Thoughts and suggestions for our project website

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Ivana Lottaspam, Feb 17, 2008.

  1. Hi everybody,

    Recently, I've finished a small website for a project by our group of
    developers. The basic idea for the project is to attract, harvest and
    analyze spam, but that's not why I'm here (well partly it is, hence the
    email address). Anyway...

    I'd appreciate it very much if anyone who's interested would take a look at
    my website, and post their comments and/or suggestions to improve the site.

    At the moment, there isn't a lot of content yet, since the project has only
    just started.

    Thanks for your time,

    Ivana ()
    --
    Project Haus - Harvesting And Understanding Spam
    http://haus.scienceontheweb.net/
    Ivana Lottaspam, Feb 17, 2008
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Ivana Lottaspam
    <> writing in
    news:Xns9A47EA4DCC656ikkehierbe@69.16.176.253:

    > Hi everybody,
    >
    > Recently, I've finished a small website for a project by our group of
    > developers. The basic idea for the project is to attract, harvest and
    > analyze spam, but that's not why I'm here (well partly it is, hence
    > the email address). Anyway...
    >
    > I'd appreciate it very much if anyone who's interested would take a
    > look at my website, and post their comments and/or suggestions to
    > improve the site.
    >
    > At the moment, there isn't a lot of content yet, since the project has
    > only just started.
    >
    > Thanks for your time,
    >
    > Ivana ()


    1. Stop using pixels for font sizes. Set the body font size at 100%,
    and adjust for various elements, eg. heading elements, legalese, etc.
    The size you have now is too small.
    2. Validate your markup, you have some errors.
    3. Bump the navigation colors up, especially on hover. The contrast is
    not enough and may be difficult for some people to see.

    --
    Adrienne Boswell at Home
    Arbpen Web Site Design Services
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
    Adrienne Boswell, Feb 18, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Ivana Lottaspam

    dorayme Guest

    In article <Xns9A47AC3398C7arbpenyahoocom@69.28.186.121>,
    Adrienne Boswell <> wrote:

    > Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Ivana Lottaspam
    > <> writing in
    > news:Xns9A47EA4DCC656ikkehierbe@69.16.176.253:
    >
    > > Hi everybody,
    > >


    > > Thanks for your time,
    > >
    > > Ivana ()

    >
    > 1. Stop using pixels for font sizes. Set the body font size at 100%,
    > and adjust for various elements, eg. heading elements, legalese, etc.
    > The size you have now is too small.
    > 2. Validate your markup, you have some errors.
    > 3. Bump the navigation colors up, especially on hover. The contrast is
    > not enough and may be difficult for some people to see.


    Where are you seeing this guy's website?

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Feb 18, 2008
    #3
  4. Ivana Lottaspam

    BessieBee Guest


    >I'd appreciate it very much if anyone who's interested would take a look at
    >my website, and post their comments and/or suggestions to improve the site.


    >Ivana ()


    I left your email intact, hope it helps! :)

    Rather bland looking site and font is way too small.

    Am I the only one on this planet that finds "Ads by Google" highly
    annoying?

    LeslieB
    BessieBee, Feb 18, 2008
    #4
  5. Gazing into my crystal ball I observed dorayme
    <> writing in news:doraymeRidThis-
    :

    > In article <Xns9A47AC3398C7arbpenyahoocom@69.28.186.121>,
    > Adrienne Boswell <> wrote:
    >
    >> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Ivana Lottaspam
    >> <> writing in
    >> news:Xns9A47EA4DCC656ikkehierbe@69.16.176.253:
    >>
    >> > Hi everybody,
    >> >

    >
    >> > Thanks for your time,
    >> >
    >> > Ivana ()

    >>
    >> 1. Stop using pixels for font sizes. Set the body font size at 100%,
    >> and adjust for various elements, eg. heading elements, legalese, etc.
    >> The size you have now is too small.
    >> 2. Validate your markup, you have some errors.
    >> 3. Bump the navigation colors up, especially on hover. The contrast

    is
    >> not enough and may be difficult for some people to see.

    >
    > Where are you seeing this guy's website?
    >


    It's in the signature, and got removed when I replied
    [http://haus.scienceontheweb.net/], I found it difficult to find the URL
    as well.

