Timezones and versions of Java

[Nigel Wade]

[moronic utterings deleted]

Why do you bother continuing to feed this troll?

 

[Stanimir Stamenkov]

Wed, 25 May 2011 19:49:18 +1200, /Lawrence D'Oliveiro/:

So the answer is “noâ€: you need to download, install and run a separate tool
to apply a patch to fix it up.

How many people are going to bother with this?

People who care or need it, people maintaining servers. Those who
don't need it will get the latest data with the next JRE update.

 

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Funny. At times I've had to do EXACTLYY THE SAME THING to update TZ data
in the operating system.

Compare the difference: this
<http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.time.tz/3702> versus this
<http://download.oracle.com/otn-pub/java/tzupdater/1.3.38/tzupdater-1_3_38-2011e.zip>

The first one is a diff. What does it do? Why, just look at the diff itself,
and you can see what it does. No hidden surprises there; it’s not even code,
it’s just data, i.e. timezone rules. How to apply it? Just use patch(1), a
standard utility available on all self-respecting open-source-based systems.

What’s the second one? It’s a .jar file with a readme. What does it do?
Don’t know for sure, actually. The readme says one thing, but without source
code to refer to, how can you be sure?

How do you roll out that Oracle patch? You have to double-click it or
something on every single system where you want to install it. Do you have
to reboot or something afterwards? To be safe, probably yes.

How do you roll out the tzdata patch? That’s easy: you can run a bulk SSH
loop across all your systems.

 

[Lew]

Compare the difference: this
<http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.time.tz/3702> versus this
<http://download.oracle.com/otn-pub/java/tzupdater/1.3.38/tzupdater-1_3_38-2011e.zip>

The first one is a diff. What does it do? Why, just look at the diff itself,
and you can see what it does. No hidden surprises there; it’s not even code,
it’s just data, i.e. timezone rules. How to apply it? Just use patch(1), a
standard utility available on all self-respecting open-source-based systems.

What’s the second one? It’s a .jar file with a readme. What does it do?
Don’t know for sure, actually. The readme says one thing, but without source
code to refer to, how can you be sure?

How do you roll out that Oracle patch? You have to double-click it or
something on every single system where you want to install it. Do you have
to reboot or something afterwards? To be safe, probably yes.

How do you roll out the tzdata patch? That’s easy: you can run a bulk SSH
loop across all your systems.

"No true Scotsman", Lawrence.

 

[Lawrence D'Oliveiro]

Wed, 25 May 2011 19:49:18 +1200, /Lawrence D'Oliveiro/:


People who care or need it, people maintaining servers.

Production servers? Are you really going to roll out a code patch willy-
nilly across all your production systems?

The problem is, why does Java need a CODE patch to apply a DATA update? The
tzdata patch I referenced is just a data patch, no changes to any code at
all. That’s why folks like Debian feel safe classifying such updates as
“volatileâ€, being immediately applicable even to production systems running
“stable†installations.

 

[Lew]

Production servers? Are you really going to roll out a code patch willy-
nilly across all your production systems?

Where'd you get "willy-nilly"? No one said that. You don't get to add that
straw man and then treat it like Stanimir said it, Lawrence! Shame on you,
Lawrence!

The problem is, why does Java need a CODE patch to apply a DATA update? The
tzdata patch I referenced is just a data patch, no changes to any code at
all. That’s why folks like Debian feel safe classifying such updates as
“volatileâ€, being immediately applicable even to production systems running
“stable†installations.

Still pulling your "No True Scotsman" bullshit, Lawrence.

First you said no one but Java needs a patch. Then it was shown that, for
example, Linux needs a patch. Then you started making up stuff about the Java
patch. And who says the Java patch is a code patch? Obviously it patches
something in the bootstrap JAR world, but is it code? Have you checked?

It's been shown time and again that your argument here is full of shit, so you
keep changing the terms of your argument. That's classic "No True Scotsman"
baloney, there, Lawrence, old boy.

So how about you stop that crap? I've seen you make valid, well-reasoned
points before, so how about you make a habit of it, hm, Lawrence, old bean?

That's a good boy.