The very, very strang thing (tables)

N

Nicole

Hi users,


I have this side (just the top menue is to look at):
http://www.tigertradingclub.com.serv12.server-center.de/tradestation_bestellen.shtml

I want the whole menue to be firm, wherever you click.

Please focus the
.. top menue
.. the third line of it
.. the very right button.

The strange thing is: SOMETIMES the menue is firm, but SOMETIMES the menue gets a push on clicking this button.

The really strange thing is: Opera shows in the first window this ugly push-effect. As I open the second Opera browser window - the push-effect is gone.

Does somebody have a hint for me?
The width of the tables shall stay 100% to adapt to many screens.


The same push effect, I have here with Firefox:
http://www.tigertradingclub.com.serv12.server-center.de/club_aktuell.shtml

Second line of menue, very right button again.




Thanks for hints!
Nicole
 
A

Andy

"Nicole" <Wagner> wrote in message Hi users,


I have this side (just the top menue is to look at):
http://www.tigertradingclub.com.serv12.server-center.de/tradestation_bestellen.shtml

I want the whole menue to be firm, wherever you click.

Please focus the
.. top menue
.. the third line of it
.. the very right button.

The strange thing is: SOMETIMES the menue is firm, but SOMETIMES the menue
gets a push on clicking this button.

The really strange thing is: Opera shows in the first window this ugly
push-effect. As I open the second Opera browser window - the push-effect is
gone.

Does somebody have a hint for me?
The width of the tables shall stay 100% to adapt to many screens.


The same push effect, I have here with Firefox:
http://www.tigertradingclub.com.serv12.server-center.de/club_aktuell.shtml

Second line of menue, very right button again.




Thanks for hints!
Nicole


Hi Nicole,

I couldn't replicate the error on the urls you posted but I have experienced
this issue before. Use the following example to solve...

<style>
table.fix { table-layout:fixed; }
</style>

<!-- Put style declarations in your stylesheet if you want -->

<table class="fix">

<!-- Then just add the class tag to your table(s) -->


Hope this helps

Andy
 
N

Nicole

Andy wrote:

I couldn't replicate the error on the urls you posted but I have experienced this issue before. Use the following example to solve...

<style>
table.fix { table-layout:fixed; }
</style>


thank you for your reply.
It would help.
But it has the disadvantage, that the cell-width does not adapt to the text-length any more.


Nicole
 
A

Andy

I looked at this page before and didn't see any problem using Firefox
3.0.6. However, after reading your last post and looking very carefully
at the menu when during menu clicks, I see the selected menu item
shrinks in width by about 1 character.

Examining your source code, it seems you are changing the attribute of
the menu item from td to th when active. If I replace the css in the
.table-navi2 th class with that of A:link, the size is identical. The
problem therefor seems to be the css in the .table-navi2 th section.

Regards,

--
Wayne
bayareabluegrass.org
"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for
reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." [Albert Einstein]


Good catch Wayne, I didn't spot that.

Andy
 
N

Nicole

Thank you very much for your observations!
It is really a tricky thing and I appreciate, that you take time to have a close look at it.

The td and th thing:
I want to have a navigation bar, which is different on each side.
The tds contain the links and th contains the location itsself.
This means e.g.

side 1 says:
<th>I am side 1</th>
<td>link to side 2</td>
<td>link to side 3</td>

side 2 says:
<td>link to side 1</td>
<th>I am side 2</th>
<td>link to side 3</td>

side 3 says:
<td>link to side 1</td>
<td>link to side 2</td>
<th>I am side 3</th>


What does this mean to my stylesheet?
The user shall be able to identify the th as part of the menue, but he shall recognice by the style as well, that his very th is something different of the td.

In other words, the user shall recognize by the menue-style:
"Oh, I am at one of 3 grouped sides and my very one is the number 2!"

For this very purpose, I did the td and th, "the same" and "differently" at the same time. I left the text-size the same, but changed the backgroud color from grey to white. And I changed color and witdh of the cell-borders.

But perhaps I made a wrong choice?

Here is the style-sheet class in CSS:

..table-navi2
{
width:100%;
background-color:#C0C0C0;
}
..table-navi2 td
{
border-style:solid;
border-width:3px;
border-spacing:7px;
border-color:#C0C0C0;
background-color:#E5E5E5;
text-align:center;
font-size:110%;
padding:7px;
}
..table-navi2 th
{
border-style:solid;
border-width:2px;
border-spacing:9px;
border-color:#228B22;
background-color:#FFFFFF;
text-align:center;
font-size:110%;
padding:7px;
}


Thank you so much for reading such a long posting!


Nicole
 
T

Travis Newbury

Hi users,

Nicole, (love the name by the way, my daughter is Nichole with an "h")

Do yourself a favor and either hire a designer or learn design
skills. I am not talking about your html or css, have at it, and
listen to the experts here. But your site looks like hell. With the
single exception of caddy's site yours has to be the worst combination
of colors I have ever seen. (and Chaddy is blind)

You know, your site might be the best technically correct website on
the entire internet, but if it looks like crap, people are going to
assume that everything you sell/offer is of the same quality.