    --
    Adrienne Boswell at Home
    Arbpen Web Site Design Services
    http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info
    Please respond to the group so others can share
    Adrienne Boswell, Feb 18, 2008
    #5
  6. Ivana Lottaspam wrote:

    > The basic idea for the project is to attract, harvest and
    > analyze spam,


    Using the word "spam" within your email address may keep you off the
    harvesters list. I've read where they spit out address that "look fake".



    and so forth. Your "lottaspam" might qualify as well. I think your
    project is doomed.

    About your web site? Can't read it; no contrast, font too small, etc.

    --
    -bts
    -Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Feb 18, 2008
    #6
  7. Ivana Lottaspam

    dorayme Guest

    In article <Xns9A47B5B16642arbpenyahoocom@69.28.186.121>,
    Adrienne Boswell <> wrote:

    > Gazing into my crystal ball I observed dorayme
    > <> writing in news:doraymeRidThis-
    > :
    >
    > > In article <Xns9A47AC3398C7arbpenyahoocom@69.28.186.121>,
    > > Adrienne Boswell <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Gazing into my crystal ball I observed Ivana Lottaspam
    > >> <> writing in
    > >> news:Xns9A47EA4DCC656ikkehierbe@69.16.176.253:
    > >>
    > >> 1. Stop using pixels for font sizes. Set the body font size at 100%,
    > >> and adjust for various elements, eg. heading elements, legalese, etc.
    > >> The size you have now is too small.
    > >> 2. Validate your markup, you have some errors.
    > >> 3. Bump the navigation colors up, especially on hover. The contrast

    > is
    > >> not enough and may be difficult for some people to see.

    > >
    > > Where are you seeing this guy's website?
    > >

    >
    > It's in the signature, and got removed when I replied
    > [http://haus.scienceontheweb.net/], I found it difficult to find the URL
    > as well.


    Got it now. I agree with what you say.

    It is disconcerting to hover and have the same background as the
    "current" when you hover over a contiguous link. Contrast very
    poor in the footer. In fact, I was admiring the nice clean look,
    why not have *no different background* to the footer. It needs no
    particular eye-catching attention mechanism. It is a footer and
    at the bottom, people with foot fetishes always look there.


    (PS. Please give me some time. Had a cat scan on my right foot on
    Fri, will try to find time to get it online for you all).

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Feb 18, 2008
    #7
  8. Ivana Lottaspam

    rf Guest

    "Ivana Lottaspam" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9A47EA4DCC656ikkehierbe@69.16.176.253...
    > Hi everybody,
    >
    > Recently, I've finished a small website for a project by our group of
    > developers. The basic idea for the project is to attract, harvest and
    > analyze spam, but that's not why I'm here (well partly it is, hence the
    > email address). Anyway...


    > http://haus.scienceontheweb.net/


    <quote>
    After waiting for a whole week for our first spam message to arrive, we give
    up. Either alt.test is not actively harvested, or it just wasn't harvested
    this particular week.
    </quote>

    You are aware that messages to the test groups expire very quickly, about 10
    minutes or so. A harverster would have to be on the job continuously to
    notice your post.

    Not a valid test.

    --
    Richard.
    rf, Feb 18, 2008
    #8
  9. On Feb 18, 1:24 pm, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"
    <> wrote:
    > Ivana Lottaspam wrote:
    > > The basic idea for the project is to attract, harvest and
    > > analyze spam,

    >
    > Using the word "spam" within your email address may keep you off the
    > harvesters list. I've read where they spit out address that "look fake".
    >
    >
    >
    > and so forth. Your "lottaspam" might qualify as well. I think your
    > project is doomed.
    >
    > About your web site? Can't read it; no contrast, font too small, etc.
    >
    > --
    > -bts
    > -Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck


    I agree with bts. Certainly spambots that would be clever enough
    identify a valid useful email address would also be clever enough to
    identify an invalid address, and one such invalid address would
    contain the word 'spam'.

    Perhaps change it to something more non-key-word or person-oriented
    such as 'ralpmalph@' instead of 'lottaspam@'.

    I certainly don't think your project is doomed though (as long as you
    change your email). Although, then again, those big vendors of the
    anti spam software would have at least some kind of head start with
    similar thought processes.

