The Spammers Have Really Trashed This NG.

K

Karl Uppiano

The spammers have really trashed this forum, and I can find no effective way
to filter them out. Is there a moderated version of this NG anywhere?
 
M

markspace

Karl said:
The spammers have really trashed this forum, and I can find no effective
way to filter them out. Is there a moderated version of this NG anywhere?


The trick to spammer is to use your killfile (K in Thunderbird) to
remove unwanted threads. As long as you do that proactively, there's
only a few spam each day to remove. It's not too bad.
 
A

Andrew Thompson

The trick to spammer is to use your killfile (K in Thunderbird) to
remove unwanted threads.  As long as you do that proactively, there's
only a few spam each day to remove.  It's not too bad.

I did a quick count of spam posts across the first 3
pages of c.l.j.p. as it is represented in GG. The 1st
page had 8, the 2nd 16, and the 3rd 19 out of 30 posts.
That is 43/90, or almost 50%. *

And that was not counting those trollish posts based
on the "Computer Programming Job in CA" idiot thread.

Is it possible your news server is taking some effort
to suppress spam posts?

* Yeah, yeah.. "Lies, damned lies & statistics."
 
L

Lew

The trick to spammer is to use your killfile (K in Thunderbird) to
remove unwanted threads. As long as you do that proactively, there's
only a few spam each day to remove. It's not too bad.

You can also use even Thunderbird's relatively limited killfile ability to
filter out 163.com, various twisted aliases and the like. I use T-bird and
very little spam is visible that way. (Of course, it's all visible via GG,
but that's GG for you.) Other news clients have even more powerful filtering,
but Thunderbird's is generally sufficient.
 
S

Series Expansion

I did a quick count of spam posts across the first 3
pages of c.l.j.p. as it is represented in GG.  The 1st
page had 8, the 2nd 16, and the 3rd 19 out of 30 posts.
That is 43/90, or almost 50%. *

And that was not counting those trollish posts based
on the "Computer Programming Job in CA" idiot thread.

These tiresome personal attacks do not constitute rational arguments
in favor of either Lisp or Java, Andrew.
 
L

Lew

Andrew said:
I did a quick count of spam posts across the first 3
pages of c.l.j.p. as it is represented in GG. The 1st
page had 8, the 2nd 16, and the 3rd 19 out of 30 posts.
That is 43/90, or almost 50%. *

And that was not counting those trollish posts based
on the "Computer Programming Job in CA" idiot thread.

Is it possible your news server is taking some effort
to suppress spam posts?

If your are referring to markspace's remarks, he did mention using
Thunderbird's spam filter and thus doesn't particularly need to have the ISP
suppress spam posts.

AFAIK no news server makes any real effort to filter spam posts.
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

Series said:
These tiresome personal attacks do not constitute rational arguments
in favor of either Lisp or Java, Andrew.

I don't think he intended to argue Java over Lisp or the other
way around.

For some weird reason I think he arguing about the level of spam
here.

Really weird what one can conclude when reading what one is replying
to.

Arne
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

Lew said:
If your are referring to markspace's remarks, he did mention using
Thunderbird's spam filter and thus doesn't particularly need to have the
ISP suppress spam posts.

AFAIK no news server makes any real effort to filter spam posts.

I don't think anyone want them to do that.

Any type of filter has a certain probability of false
positive.

And that is a lot easier to handle if the filter is as
close to the user as possible.

Newsreader : ok

Server being accessed : ok, if there is a mechanism to find the filtered

Servers longer down the chain : not OK

Arne
 
A

Andrew Thompson

I don't think it is possible to create a bulletproof spam filter.

The post I linked was not about 'spam' per-se, just
filtering.

And as an aside (glances up-thread), /please/ refrain
from feeding the troll. I was about to make a dismissive
'yeah, whatever dude' reply when I realised I just could
not be bothered.
 
L

Lew

This thread is not about the relative benefits of Lisp vs. Java.

Or did you ignore the subject line, "Series Expansion"?

(That's a rhetorical question, BTW. I neither expect nor will read your answer.)

Furthermore, if you read Andrew's post, you'd see that there was no "personal
attack", or even any personal remark - he simply said,
> And that was not counting those trollish posts based
> on the "Computer Programming Job in CA" idiot thread.

See? Even you should be able to tell that he was commenting on posts, not
people, and that he didn't mention which posts or authors were involved.

