The Semicolon Wars as a software industry and human condition

Discussion in 'Java' started by Xah Lee, Aug 17, 2006.

  1. Xah Lee

    Xah Lee Guest

    Xah Lee, Aug 17, 2006
    #1
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  2. Xah Lee

    DJ Stunks Guest

    DJ Stunks, Aug 17, 2006
    #2
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  3. Xah Lee

    jmckitrick Guest

    What's more of a waste of time:

    1. The 30 minutes he took to write his vacuous essay.
    2. The 15 seconds it took to skim it and see nothing worth reading.
    3. The 30 seconds it took to write this post.

    Tough call.
     
    jmckitrick, Aug 17, 2006
    #3
  4. Xah Lee

    Iain King Guest

    Xah Lee wrote:
    > Of interest:
    >
    > • The Semicolon Wars, by Brian Hayes. 2006.
    > http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/51982
    >
    > in conjunction to this article, i recommend:
    >
    > • Software Needs Philosophers, by Steve Yegge, 2006
    > http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/_p/software_phil.html
    >
    > • What Languages to Hate, Xah Lee, 2002
    > http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/language_to_hate.html
    >
    > Xah
    >
    > ∑ http://xahlee.org/


    I'm confused - I thought Xah Lee loved Perl? Now he's bashing it?
    Huh?

    Iain
     
    Iain King, Aug 17, 2006
    #4
  5. Iain King wrote:
    > Xah Lee wrote:
    >> Of interest:
    >>
    >> . The Semicolon Wars, by Brian Hayes. 2006.
    >> http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/51982
    >>
    >> in conjunction to this article, i recommend:
    >>
    >> . Software Needs Philosophers, by Steve Yegge, 2006
    >> http://xahlee.org/Periodic_dosage_dir/_p/software_phil.html
    >>
    >> . What Languages to Hate, Xah Lee, 2002
    >> http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/language_to_hate.html
    >>
    >> Xah
    >>
    >> ? http://xahlee.org/

    >
    > I'm confused - I thought Xah Lee loved Perl? Now he's bashing it?


    He only loves himself.
    Aside of that:


    +-------------------+ .:\:\:/:/:.
    | PLEASE DO NOT | :.:\:\:/:/:.:
    | FEED THE TROLLS | :=.' - - '.=:
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    \||||/ | | \| __\,,\ /,,/__
    \||/ | | | jgs (______Y______)
    /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\//\/\\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
    ==============================================================

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Aug 17, 2006
    #5
  6. Xah Lee

    Ken Tilton Guest

    Ken Tilton, Aug 17, 2006
    #6

  7. >>It was philosophers that got us out of that Dark Ages mess, and no small
    >>number of them lost their lives in doing so. And today, the philosophy
    >>majors are the butts of the most jokes, because after the philosophers
    >>succeeded in opening our minds, we forgot why we needed them.


    Look east Xah, we're still in the "Dark Ages mess".
     
    Philippe Martin, Aug 17, 2006
    #7
  8. "Iain King" <> wrote in news:1155827943.041208.51220
    @i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

    > I'm confused - I thought Xah Lee loved Perl? Now he's bashing it?
    > Huh?


    That's his other personality.

    --
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
    Greg R. Broderick

    A. Top posters.
    Q. What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Greg R. Broderick, Aug 18, 2006
    #8
  9. On 17 Aug 2006 06:42:55 -0700, "Xah Lee" <> wrote:

    >Of interest:
    >
    >• The Semicolon Wars, by Brian Hayes. 2006.
    > http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/51982

    [snip]
    >• What Languages to Hate, Xah Lee, 2002
    >http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/writ/language_to_hate.html


    Cool! From the former:

    : Today's missionaries take an upbeat approach, spending more time in promoting their own religion and less in dissing the other person's beliefs. The message is no longer "You'll burn in hell if you write C." It's "Look what a paradise Python offers you!" (I think maybe I liked the old sermons better.)


    Michele
    --
    {$_=pack'B8'x25,unpack'A8'x32,$a^=sub{pop^pop}->(map substr
    (($a||=join'',map--$|x$_,(unpack'w',unpack'u','G^<R<Y]*YB='
    ..'KYU;*EVH[.FHF2W+#"\Z*5TI/ER<Z`S(G.DZZ9OX0Z')=~/./g)x2,$_,
    256),7,249);s/[^\w,]/ /g;$ \=/^J/?$/:"\r";print,redo}#JAPH,
     
    Michele Dondi, Aug 18, 2006
    #9
  10. Xah Lee

    Xah Lee Guest

    A Editor Feature for Extending Selection based on Language Syntax

    can anyone give me a guide about writing a short elisp function? (for
    non-emacs readers, this message will describe a editor feature i think
    will be very beneficial to spread this concept.)

    i want to write a function such that, when run, highlight a region
    between the nearest left and right delimiters. Delimiters are any of
    parenthesis, square brackets, or single and double quotes etc. When the
    function is run again, it extends the selection to the next enclosing
    delimiters.

    So, in this way, a user can repeatedly press a keyboard shortcut and
    extend the selection.

    This is feature of BBEdit/TextWrangler on the Mac, which extend
    selection to the nearest outer parenthesis. This is also a feature of
    the Mathematica editor, which actually extend selection to the nearest
    syntactical unit in the language, not just paired delimiters.