    I hope that you get some good data and make good use of it.... for all
    our benefit.
    Disco Octopus, Feb 18, 2008
    #9
  10. rf wrote:

    >
    > "Ivana Lottaspam" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns9A47EA4DCC656ikkehierbe@69.16.176.253...
    >> Hi everybody,
    >>
    >> Recently, I've finished a small website for a project by our group of
    >> developers. The basic idea for the project is to attract, harvest and
    >> analyze spam, but that's not why I'm here (well partly it is, hence the
    >> email address). Anyway...

    >
    >> http://haus.scienceontheweb.net/

    >
    > <quote>
    > After waiting for a whole week for our first spam message to arrive, we give
    > up. Either alt.test is not actively harvested, or it just wasn't harvested
    > this particular week.
    > </quote>
    >
    > You are aware that messages to the test groups expire very quickly, about 10
    > minutes or so. A harverster would have to be on the job continuously to
    > notice your post.


    Depends on the server. Right now posts available in alt.test (and not
    crossposted to any non-test groups) at news.individual.net, my primary
    feed, go back at least two months.

    <q one example>

    Newsgroups: alt.test
    Subject: Testing only 12/15/07:18:00:02
    Date: 15 Dec 2007 10:00:03 GMT

    </q>

    Here's one only to .test groups that's from June of last year:

    <q>

    Newsgroups: biz.test,alt.test,ch.test
    Subject: michael lalonde cyberstalker
    Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 19:45:11 -0700

    </q>

    I'm not saying it's a good place to harvest. But your "about 10 minutes
    or so" claim isn't broadly applicable.


    --
    Blinky
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
    Blinky: http://blinkynet.net
    Blinky the Shark, Feb 18, 2008
    #10
  11. Ivana Lottaspam

    rf Guest

    "Blinky the Shark" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > rf wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> "Ivana Lottaspam" <> wrote in message
    >> news:Xns9A47EA4DCC656ikkehierbe@69.16.176.253...
    >>> Hi everybody,
    >>>
    >>> Recently, I've finished a small website for a project by our group of
    >>> developers. The basic idea for the project is to attract, harvest and
    >>> analyze spam, but that's not why I'm here (well partly it is, hence the
    >>> email address). Anyway...

    >>
    >>> http://haus.scienceontheweb.net/

    >>
    >> <quote>
    >> After waiting for a whole week for our first spam message to arrive, we
    >> give
    >> up. Either alt.test is not actively harvested, or it just wasn't
    >> harvested
    >> this particular week.
    >> </quote>
    >>
    >> You are aware that messages to the test groups expire very quickly, about
    >> 10
    >> minutes or so. A harverster would have to be on the job continuously to
    >> notice your post.

    >
    > Depends on the server. Right now posts available in alt.test (and not
    > crossposted to any non-test groups) at news.individual.net, my primary
    > feed, go back at least two months.


    Really?

    I am only going on *my* server (bigpond). One has to be quick to actually
    see the test.

    > I'm not saying it's a good place to harvest. But your "about 10 minutes
    > or so" claim isn't broadly applicable.


    I stand Corrected.

    --
    Richard.
    rf, Feb 18, 2008
    #11
  12. rf wrote:

    >
    > "Blinky the Shark" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    >> rf wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>> "Ivana Lottaspam" <> wrote in message
    >>> news:Xns9A47EA4DCC656ikkehierbe@69.16.176.253...
    >>>> Hi everybody,
    >>>>
    >>>> Recently, I've finished a small website for a project by our group of
    >>>> developers. The basic idea for the project is to attract, harvest and
    >>>> analyze spam, but that's not why I'm here (well partly it is, hence the
    >>>> email address). Anyway...
    >>>
    >>>> http://haus.scienceontheweb.net/
    >>>
    >>> <quote>
    >>> After waiting for a whole week for our first spam message to arrive, we
    >>> give
    >>> up. Either alt.test is not actively harvested, or it just wasn't
    >>> harvested
    >>> this particular week.
    >>> </quote>
    >>>
    >>> You are aware that messages to the test groups expire very quickly, about
    >>> 10
    >>> minutes or so. A harverster would have to be on the job continuously to
    >>> notice your post.

    >>
    >> Depends on the server. Right now posts available in alt.test (and not
    >> crossposted to any non-test groups) at news.individual.net, my primary
    >> feed, go back at least two months.

