "It's me". Have you ever noticed the way Swedes
    with many years of experience are so inadequate at speaking in Swedish
    properly that they emit "använder" instead of "äger" or "besittar"?

    Time is not a proxy of talent. I was better at some things many years ago
    which I am worse at now, and vice versa.
     
    Colin Paul Gloster, Oct 13, 2008
    #8
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. HDL Book Seller
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    954
    HDL Book Seller
    Dec 1, 2004
  2. H.MuthuKumaraRajan
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    451
    H.MuthuKumaraRajan
    Feb 4, 2004
  3. Guest

    Books, Books, Books...

    Guest, Sep 19, 2004, in forum: C++
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    556
    ÁÍÄÑÅÁÓ ÔÁÓÏÕËÁÓ
    Sep 19, 2004
  4. afd
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    8,364
    Colin Paul Gloster
    Mar 23, 2007
  5. xkenneth
    Replies:
    8
    Views:
    342
    Bruno Desthuilliers
    Feb 6, 2008
Loading...

Share This Page