The very, very strang thing (tables)

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Nicole, Feb 19, 2009.

  1. Nicole

    Nicole Guest

    Hi users,


    I have this side (just the top menue is to look at):
    http://www.tigertradingclub.com.serv12.server-center.de/tradestation_bestellen.shtml

    I want the whole menue to be firm, wherever you click.

    Please focus the
    .. top menue
    .. the third line of it
    .. the very right button.

    The strange thing is: SOMETIMES the menue is firm, but SOMETIMES the menue gets a push on clicking this button.

    The really strange thing is: Opera shows in the first window this ugly push-effect. As I open the second Opera browser window - the push-effect is gone.

    Does somebody have a hint for me?
    The width of the tables shall stay 100% to adapt to many screens.


    The same push effect, I have here with Firefox:
    http://www.tigertradingclub.com.serv12.server-center.de/club_aktuell.shtml

    Second line of menue, very right button again.




    Thanks for hints!
    Nicole
     
    Nicole, Feb 19, 2009
    #1
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  2. Nicole

    Andy Guest

    "Nicole" <Wagner> wrote in message news:...
    Hi users,


    I have this side (just the top menue is to look at):
    http://www.tigertradingclub.com.serv12.server-center.de/tradestation_bestellen.shtml

    I want the whole menue to be firm, wherever you click.

    Please focus the
    .. top menue
    .. the third line of it
    .. the very right button.

    The strange thing is: SOMETIMES the menue is firm, but SOMETIMES the menue
    gets a push on clicking this button.

    The really strange thing is: Opera shows in the first window this ugly
    push-effect. As I open the second Opera browser window - the push-effect is
    gone.

    Does somebody have a hint for me?
    The width of the tables shall stay 100% to adapt to many screens.


    The same push effect, I have here with Firefox:
    http://www.tigertradingclub.com.serv12.server-center.de/club_aktuell.shtml

    Second line of menue, very right button again.




    Thanks for hints!
    Nicole


    Hi Nicole,

    I couldn't replicate the error on the urls you posted but I have experienced
    this issue before. Use the following example to solve...

    <style>
    table.fix { table-layout:fixed; }
    </style>

    <!-- Put style declarations in your stylesheet if you want -->

    <table class="fix">

    <!-- Then just add the class tag to your table(s) -->


    Hope this helps

    Andy
     
    Andy, Feb 21, 2009
    #2
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  3. Nicole

    Nicole Guest

    Andy wrote:


    > I couldn't replicate the error on the urls you posted but I have experienced this issue before. Use the following example to solve...
    >
    > <style>
    > table.fix { table-layout:fixed; }
    > </style>



    thank you for your reply.
    It would help.
    But it has the disadvantage, that the cell-width does not adapt to the text-length any more.


    Nicole
     
    Nicole, Feb 21, 2009
    #3
  4. Nicole

    Andy Guest

    >>
    > I looked at this page before and didn't see any problem using Firefox
    > 3.0.6. However, after reading your last post and looking very carefully
    > at the menu when during menu clicks, I see the selected menu item
    > shrinks in width by about 1 character.
    >
    > Examining your source code, it seems you are changing the attribute of
    > the menu item from td to th when active. If I replace the css in the
    > .table-navi2 th class with that of A:link, the size is identical. The
    > problem therefor seems to be the css in the .table-navi2 th section.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > --
    > Wayne
    > bayareabluegrass.org
    > "If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for
    > reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." [Albert Einstein]



    Good catch Wayne, I didn't spot that.

    Andy
     
    Andy, Feb 22, 2009
    #4
  5. Nicole

    Nicole Guest


    > > I looked at this page before and didn't see any problem using Firefox 3.0.6. However, after reading your last post and looking very carefully at the menu when during menu clicks, I see the selected menu item shrinks in width by about 1 character.
    > >
    > > Examining your source code, it seems you are changing the attribute of the menu item from td to th when active. If I replace the css in the ..table-navi2 th class with that of A:link, the size is identical. The problem therefor seems to be the css in the .table-navi2 th section.