If the shoe fits, wear it. That you felt compelled to respond clearly
indicates that you realized that his criticism applied to your posts. (But
not to you, personally, of course.)
I don't think he intended to argue Java over Lisp or the other
way around.

For some weird reason I think he arguing about the level of spam
here.

Really weird what one can conclude when reading what one is replying
to.

Really weird that trolls think anyone will buy into their false logic, such as
misrepresentation of the subject of the thread, or projection of being
"tiresome" onto others.
 
L

Lew

Andrew said:

For those not using Google Groups, as I'm not at this moment, he's citing my
message in the "macros" thread wherein I said:
I'm not sure how this topic made it through my filters
but I'll block it again.

I had used Thunderbird's "K" command to block that thread, but somewhere along
the line someone must have broken their connection to the thread, or else it
got too old for T-bird to recognize, or something.

As Arne and others have said or implied (e.g., in my post where I said
"generally sufficient"), 100% filtering isn't necessary, particularly if one
wishes to avoid false positives. T-bird has the least of spam filters that
actually suffices, and it does, at least to keep the noise down to acceptable
levels. It isn't perfect, nor needs to be, really.

It also doesn't stop me from seeing others' quotes of killfiled entries, as my
reply upthread to Arne Vajhøj's reply to "Series Expansion" illustrates.
 
M

Martin Gregorie

I don't think it is possible to create a bulletproof spam filter.
If you're using one of the Unices, Pan has pretty good spam filtering -
certainly good enough to killfile pestiferous posters and/or threads.

For Windows users, I used to reckon that Forte's Agent was best of breed,
though you needed to register it (which costs a few dollars) to activate
its killfile facility. If I was still a Windows user, I'd be using Agent
for USENET.

Obligatory Java comment: the JavaMail package can read and write
newsgroups, so a keen person might well write their own newsreader if
they can't find one they like. I seriously thought about doing that a
year or so back, but then Pan got a facelift.
 
L

Lothar Kimmeringer

Andrew said:
I did a quick count of spam posts across the first 3
pages of c.l.j.p. as it is represented in GG.

GG is not a good place to do that. First, there are systems
canceling spam (if it exceed the BI-coefficient) but GG
ignores cancels so using GG you see all the filth that
others don't see at all. Second, much of the spam originates
from GG, so one easy way to get rid off it is filtering
out postings from GG (in fact, I know of people that
actually do that)
Is it possible your news server is taking some effort
to suppress spam posts?

It's vice versa. GG is one of the providers that don't
do anything against. In fact, calling GG a news provider
would be wrong. It's an archive with a "response"-feature,
but nothing more. They nearly got an UDP for their (lack
of) abuse-management.


Regards, Lothar
--
Lothar Kimmeringer E-Mail: (e-mail address removed)
PGP-encrypted mails preferred (Key-ID: 0x8BC3CD81)

Always remember: The answer is forty-two, there can only be wrong
questions!
 
L

Lothar Kimmeringer

Lothar said:
GG is not a good place to do that. First, there are systems
canceling spam (if it exceed the BI-coefficient) but GG
ignores cancels so using GG you see all the filth that
others don't see at all.

If you don't believe me, check if you can see the following
message <in ec.games.chess.misc. That's the last post that was canceled
when I was checking the corresponding control-group about five
minutes ago. Here is the complete cancel-post:

| From: bleachbot <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups: rec.games.chess.misc
| Subject: cmsg cancel <ee5cdb4a-aa05-4b7a-8eea-42af315f62d6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
| Control: cancel <ee5cdb4a-aa05-4b7a-8eea-42af315f62d6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
| Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 23:05:56 +0200
| Organization: Nowhere Corp.
| Lines: 0
| Sender: "www.HipHopUrbanClothes.com" <[email protected]>
| Approved: (e-mail address removed)
| Message-ID: <cancel.c461.ee5cdb4a-aa05-4b7a-8eea-42af315f62d6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
| X-Trace: news.httrack.net 1247432756 12864 192.168.1.100 (12 Jul 2009 21:05:56 GMT)
| X-Complaints-To: (e-mail address removed)
| NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:05:56 +0000 (UTC)
| X-Mailer: bleachbot
| X-Hash: a2b7cfbe
| X-Cancelled-By: (e-mail address removed)
| X-Spam-Type: spam
| X-No-Archive: Yes
| Archive: No
| X-Original-From: "www.HipHopUrbanClothes.com" <[email protected]>
| X-Original-Newsgroups: rec.games.chess.misc
| X-Original-Subject: Cheap Juicy Couture Handbags,Replica Fendi Purse )hiphopurbanclothes.com
| X-Original-Message-ID: <ee5cdb4a-aa05-4b7a-8eea-42af315f62d6@a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com>
| X-Original-Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 14:05:56 -0700 (PDT)
| X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 125.78.224.168
| X-Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1247432756 2014 127.0.0.1 (12 Jul 2009 21:05:56 GMT)
| X-Original-Organization: http://groups.google.com
| X-Original-Path: ...!news2.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!a39g2000pre.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
| X-Comment-1: This message is a cancel message, aimed to delete spams spotted
| X-Comment-2: by the bleachbot anti-spam bot. You should not see this message,
| X-Comment-3: as it is part of internal control messages sent on Usenet. If you
| X-Comment-4: do, you are using a misconfigured server, and you should report
| X-Comment-5: the issue to your news administrator.
| X-Comment-6: If you wish to use a more secure way of hiding spam, you can also
| X-Comment-7: ask your server to use the the NoCeM system (see
| X-Comment-8: http://home.httrack.net/~nocem/), or you can use it directly on
| X-Comment-9: news clients such as Gnus.
| X-Nocem-Notice-ID: 723770dd8f208c46
| X-Nocem-Notice-Message-ID: <[email protected]>
| X-Nocem-Info: http://home.httrack.net/~nocem/
| Path: news.online.de!feed.news.schlund.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.straub-nv.de!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!usenet-fr.net!feed.ac-versailles.fr!porbandar.httrack.net!montbard.httrack.net!news.httrack.net!bleachbot!bleachbot!cyberspam!usenet!not-for-mail
| Xref: news.online.de control.cancel:31986671


Regards, Lothar
--
Lothar Kimmeringer E-Mail: (e-mail address removed)
PGP-encrypted mails preferred (Key-ID: 0x8BC3CD81)

Always remember: The answer is forty-two, there can only be wrong
questions!
 
A

Andrew Thompson

For those not using Google Groups, as I'm not at this moment, he's citing my
message in the "macros" thread wherein I said:

Yeah, I'd wondered what could be so compelling
about that thread as to make /you/ respond. I
opened and glanced at your reply (having ignored
the sub-threads for quite a while) to be pleasantly
reassured that it was merely to comment on the
(continued) inanity it contained.
I had used Thunderbird's "K" command to block that thread, but somewhere along
the line someone must have broken their connection to the thread, or else it
got too old for T-bird to recognize, or something.

As Arne and others have said or implied (e.g., in my post where I said
"generally sufficient"), 100% filtering isn't necessary, particularly if one
wishes to avoid false positives.  T-bird has the least of spam filters that
actually suffices, and it does, at least to keep the noise down to acceptable
levels.  It isn't perfect, nor needs to be, really.

It also doesn't stop me from seeing others' quotes of killfiled entries, as my
reply upthread to Arne Vajhøj's reply to "Series Expansion" illustrates..

OK, ..OK! Did you miss the ';)'?
 
K

Karl Uppiano

markspace said:
The trick to spammer is to use your killfile (K in Thunderbird) to remove
unwanted threads. As long as you do that proactively, there's only a few
spam each day to remove. It's not too bad.

I use that approach from time to time, but what do you think of the idea of
a moderated version of this group?
 
A

Andrew Thompson

...but what do you think of the idea of
a moderated version of this group?

Not much, personally. AFAIU, it is next to impossible
to convert an unmoderated usenet newsgroup to a moderated
one. (But then, rereading your words..) I guess it
would be easier to establish an entirely *new*
moderated group.

But who is offering to moderate this group? I had
participated in some sci.space groups that 'moderated
themselves to death' (as I saw it), and am not
too keen on the concept. It was not just that
posts were rejected, but that accepted posts would
take significantly longer to appear, and the
entire course of threads would grind to a crawl.
When the posts came through, there would often be
20+ posts of people repeating the same basic reply.

OTOH I have gotten used to the restrictions of the
Sun web based forums, since posts appear /immediately/,
but can be effectively blocked or cancelled by mods
after the fact (which is impossible to do, with usenet).
And while we are here, discussing spam specifically,
note that spam is quickly killed on the Sun forums.

What with the difficulties of making a moderated
technical newsgroup work effectively, and the plethora
of web-based forums that are actually quite effective
at killing spam, I really do not see a moderated usenet
group gaining much of a niche.
 

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