The truth about css and W3C

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Henry, Jan 6, 2005.

  1. Henry

    Henry Guest

    Jukka Korpella K wrote:


    > Well, for some definition of "reference". The problem is that the W3C
    > doesn't work like a standards body. Take a look at
    > http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/#specs
    > titled "CSS Specifications". What have we got here?
    > CSS 3 is _under development_ (actually, a collection of drafts)
    > CSS 2.1 is "candidate recommendation"
    > CSS 1 is the good old specification approved in 1996, later
    > modified in 1999, never actually implemented as such, and
    > in some essential ways in conflict with CSS 2 (though
    > most a subset thereof)
    >
    > So where's CSS 2? They don't even bother mentioning it there.
    > It _is_ a W3C recommendation, but you need to find it through other
    > paths, and this gives a hint of the W3C's real position on it.
    >
    > -- Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html





    Add to that a shitload of IE bugs and what we have? A hell in web design
    field.

    In this light saying, "you have to do this or that" or "you shouldn't
    use a tables for layout" is a pure idiocy and those who PREACH that,
    they are PREACHERS, not teachers.

    It's a rule of the jungle, so nothing really is right or wrong.

    The proper attitude should be... "you could consider use css..."

    Anything else like "this is wrong" is not appropriate.

    Wrong by who's authority?

    Personally I love css but I think I'll replace <div> with <table>.

    Much better IMHO.

    Anybody else? Let the do what THEY think is working for them.

    They are not WRONG. They doing it different way.

    ;)
     
    Henry, Jan 6, 2005
    #1
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  2. Henry

    Uncle Pirate Guest

    Henry wrote:
    > Add to that a shitload of IE bugs and what we have? A hell in web design
    > field.
    >
    > In this light saying, "you have to do this or that" or "you shouldn't
    > use a tables for layout" is a pure idiocy and those who PREACH that,
    > they are PREACHERS, not teachers.


    I teach the recommendations and recommend using them. At the end of my
    beginner's HTML class, I then told the students: "I've taught you the
    "rules" (recommendations) which I required you to use during this class.
    Outside of this class, you now know the "rules" and are free to break
    them as you see fit."

    >
    > It's a rule of the jungle, so nothing really is right or wrong.
    >
    > The proper attitude should be... "you could consider use css..."


    Not without teaching why they should consider css. That was my point
    throughout my class last semester; I taught how to write valid HTML 4.01
    along with css and taught them how to follow recommendations. I taught
    the reasons behind a lot of the recommendations showing them some very
    unwieldy code (huge nested tables) generated by Netscape Composer 4.x
    and how much simpler it was using valid markup. My requirement on all
    assignments was that the student pages must validate to HTML 4.01 strict.

    I had one student that I had marked off for using a deprecated <center>
    element tell me later that he would probably use it after the class was
    over because it's easier than styling. I don't agree but I told him
    that now that he knows what what the recommendations are and a lot of
    the meaning/reason for the various recommendations, he was free to do as
    he wished after the class. He agreed that requiring use of only a text
    editor the first half semester helped him to learn HTML and now knows
    how to fix the screw ups that he'll find when using whatever graphical
    editor he decides on. He continued that he would probably validate to
    4.01 transitional so he could use the <center> element.

    >
    > Anything else like "this is wrong" is not appropriate.
    >
    > Wrong by who's authority?


    When teaching, guidelines must be set based upon something. Much the
    same is true of life in general and applies to creating a web page too.
    Do you not judge your own work against some criterion? And if you're
    in the business, you cannot help but judge (at least somewhat) others'
    work by that same criterion.

    >
    > Personally I love css but I think I'll replace <div> with <table>.


    Theres nothing wrong with that but having maintained both, I find <div>
    much easier to envision and thus markup.

    >
    > Much better IMHO.
    >
    > Anybody else? Let the do what THEY think is working for them.
    >
    > They are not WRONG. They doing it different way.
    >
    > ;)


    Basically, I think we agree. I have a little different perspective though.

    --
    Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
    Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
    Cooordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
    '94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) :( http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
    A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein
     
    Uncle Pirate, Jan 6, 2005
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  3. Henry

    Henry Guest

    Uncle Pirate wrote:


    > Basically, I think we agree. I have a little different perspective though.




    I think I've read from you the most balanced post ever posted on this
    religious group, erroneously called alt.html.

    I would call it - alt.cult.css

    Attitudes of most posters here are perfect for a new cult.

    They are preaching dogma after dogma...

    BTW. That's why I'm learning css here and other places because I have to
    know where and how I can break these rules.

    Great post.


    :)
     
    Henry, Jan 6, 2005
    #3
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