    Thank you very much for your observations!
    It is really a tricky thing and I appreciate, that you take time to have a close look at it.

    The td and th thing:
    I want to have a navigation bar, which is different on each side.
    The tds contain the links and th contains the location itsself.
    This means e.g.

    side 1 says:
    <th>I am side 1</th>
    <td>link to side 2</td>
    <td>link to side 3</td>

    side 2 says:
    <td>link to side 1</td>
    <th>I am side 2</th>
    <td>link to side 3</td>

    side 3 says:
    <td>link to side 1</td>
    <td>link to side 2</td>
    <th>I am side 3</th>


    What does this mean to my stylesheet?
    The user shall be able to identify the th as part of the menue, but he shall recognice by the style as well, that his very th is something different of the td.

    In other words, the user shall recognize by the menue-style:
    "Oh, I am at one of 3 grouped sides and my very one is the number 2!"

    For this very purpose, I did the td and th, "the same" and "differently" at the same time. I left the text-size the same, but changed the backgroud color from grey to white. And I changed color and witdh of the cell-borders.

    But perhaps I made a wrong choice?

    Here is the style-sheet class in CSS:

    ..table-navi2
    {
    width:100%;
    background-color:#C0C0C0;
    }
    ..table-navi2 td
    {
    border-style:solid;
    border-width:3px;
    border-spacing:7px;
    border-color:#C0C0C0;
    background-color:#E5E5E5;
    text-align:center;
    font-size:110%;
    padding:7px;
    }
    ..table-navi2 th
    {
    border-style:solid;
    border-width:2px;
    border-spacing:9px;
    border-color:#228B22;
    background-color:#FFFFFF;
    text-align:center;
    font-size:110%;
    padding:7px;
    }


    Thank you so much for reading such a long posting!


    Nicole
     
    Nicole, Feb 24, 2009
    #5
  6. On Feb 19, 5:12 am, "Nicole" <Wagner> wrote:
    > Hi users,


    Nicole, (love the name by the way, my daughter is Nichole with an "h")

    Do yourself a favor and either hire a designer or learn design
    skills. I am not talking about your html or css, have at it, and
    listen to the experts here. But your site looks like hell. With the
    single exception of caddy's site yours has to be the worst combination
    of colors I have ever seen. (and Chaddy is blind)

    You know, your site might be the best technically correct website on
    the entire internet, but if it looks like crap, people are going to
    assume that everything you sell/offer is of the same quality.

    Websites are kind of like James Bond movies. Crappy theme song =
    crappy bond movie. Crappy looking web page = crappy products and
    services. It is the same everywhere you look. And while a lot of
    those in this group might disagree, presentation of the content is
    equally as important as the content itself. Sorry, that's life. We
    all judge things based on our perceptions.

    Please don't read this as mean. But a rose is a rose...
     
    Travis Newbury, Feb 24, 2009
    #6
  7. On 24 Feb 2009, Travis Newbury <> wrote:

    > On Feb 19, 5:12 am, "Nicole" <Wagner> wrote:
    >> Hi users,


    > You know, your site might be the best technically correct website on
    > the entire internet,


    Tables for layout and tbl hdrs in non-header usage?
    Yeah.


    --
    Awful Dog Autry
     
    Awful Dog Autry, Feb 24, 2009
    #7
  8. Nicole

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    Travis Newbury <> wrote:

    > Websites are kind of like James Bond movies. Crappy


    .... but my, how the latter make money.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Feb 24, 2009
    #8
  9. Nicole

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>, "Nicole" <Wagner> wrote:

    > > > ...

    >
    > ...
    >
    > The td and th thing:
    > I want to have a navigation bar, which is different on each side.
    > The tds contain the links and th contains the location itsself.
    > This means e.g.
    >
    > side 1 says:
    > <th>I am side 1</th>
    > <td>link to side 2</td>
    > <td>link to side 3</td>
    >
    > side 2 says:
    > <td>link to side 1</td>
    > <th>I am side 2</th>

    ....