Websites are kind of like James Bond movies. Crappy theme song =
crappy bond movie. Crappy looking web page = crappy products and
services. It is the same everywhere you look. And while a lot of
those in this group might disagree, presentation of the content is
equally as important as the content itself. Sorry, that's life. We
all judge things based on our perceptions.

Please don't read this as mean. But a rose is a rose...
 
A

Awful Dog Autry

You know, your site might be the best technically correct website on
the entire internet,

Tables for layout and tbl hdrs in non-header usage?
Yeah.
 
D

dorayme

...

The td and th thing:
I want to have a navigation bar, which is different on each side.
The tds contain the links and th contains the location itsself.
This means e.g.

side 1 says:
<th>I am side 1</th>
<td>link to side 2</td>
<td>link to side 3</td>

side 2 says:
<td>link to side 1</td>
<th>I am side 2</th>
....


Looking at just this, perhaps it is a frame-like structure you are
aiming for with tables in each frame. This is easy to do but probably
not that wise unless you have a very special purpose that cannot be done
otherwise.

if you are not talking frames but one big table on a page, what would it
mean for a link in one col of a table to be "to" something in another
column in HTML?

You do not quote any real context in this post, who you are replying to
etc... perhaps you think everyone has on and offline thread newsreaders?
A th is a table heading, you have some headings in the middle and end of
your proposed tables, rather odd.
 
N

Nicole

Travis Newbury wrote:


....the worst combination
of colors I have ever seen. (and Chaddy is blind)


Thank you for your feedback.
I AGREE with you, that I will not sell much, if the colors are ugly.

On my computer the colors look in harmony and good.
If you say, they look awfully, you see something different.


So you feedback is extremly important to me:

Can you please be more specific?
What browser+version and what graphic card (laptop?) do you use, which part on earth you live in?
Which color or color-combination do you refer to?

This was my intention:
background: very light yellow to beige
font: very dark green, close to black
menues: grey and white and everything between

highlights: red, but just in the directions of orange and brown.
table-borders: green of the fonts and a little brighter

Nothing wrong with this colors, - but I bet, you see different ones.

Perhaps you can have a look at my published side as well:
http://TigerTradingClub.com


The unpublished concept is what you saw:
http://www.tigertradingclub.com.serv12.server-center.de/index.shtml


Every feedback appreciated!




Nicole
 
D

dorayme

Perhaps you can have a look at my published side as well:
http://TigerTradingClub.com


The unpublished concept is what you saw:
http://www.tigertradingclub.com.serv12.server-center.de/index.shtml


Every feedback appreciated!

Too much room is given to the left side logo, the main menu grid has to
be horizontally scrolled for.

Check the validation at

<http://validator.w3.org/>

and seriously look at

<http://jigsaw.w3.org/> for CSS errors.

No need to use transitional doctype when you can use strict.
 
N

Nicole

wayne said:
Try changing :
.table-navi2 td
{
border-style:solid;
border-width:3px;

border-width to 2px, the same as:

.table-navi2 th
{
border-style:solid;
border-width:2px;

or both border-width to 3px, just so they are teh same. If there is still a change, you might want to look at font-weight: bold in the A:Link section.

Make sure border-spacing is the same between the two as well.




SOLVED!!

Wayne: Thank you for your feedback.
I changed both, the font and the cellspacing. I did it for good style, thank you for seeing that.

But nothing of this was the reason of the trouble.
You will be suprised to hear the reason:

The reason was the font-size of the first headline.

As the font-size differs slightly from browser to browser and from resolution to resolution every browser and window gave a different result. Some made the flicker and some didn't. So I saw it sometimes and you not or too.

This is behind:
We had a long h1-headline and no text.
The whole text-content stands in a cell's table. So the h1-headline by itsself makes the width of the cell. If the font-size is a little bit larger by occasion, the long head-line text will stretch its cell and give the whole table a flicker.
The menue did not flicker, because there was any error in it, but because the cell below(!) gained some pixeles in width.



Nicole
 
D

David Segall

Travis Newbury said:
Nicole, (love the name by the way, my daughter is Nichole with an "h")

Do yourself a favor and either hire a designer or learn design
skills. I am not talking about your html or css, have at it, and
listen to the experts here. But your site looks like hell. With the
single exception of caddy's site yours has to be the worst combination
of colors I have ever seen. (and Chaddy is blind)

You know, your site might be the best technically correct website on
the entire internet, but if it looks like crap, people are going to
assume that everything you sell/offer is of the same quality.

Websites are kind of like James Bond movies. Crappy theme song =
crappy bond movie. Crappy looking web page = crappy products and
services. It is the same everywhere you look. And while a lot of
those in this group might disagree, presentation of the content is
equally as important as the content itself. Sorry, that's life. We
all judge things based on our perceptions.

Please don't read this as mean.
It _is_ mean. You have withheld any practical advice on how to improve
the colours in favour of a lecture on the "bleeding obvious" point
that web sites should look attractive.