    What i wanted this for is mostly in editing HTML/XML, where one press
    can select the content, another press will include the enclosing tags,
    another press extends the selection to the next outer content, and
    another press include that tags too, and so on.

    I'm a elisp newbie. Here's a simple code i have so far:

    (defun d ()
    "extend selection to nearest enclosing delimiters"
    (interactive)
    (skip-chars-backward "^<>()“â€{}[]")
    (push-mark)
    (skip-chars-forward "^<>()“â€{}[]")
    (exchange-point-and-mark 1)
    )

    .... i think i have quite a lot to go... I think this would be a great
    feature for any mode, where the a keypress will highlight more
    syntactical units in any language's mode. For example, suppose in
    C-like language:

    function f (arg1, arg2) {
    line1;
    line2;
    }

    if the cursor is at arg1, then first press will highlight the content
    of the args, another press includes the parens, another press will
    include the whole function. If the cursor is at line1, then it selects
    that word in the line, then the line, then the whole function def body,
    then including {}, then the whole function... etc in many languages.

    For a xml language example, suppose we have this RSS/Atom example:

    <entry>
    <title>Gulliver's Travels</title>
    <id>tag:xahlee.org,2006-08-21:030437</id>
    <updated>2006-08-20T20:04:41-07:00</updated>
    <summary>Annotated a chapter of Gulliver's Travels</summary>
    <link rel="alternate" href="../p/Gullivers_Travels/gt3ch05.html"/>
    </entry>

    If the cursor is inside a tag's enclosing content, say, on the T in
    Gulliver's Travels inside the <title> tag, then the repeated extension
    is obvious. But however, suppose the cursor is at t in the
    “alternate†inside the “link†tag, then it would first select
    the whole “alternate†word, then the whole “rel="alternate"â€,
    then the whole link tag, then the whole content of the entry tag, then
    including the “<entry>†tags itself.

    (in short, the selection extends according to the language's syntax
    tree)

    Xah

    ∑ http://xahlee.org/
     
    Xah Lee, Aug 21, 2006
    #10
  11. Xah Lee

    John Bokma Guest

    Reported (was Re: A Editor Feature for Extending)

    "Xah Lee" <> wrote:

    Let's see how fast we can drop you from another hosting provider :-D.


    --
    John Experienced Perl programmer: http://castleamber.com/

    Perl help, tutorials, and examples: http://johnbokma.com/perl/
     
    John Bokma, Aug 21, 2006
    #11
  12. Xah Lee

    Guest

    Transient Mark Mode and the Modernization of Emacs

    While reading on the emacs manual on the chapter about Mark
    (http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/Mark.html), in a
    process of writing some elisp function... i realized that the Transient
    Mark Mode, which i've been using for the past couple of years, entails
    more than just appearance.

    Basically, since emacs always have a mark once it is set, and in fact
    keeps a record of marks, thus there is always a region (from the last
    mark to the cursor's position). And if a region is to be highlighted,
    this would create a highlighted section at all times, and is annoying
    and is not what most editors do.

    The bottom line is that to implement transient mark mode, another
    concept comes into play: active/inactive state of the region. Emacs
    functions that work on region must change their behavior with this
    concept in mind (when Transient Mark Mode is on).

    The point i want to bring here is that, this is getting complex. We
    already have the CUV mode, now the Transient Mark Mode (which is off by
    default), and i also note there's delete-selection-mode, all of these
    compatibility modes in effort to make emacs more inline with modern
    software user interface conventions and expectations also add
    complication to emacs.

    I would very much suggest, that emacs from now on by default turn on
    the CUV mode, Transient Mark Mode, and delete-selection-mode by
    DEFAULT, and in emacs's documentation reduce the importance of these
    old-fashioned state of these modes.

    .... i would write a full detailed account on the reasons and choices
    for emacs modernization another day... but basically, software must
    change with time. Technical superiority is almost never the main cause
    of a software's survivability. (e.g. far numerous technical superior
    technologies have foundered in the history of software industry)
    Emacs's various ways of user interface, although have strong followers,
    but it is questionable that itself is truly a superior user interface.
    On the other hand, the simple fact that all major software have adopted
    the same user interface is a strong reason to adopt this change. (and,
    make these changes by default does not jeopardize emacs's older ways.)

    Some other major points about modernization of emacs is archived here:
    http://xahlee.org/emacs/modernization.html

    The springing up of things like Eclipse and its huge following, just
    indicates that there's something wrong at least in practice, with the
    concept that emacs is the all powerful editor as people are made to
    believe. (and emacsers themselves like to believe)

    Xah

    ∑ http://xahlee.org/
     
    , Sep 2, 2006
    #12
  13. Re: Transient Mark Mode and the Modernization of Emacs

    "" <> writes:
    > [...]
    > The point i want to bring here is that, this is getting complex. We
    > already have the CUV mode, now the Transient Mark Mode (which is off by
    > default), and i also note there's delete-selection-mode, all of these
    > compatibility modes in effort to make emacs more inline with modern
    > software user interface conventions and expectations also add
    > complication to emacs.
    > [...]


    Xah Lee, the Most UnZen Netizen.

    --
    __Pascal Bourguignon__ http://www.informatimago.com/

    Nobody can fix the economy. Nobody can be trusted with their finger
    on the button. Nobody's perfect. VOTE FOR NOBODY.
     
    Pascal Bourguignon, Sep 2, 2006
    #13
  14. Xavier Maillard, Sep 2, 2006
    #14
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