    Looking at just this, perhaps it is a frame-like structure you are
    aiming for with tables in each frame. This is easy to do but probably
    not that wise unless you have a very special purpose that cannot be done
    otherwise.

    if you are not talking frames but one big table on a page, what would it
    mean for a link in one col of a table to be "to" something in another
    column in HTML?

    You do not quote any real context in this post, who you are replying to
    etc... perhaps you think everyone has on and offline thread newsreaders?
    A th is a table heading, you have some headings in the middle and end of
    your proposed tables, rather odd.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Feb 24, 2009
    #9
  10. Nicole

    Nicole Guest

    Travis Newbury wrote:


    ....the worst combination
    > of colors I have ever seen. (and Chaddy is blind)
    >



    Thank you for your feedback.
    I AGREE with you, that I will not sell much, if the colors are ugly.

    On my computer the colors look in harmony and good.
    If you say, they look awfully, you see something different.


    So you feedback is extremly important to me:

    Can you please be more specific?
    What browser+version and what graphic card (laptop?) do you use, which part on earth you live in?
    Which color or color-combination do you refer to?

    This was my intention:
    background: very light yellow to beige
    font: very dark green, close to black
    menues: grey and white and everything between

    highlights: red, but just in the directions of orange and brown.
    table-borders: green of the fonts and a little brighter

    Nothing wrong with this colors, - but I bet, you see different ones.

    Perhaps you can have a look at my published side as well:
    http://TigerTradingClub.com


    The unpublished concept is what you saw:
    http://www.tigertradingclub.com.serv12.server-center.de/index.shtml


    Every feedback appreciated!




    Nicole
     
    Nicole, Feb 25, 2009
    #10
  11. Nicole

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>, "Nicole" <Wagner> wrote:

    > Perhaps you can have a look at my published side as well:
    > http://TigerTradingClub.com
    >
    >
    > The unpublished concept is what you saw:
    > http://www.tigertradingclub.com.serv12.server-center.de/index.shtml
    >
    >
    > Every feedback appreciated!


    Too much room is given to the left side logo, the main menu grid has to
    be horizontally scrolled for.

    Check the validation at

    <http://validator.w3.org/>

    and seriously look at

    <http://jigsaw.w3.org/> for CSS errors.

    No need to use transitional doctype when you can use strict.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Feb 25, 2009
    #11
  12. Nicole

    Nicole Guest

    wayne wrote:

    > Try changing :
    > .table-navi2 td
    > {
    > border-style:solid;
    > border-width:3px;
    >
    > border-width to 2px, the same as:
    >
    > .table-navi2 th
    > {
    > border-style:solid;
    > border-width:2px;
    >
    > or both border-width to 3px, just so they are teh same. If there is still a change, you might want to look at font-weight: bold in the A:Link section.
    >
    > Make sure border-spacing is the same between the two as well.





    SOLVED!!

    Wayne: Thank you for your feedback.
    I changed both, the font and the cellspacing. I did it for good style, thank you for seeing that.

    But nothing of this was the reason of the trouble.
    You will be suprised to hear the reason:

    The reason was the font-size of the first headline.

    As the font-size differs slightly from browser to browser and from resolution to resolution every browser and window gave a different result. Some made the flicker and some didn't. So I saw it sometimes and you not or too.

    This is behind:
    We had a long h1-headline and no text.
    The whole text-content stands in a cell's table. So the h1-headline by itsself makes the width of the cell. If the font-size is a little bit larger by occasion, the long head-line text will stretch its cell and give the whole table a flicker.
    The menue did not flicker, because there was any error in it, but because the cell below(!) gained some pixeles in width.