I believe that you do not intend to be mean but that you are unable to
express your visual design skills in technical terms. Instead of a
useless post telling the OP that they have the second worst colour
scheme on the Internet why not spend half an hour finding a web site
that explains how to use colour in a way that you agree with. Then,
either use the information to translate your feelings into useful
advice or simply refer the poster to the site.
 
T

Travis Newbury

I AGREE with you, that I will not sell much, if the colors are ugly.
On my computer the colors look in harmony and good.
If you say, they look awfully, you see something different.

Flesh, off orange, and gray. Go to kuler.adobe.com (or a similar
site) They have tools that help you choose colors.
So you feedback is extremly important to me:

really? or are you just saying that to be nice...
 
T

Travis Newbury

It _is_ mean. You have withheld any practical advice on how to improve
the colours in favour of a lecture on the "bleeding obvious" point
that web sites should look attractive.

"hire a designer or take a class". That's my advice.

I believe that you do not intend to be mean but that you are unable to
express your visual design skills in technical terms.

I can not tell her what colors to choose. I can only tell her that
the ones she DID choose look like hell to me. There is no technical
term for "looks like hell" (unless "shit" is a technical term....)
Instead of a
useless post telling the OP that they have the second worst colour
scheme on the Internet why not spend half an hour finding a web site
that explains how to use colour in a way that you agree with.

Did that in a follow up when asked for specifics. www.kuler.adobe.com.
 
D

dorayme

Travis Newbury said:
I can not tell her what colors to choose. I can only tell her that
the ones she DID choose look like hell to me.

Yes, that is the trouble, you don't see: you are too focussed on
yourself instead of others and their feelings. I thought you were
totally unnecessarily beastly to the OP frankly, you took a completely
unnecessary swipe at a blind man at one stage, and David Segall's
response to you was perfectly accurate and wise. You are a schmuck of
the first waters.
 
T

Travis Newbury

Yes, that is the trouble, you don't see: you are too focussed on
yourself instead of others and their feelings.

Shit stinks no matter how much perfume you put on it. And I like to
point out the shit.
 
T

Travis Newbury

Yes, that is the trouble, you don't see: you are too focussed on
yourself instead of others and their feelings.

You know what? Your right, I really don't give a shit about anyone
elses feelings. I would rather tell them the truth EVEN if it hurts.
We can't call an obese person obese any more because it makes them
feel bad. We can't have any kind of humor that, might offend someone,
we might hurt their feelings...

Well I think the world would be a better place if we all started
telling the truth to each other and point out the shit rather than
hiding the truth with nice word so they don't feel bad.

Fat is Fat
Ugly is ugly
shit is shit.

If you use what ever nice words you like to protect someone's
"feelings" in the long run you are hurting them. In the case of
Nicole, if I did not tell her her colors sucked she might think they
are perfectly good. And she might start to think that she was a great
designer because no one told her the truth. Then she goes out to get
a real development job and they laugh at her because her design skill
are awful.

But now, because of my blunt comments, she will go out and improve
herself because she now KNOWS that her skills are lacking.

Obviously you agree with what I say or else you would not have called
me a schmuck. Because you really hurt my feelings with that
statement...
 
D

dorayme

Travis Newbury said:
You know what? Your right, I really don't give a shit about anyone
elses feelings. I would rather tell them the truth EVEN if it hurts. ....
If you use what ever nice words you like to protect someone's
"feelings" in the long run you are hurting them. In the case of
Nicole, if I did not tell her her colors sucked she might think they
are perfectly good. And she might start to think that she was a great
designer because no one told her the truth. ...

But now, because of my blunt comments, she will go out and improve
herself because she now KNOWS that her skills are lacking.

Obviously you agree with what I say or else you would not have called
me a schmuck. Because you really hurt my feelings with that
statement...

I am sorry I hurt your feelings. You did not act like you had any. I
hope you will now be be less of a schmuck and go out and improve
yourself because you should now KNOW that your people skills make you
look like a jerk, to use a goy translation for "schmuck", and that if
you can be blunt and truthful without hurting other people's feelings
more than is needed, you will.

Take Nicole, you had no prior knowledge that she was resistant to
improvement, so you should go in soft. Take you, I have had years of
seeing you totally resistant to all appeals and pleadings to have more
heart and seen how cold and dead yours is. So with you, I risk going in
hard. But now I hear you were hurt, I will back off a touch.

There is nothing wrong with blunt, you confuse it with crassness and
big-noting yourself. You can say frank things that make people rethink
issues without wounding them. I have had reports back from my team of
nurses I sent to be with her after your gross attacks and they have had
quite a management job.

When someone makes it screamingly obvious how honest they are, it is
often a sign of bullshit self-promoting. Now, I know a lot about
self-promotion, hypocrisy and bullshit, pal, so sit up and take notice
from an expert.
 
N

Nicole

Travis said:
Flesh, off orange, and gray. Go to kuler.adobe.com (or a similar
site) They have tools that help you choose colors.


Thank you for the link.
It looks really great.

English is not my native's tongue.
If you say "Flesh, off orange, and gray" - sorry, I cannot find out by these words, what exactly is the problem to you.

Do you think, you can be more verbose?
"Flesh"? "Off organge"?


Thanks,
Nicole
 

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