    >
    > Really?


    I showed you examples, now snipped. :)

    > I am only going on *my* server (bigpond). One has to be quick to actually
    > see the test.


    Bummer. I'm used to, when I go into alt.test to do something and sort by
    poster to see my stuff, having weeks or months of my old tests still
    there.

    I have several news servers (and several news clients) set up.

    I checked Earthlink, too.

    <q>

    Newsgroups: alt.test
    Subject: Testing only 01/14/08:12:00:02
    Date: 14 Jan 2008 04:00:02 GMT

    </q>

    They're keeping about a month's worth in alt.test.

    Last one. NOTE: I've done these last two checks as much for my own
    curiosity as anything else; I'm not trying to drive this down yer throat.
    <G>. news.datemas.de:

    <q>

    Newsgroups: alt.test
    Subject: echolot ping - ignore
    Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:40:02 +0100 (CET)

    </q>

    About a month, as well.

    >> I'm not saying it's a good place to harvest. But your "about 10
    >> minutes or so" claim isn't broadly applicable.

    >
    > I stand Corrected.


    I exist but to serve. And swim. And eat. Eat to live; live to eat. :)

    Regards.

    --
    Blinky
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
    Blinky: http://blinkynet.net
    Blinky the Shark, Feb 18, 2008
    #12
  13. rf wrote:

    > "Blinky the Shark" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    >> rf wrote:


    >>> You are aware that messages to the test groups expire very quickly,
    >>> about 10
    >>> minutes or so. A harverster would have to be on the job continuously
    >>> to notice your post.

    >>
    >> Depends on the server. Right now posts available in alt.test (and not
    >> crossposted to any non-test groups) at news.individual.net, my primary
    >> feed, go back at least two months.

    >
    > Really?
    >
    > I am only going on *my* server (bigpond). One has to be quick to
    > actually see the test.


    Another serer issue issue is lag.

    I used to use a server (a pay server, no less) that took about 20 minutes
    before one's posts were available. That's a GIANT pain in the ass when
    you're trying to run tests. Takes what feels like all flippin' night just
    to do several tests when you're doing configuration testing. Ow! :)


    --
    Blinky
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
    Blinky: http://blinkynet.net
    Blinky the Shark, Feb 18, 2008
    #13
  14. Ivana Lottaspam

    dorayme Guest

    In article <9i9uj.16372$>,
    "rf" <> wrote:

    > I am only going on *my* server (bigpond). One has to be quick to actually
    > see the test.


    Ages back, your newserver (on bigpond) was slow. There seems no
    happy medium with Telstra! <g>

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Feb 18, 2008
    #14
  15. Blinky the Shark wrote:

    > rf wrote:
    >> ...
    >> You are aware that messages to the test groups expire very quickly,
    >> about 10 minutes or so. A harverster would have to be on the job
    >> continuously to notice your post.

    >
    > Depends on the server. Right now posts available in alt.test (and
    > not crossposted to any non-test groups) at news.individual.net, my
    > primary feed, go back at least two months.


    Is there a possibility that the spambots ignore test groups? How many
    n00bs post their real addresses there? (Just a thought... n00bs seem to
    post their test messages everywhere else, though.)

    --
    -bts
    -Friends don't let friends drive Vista
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Feb 18, 2008
    #15
  16. Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:

    > Blinky the Shark wrote:
    >
    >> rf wrote:
    >>> ...
    >>> You are aware that messages to the test groups expire very quickly,
    >>> about 10 minutes or so. A harverster would have to be on the job
    >>> continuously to notice your post.

    >>
    >> Depends on the server. Right now posts available in alt.test (and
    >> not crossposted to any non-test groups) at news.individual.net, my
    >> primary feed, go back at least two months.

    >
    > Is there a possibility that the spambots ignore test groups? How many
    > n00bs post their real addresses there? (Just a thought... n00bs seem to
    > post their test messages everywhere else, though.)


    Note that - since snipped - I said that I wasn't addressing whether or not
    test groups were harvested. Only that retention wasn't necessarily as
    short as claimed.