    Nicole
     
    Nicole, Feb 25, 2009
    #12
  13. Nicole

    David Segall Guest

    Travis Newbury <> wrote:

    >On Feb 19, 5:12 am, "Nicole" <Wagner> wrote:
    >> Hi users,

    >
    >Nicole, (love the name by the way, my daughter is Nichole with an "h")
    >
    >Do yourself a favor and either hire a designer or learn design
    >skills. I am not talking about your html or css, have at it, and
    >listen to the experts here. But your site looks like hell. With the
    >single exception of caddy's site yours has to be the worst combination
    >of colors I have ever seen. (and Chaddy is blind)
    >
    >You know, your site might be the best technically correct website on
    >the entire internet, but if it looks like crap, people are going to
    >assume that everything you sell/offer is of the same quality.
    >
    >Websites are kind of like James Bond movies. Crappy theme song =
    >crappy bond movie. Crappy looking web page = crappy products and
    >services. It is the same everywhere you look. And while a lot of
    >those in this group might disagree, presentation of the content is
    >equally as important as the content itself. Sorry, that's life. We
    >all judge things based on our perceptions.
    >
    >Please don't read this as mean.

    It _is_ mean. You have withheld any practical advice on how to improve
    the colours in favour of a lecture on the "bleeding obvious" point
    that web sites should look attractive.

    I believe that you do not intend to be mean but that you are unable to
    express your visual design skills in technical terms. Instead of a
    useless post telling the OP that they have the second worst colour
    scheme on the Internet why not spend half an hour finding a web site
    that explains how to use colour in a way that you agree with. Then,
    either use the information to translate your feelings into useful
    advice or simply refer the poster to the site.
     
    David Segall, Feb 25, 2009
    #13
  14. On Feb 25, 4:33 am, "Nicole" <Wagner> wrote:
    > I AGREE with you, that I will not sell much, if the colors are ugly.
    > On my computer the colors look in harmony and good.
    > If you say, they look awfully, you see something different.


    Flesh, off orange, and gray. Go to kuler.adobe.com (or a similar
    site) They have tools that help you choose colors.

    > So you feedback is extremly important to me:


    really? or are you just saying that to be nice...
     
    Travis Newbury, Feb 25, 2009
    #14
  15. On Feb 25, 7:27 am, David Segall <> wrote:
    > It _is_ mean. You have withheld any practical advice on how to improve
    > the colours in favour of a lecture on the "bleeding obvious" point
    > that web sites should look attractive.


    "hire a designer or take a class". That's my advice.


    > I believe that you do not intend to be mean but that you are unable to
    > express your visual design skills in technical terms.


    I can not tell her what colors to choose. I can only tell her that
    the ones she DID choose look like hell to me. There is no technical
    term for "looks like hell" (unless "shit" is a technical term....)

    > Instead of a
    > useless post telling the OP that they have the second worst colour
    > scheme on the Internet why not spend half an hour finding a web site
    > that explains how to use colour in a way that you agree with.


    Did that in a follow up when asked for specifics. www.kuler.adobe.com.
     
    Travis Newbury, Feb 25, 2009
    #15
  16. Nicole

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    Travis Newbury <> wrote:

    > On Feb 25, 7:27 am, David Segall <> wrote:
    > > It _is_ mean. You have withheld any practical advice on how to improve
    > > the colours in favour of a lecture on the "bleeding obvious" point
    > > that web sites should look attractive.

    ....
    > > I believe that you do not intend to be mean but that you are unable to
    > > express your visual design skills in technical terms.

    >
    > I can not tell her what colors to choose. I can only tell her that
    > the ones she DID choose look like hell to me.


    Yes, that is the trouble, you don't see: you are too focussed on
    yourself instead of others and their feelings. I thought you were
    totally unnecessarily beastly to the OP frankly, you took a completely
    unnecessary swipe at a blind man at one stage, and David Segall's
    response to you was perfectly accurate and wise. You are a schmuck of
    the first waters.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Feb 25, 2009
    #16
  17. On Feb 25, 4:40 pm, dorayme <> wrote:
    > > I can not tell her what colors to choose.  I can only tell her that
    > > the ones she DID choose look like hell to me.  

    > Yes, that is the trouble, you don't see: you are too focussed on
    > yourself instead of others and their feelings.


    Shit stinks no matter how much perfume you put on it. And I like to
    point out the shit.
     
    Travis Newbury, Feb 26, 2009
    #17
  18. On Feb 25, 4:40 pm, dorayme <> wrote:
    > Yes, that is the trouble, you don't see: you are too focussed on
    > yourself instead of others and their feelings.


