tinyURL address for how long?

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme

Whether things conform or not is a totally different question to
whether the standard is a good one.

But something that conforms perfectly to an imperfect standard must
logically also be imperfect.

So to determine whether it is perfect, we must compare it to a perfect
standard, but then we must compare the standard to another perfect
standard in order to establish that the standard itself is perfect, and
so on ad nauseum.

This doesn't mean that the perfect is impossible of course, just that we
can't prove it scientifically.

 

[dorayme]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme
<[email protected]> declared in alt.html:

Yes, but not everyone will have the same ideal.

If a boxing judge marks down a contender because he does not look
like Marilyn Monroe, we don't just say... "Oh well, each to their
own standards... fair enough... tra la la la la... everything is
relative you see... tra la la la lal ... everyone has their own
ideals and standards and points of comparison... "

No, the crowd (quite rightly) sets upon this guy out and tears
him into pieces.

 

[dorayme]

half the American people thought that Bush was
the best thing since sliced white bread and were dead wrong.

It was slightly less than half of the approximately half of the American
people who actually bothered to vote - not exactly a unanimous decision.
[/QUOTE]

Well, I don't think anyone claimed it was. As for how the votes
fall being a reflection of what the whole population thinks, that
is an interesting matter. But you know how I can't go into this
here as it does not have much to do with html/css...

 

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme

If a boxing judge marks down a contender because he does not look
like Marilyn Monroe, we don't just say... "Oh well, each to their
own standards... fair enough... tra la la la la... everything is
relative you see... tra la la la lal ... everyone has their own
ideals and standards and points of comparison... "

Exactly - which is why relativism is such a ridiculous idea. That's why
I said that ultimately there must be a perfect ideal.

Another way of looking at it is that there must be absolute truth, since
the existence (or not) of absolute truth is itself an absolute.

 

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme

But you know how I can't go into this
here as it does not have much to do with html/css...

You should join us in alt.www.webmaster - you'd fit right in...

 

[dorayme]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme


But something that conforms perfectly to an imperfect standard must
logically also be imperfect.

This is either a confusion or a non sequitur. You need to look
hard at what you mean by an "imperfect standard". This can mean a
variety of different things.

I think it is clear now that you don't understand the
significance and simple power of your first intuition. Being
perfect is a bit (I did not say exactly) like "going very fast"
or "being very big", one needs to know what the standard is. The
idea of being big absolutely is a nonsense.

So to determine whether it is perfect, we must compare it to a perfect
standard,
No.

This doesn't mean that the perfect is impossible of course, just that we
can't prove it scientifically.

It is no use at all saying whether something can be proven or not
proven (nothing is ever reall proven scientifically btw) until
you establish what it is you are trying to prove.

 

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme

This is either a confusion or a non sequitur. You need to look
hard at what you mean by an "imperfect standard". This can mean a
variety of different things.

Something being a "standard" doesn't necessarily make it good or right,
as you previously noted. A perfect standard is one that has no flaws. An
imperfect standard is one that has at least one flaw, no matter how
minor.

Being
perfect is a bit (I did not say exactly) like "going very fast"
or "being very big", one needs to know what the standard is. The
idea of being big absolutely is a nonsense.

Unless its size is infinite.

 

[dorayme]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme


Exactly - which is why relativism is such a ridiculous idea. That's why
I said that ultimately there must be a perfect ideal.

If that is why you said this, you are either confused or it is
unclear what you mean. No offence intended, mate. It simply does
not follow that for us to be able to use the language of things
measuring up to standards that there has to be some perfect
standard somewhere. You cannot quite give up this "Newtonian"
idea, can you? They used to think this of space comparisons and
standards. Even great men like Newton. But it is incoherent at
its heart.

 

[dorayme]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme


You should join us in alt.www.webmaster - you'd fit right in...

Perhaps I should take a look? But I go nowhere if you, Korpela,
Little, Flavell, Els, old Travis, the horrible Blinkey (we are
not talking at the moment but he will mellow), and many others do
not go. You can't get rid of me that easily. Once I like a group,
no matter how bad I get treated, I stick loyally to it. It's the
Martian culture you see...

 

[dorayme]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme


Something being a "standard" doesn't necessarily make it good or right,
as you previously noted. A perfect standard is one that has no flaws. An
imperfect standard is one that has at least one flaw, no matter how
minor.

A "perfect standard" is a term you are using that has no clear
meaning. Be careful not to put too much weight on it.

There would be a few types of things that would make a standard
imperfect (but probably not at all what you have in mind. What
you have in mind, from the evidence so far, is perhaps something
confused or obscure if I may say without offence?)

A standard can be imperfect in the way a tool can be, it does not
do the job intended for it. It can be confused internally, not
make proper sense, it can be obscure and so and so on. Think HTML
and CSS. But if it is quite clear, not vague at all, not
internally contradictory and does do the job intended for it,
then "perfection" is not usually to the point. A standard for one
purpose might be no good for another purpose. It can, contrary to
what you said, indeed have "no flaws" but this only means it is
clear, can be applied and does the job intended.

 

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme

Perhaps I should take a look? But I go nowhere if you, Korpela,
Little, Flavell, Els, old Travis, the horrible Blinkey (we are
not talking at the moment but he will mellow), and many others do
not go. You can't get rid of me that easily. Once I like a group,
no matter how bad I get treated, I stick loyally to it. It's the
Martian culture you see...

Els spends more time in AWW than here. Blinky is certainly there too. I
don't think the others are there, or certainly not regularly. But there
are also a whole host of new acquaintances just waiting to meet you.

 

[dorayme]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme


Els spends more time in AWW than here. Blinky is certainly there too. I
don't think the others are there, or certainly not regularly. But there
are also a whole host of new acquaintances just waiting to meet you.

I will take a look!

 

[Els]

Only cause it's more fun over there...

I will take a look!

78 minutes have passed since you said that, and still no sign of you in
AWW

 

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Els

78 minutes have passed since you said that, and still no sign of you in
AWW

And she sounded so excited too. :-(

 

[Els]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, Els


And she sounded so excited too. :-(

Maybe she meant it literally: "take a look". Not writing anything :\

 

[dorayme]

Only cause it's more fun over there...


78 minutes have passed since you said that, and still no sign of you in
AWW

I know it seems I have nothing else to do but it is not quite
true. So I must be a bit careful. if I were to look at this other
group there would for sure be things to amuse, engage and enrage
me.

Ah... but that cautious thought is only on the one hand. On the
other hand, present job contract allows a generous 3 months, I
suggested it to allow for distractions and time to get aesthetic
things to gel. And, as Koestler explains in The Sleepwalkers,
one can still think under the surface about one thing while doing
another. I would be more confident about relying on this
mechanism if I could be more sure that I am unconsciously working
on my work rather than say on yet another unrealted matter like
planning a holiday...

 

[Mark Parnell]

Deciding to do something for the good of humanity, dorayme

I know it seems I have nothing else to do but it is not quite
true.

You mean you have a life outside Usenet? HERESY! <g>