    As for the question, that can go both ways. Test groups probably wouldn't
    be very fertile for harvesting because not only, as you say, would they
    tend to contain fewer real addresses, since the unclued aren't posting
    there and because the even the ones who might be posting with real
    addresses probably aren't as spam naive as the huddled masses in other
    groups. On the other hand, it doesn't cost spammers any more to scrape
    test groups as well as nontest groups, so infertility probably wouldn't
    much matter to them.


    --
    Blinky
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
    Blinky: http://blinkynet.net
    Blinky the Shark, Feb 18, 2008
    #16
  17. dorayme <> wrote in
    news::

    <snipped>

    First of all, thanks for all the suggestions. I've tried to make the best
    of them, and have just placed the changes online.

    Sorry for not placing the URL somewhere in the post itself - I just assumed
    that everyone would be able to see it in the signature. Didn't think about
    replies etcetera ;)

    For those who are interested in seeing the new version: it can be found at
    http://haus.scienceontheweb.net/ .

    Here's an overview of the changes:

    1. Stop using pixels for font sizes

    I've changed all fixed sizes to "em", if that's what you meant. The site
    looks more or less the same, but I'm not sure whether the way I implemented
    it is right. It seems that each item within an item inherits the font size
    from it's parent, and adjusts based on that size. Is there another way? A
    way to set a size, always based on 100%?

    2. Validation

    Not yet done, but I'll make it up in the weekend.

    3. Bump up the navigation colours

    The navigation colours were changed (I made the font a lot darker, so it
    should be easier to read on the light background).

    4. Website contrast

    Not only the navigation, but also the links were changed - overall, I think
    the contrast is a bit better.

    5. Footer

    IMHO, the footer was indeed a bit of a problem. After the suggestion to
    drop the different background, I decided to make the footer the opposite of
    the header. Same background as the website, but with a border on top,
    instead of under as in the header.

    Thanks for the comment about the "nice clean look" - that's exactly what we
    went for. Another poster called the design a bit bland, well, it's actually
    meant to be that way. Not boring, but we didn't want to go over the top
    with colours and animations and stuff...

    Best regards,

    Ivana Lottaspam (virtual project spokesthingy)
    --
    http://haus.scienceontheweb.net/
    harvesting and understanding spam
    Ivana Lottaspam, Feb 19, 2008
    #17
  18. BessieBee <> wrote in
    news::

    >>I'd appreciate it very much if anyone who's interested would take a
    >>look at my website, and post their comments and/or suggestions to
    >>improve the site.

    >
    >>Ivana ()

    >
    > I left your email intact, hope it helps! :)


    Thanks - no luck so far, though...

    > Rather bland looking site and font is way too small.


    I've already replied to Dorayme about the layout and design issues, so I
    won't repeat them here, however...

    > Am I the only one on this planet that finds "Ads by Google" highly
    > annoying?


    .... I would like to reply to this comment. I've noticed that there is a bit
    of a growing public who are not so fond of Google Ads, but in my experience
    they still are the least intrusive form of ads so far. For those who do not
    like to see the ads, there certainly are enough ways to remove them from
    sight. Therefor we have opted to go with them for providing us with
    advertisements.

    I hope you understand, and if not, I would like to know why you find them
    so annoying.

    Best regards,

    Ivana Lottaspam (virtual project spokesthingy)
    --
    http://haus.scienceontheweb.net/
    harvesting and understanding spam
    Ivana Lottaspam, Feb 19, 2008
    #18
  19. Blinky the Shark <> wrote in
    news:p:

    <snipped>

    Besides the help I already received with the design/layout of the website,
    I would also like to thank everyone for their information and input in our
    project.

    Today, I've added a new article to the project's homepage in which I have
    addressed each concern - feel free to read it at
    http://haus.scienceontheweb.net/2008/02/are-we-on-the-right-track.php .

    Again, thanks for all the input!

    Best regards,

    Ivana Lottaspam (virtual project spokesthingy)
    --
    http://haus.scienceontheweb.net/
    harvesting and understanding spam
    Ivana Lottaspam, Feb 19, 2008
    #19
  20. Ivana Lottaspam wrote:

    > Blinky the Shark <> wrote in
    > news:p:
    >
    > <snipped>


    Why attribute if you're not going to quote anything?


    --
    Blinky
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
    Blinky: http://blinkynet.net
    Blinky the Shark, Feb 19, 2008
    #20
    1. Advertising

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