    You know what? Your right, I really don't give a shit about anyone
    elses feelings. I would rather tell them the truth EVEN if it hurts.
    We can't call an obese person obese any more because it makes them
    feel bad. We can't have any kind of humor that, might offend someone,
    we might hurt their feelings...

    Well I think the world would be a better place if we all started
    telling the truth to each other and point out the shit rather than
    hiding the truth with nice word so they don't feel bad.

    Fat is Fat
    Ugly is ugly
    shit is shit.

    If you use what ever nice words you like to protect someone's
    "feelings" in the long run you are hurting them. In the case of
    Nicole, if I did not tell her her colors sucked she might think they
    are perfectly good. And she might start to think that she was a great
    designer because no one told her the truth. Then she goes out to get
    a real development job and they laugh at her because her design skill
    are awful.

    But now, because of my blunt comments, she will go out and improve
    herself because she now KNOWS that her skills are lacking.

    Obviously you agree with what I say or else you would not have called
    me a schmuck. Because you really hurt my feelings with that
    statement...
     
    Travis Newbury, Feb 26, 2009
    #18
  19. Nicole

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    Travis Newbury <> wrote:

    > On Feb 25, 4:40 pm, dorayme <> wrote:
    > > Yes, that is the trouble, you don't see: you are too focussed on
    > > yourself instead of others and their feelings.

    >
    > You know what? Your right, I really don't give a shit about anyone
    > elses feelings. I would rather tell them the truth EVEN if it hurts.

    ....
    > If you use what ever nice words you like to protect someone's
    > "feelings" in the long run you are hurting them. In the case of
    > Nicole, if I did not tell her her colors sucked she might think they
    > are perfectly good. And she might start to think that she was a great
    > designer because no one told her the truth. ...
    >
    > But now, because of my blunt comments, she will go out and improve
    > herself because she now KNOWS that her skills are lacking.
    >
    > Obviously you agree with what I say or else you would not have called
    > me a schmuck. Because you really hurt my feelings with that
    > statement...


    I am sorry I hurt your feelings. You did not act like you had any. I
    hope you will now be be less of a schmuck and go out and improve
    yourself because you should now KNOW that your people skills make you
    look like a jerk, to use a goy translation for "schmuck", and that if
    you can be blunt and truthful without hurting other people's feelings
    more than is needed, you will.

    Take Nicole, you had no prior knowledge that she was resistant to
    improvement, so you should go in soft. Take you, I have had years of
    seeing you totally resistant to all appeals and pleadings to have more
    heart and seen how cold and dead yours is. So with you, I risk going in
    hard. But now I hear you were hurt, I will back off a touch.

    There is nothing wrong with blunt, you confuse it with crassness and
    big-noting yourself. You can say frank things that make people rethink
    issues without wounding them. I have had reports back from my team of
    nurses I sent to be with her after your gross attacks and they have had
    quite a management job.

    When someone makes it screamingly obvious how honest they are, it is
    often a sign of bullshit self-promoting. Now, I know a lot about
    self-promotion, hypocrisy and bullshit, pal, so sit up and take notice
    from an expert.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Feb 26, 2009
    #19
  20. Nicole

    Nicole Guest

    Travis Newbury wrote:

    > On Feb 25, 4:33 am, "Nicole" <Wagner> wrote:
    > > I AGREE with you, that I will not sell much, if the colors are ugly.
    > > On my computer the colors look in harmony and good.
    > > If you say, they look awfully, you see something different.

    >
    > Flesh, off orange, and gray. Go to kuler.adobe.com (or a similar
    > site) They have tools that help you choose colors.
    >



    Thank you for the link.
    It looks really great.

    English is not my native's tongue.
    If you say "Flesh, off orange, and gray" - sorry, I cannot find out by these words, what exactly is the problem to you.

    Do you think, you can be more verbose?
    "Flesh"? "Off organge"?


    Thanks,
    Nicole
     
    Nicole, Feb 27, 2009
    #20
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