To outsource or not to outsource - that is the question.....

Discussion in 'Java' started by Graham, May 10, 2004.

  1. Graham

    Graham Guest

    Hi,

    I'm a software manager of a small firm in Cambridgeshire in the UK.
    The commercial wolves within the company are closing in with their
    limited chequebooks and saying they want a medium sized product
    offering out by
    first quarter 2005.

    This leaves me with a headache.

    I would like to retain development expertise in house for reasons of
    maintenance. However, we are not experienced in Java, and we want to
    re-write
    our Oracle forms application suite on this platform.

    Does anybody have any insights, practical experience of the pros of
    cons
    of outsourcing Vs bringing in an external consultant and trying to
    build
    a team. If so, what kind of time constraints were they were working
    under
    and costs etc..

    In addition, does anybody have any practical experience of converting
    a
    relational database structure to fit the Java Object Orientated model.

    TIA

    Graham Lucas
     
    Graham, May 10, 2004
    #1
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  2. Graham

    John Guest

    Graham wrote:

    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm a software manager of a small firm in Cambridgeshire in the UK.
    > The commercial wolves within the company are closing in with their
    > limited chequebooks and saying they want a medium sized product
    > offering out by
    > first quarter 2005.
    >
    > This leaves me with a headache.
    >
    > I would like to retain development expertise in house for reasons of
    > maintenance. However, we are not experienced in Java, and we want to
    > re-write
    > our Oracle forms application suite on this platform.


    I would take on someone who has experience with RDBs and Java straight
    away, then let him appraise the options (and take on extra contractors
    as necessary).

    >
    > Does anybody have any insights, practical experience of the pros of
    > cons
    > of outsourcing Vs bringing in an external consultant and trying to
    > build
    > a team. If so, what kind of time constraints were they were working
    > under
    > and costs etc..


    I don't have experience from the "customer" side of that unfortunately.

    >
    > In addition, does anybody have any practical experience of converting
    > a
    > relational database structure to fit the Java Object Orientated model.


    Yes, use Entity EJBs and J2EE. You can approach this in a more hacky
    fashion if you need quick results and less of a shift in your
    application's model by using more procedural techniques and SQL.
     
    John, May 10, 2004
    #2
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  3. Graham

    Andy Fish Guest

    "Graham" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm a software manager of a small firm in Cambridgeshire in the UK.
    > The commercial wolves within the company are closing in with their
    > limited chequebooks and saying they want a medium sized product
    > offering out by
    > first quarter 2005.
    >
    > This leaves me with a headache.
    >
    > I would like to retain development expertise in house for reasons of
    > maintenance. However, we are not experienced in Java, and we want to
    > re-write
    > our Oracle forms application suite on this platform.
    >
    > Does anybody have any insights, practical experience of the pros of
    > cons
    > of outsourcing Vs bringing in an external consultant and trying to
    > build
    > a team. If so, what kind of time constraints were they were working
    > under
    > and costs etc..


    I don't have practical experience of this scenario but my gut instincts tell
    me you should steer of outsourcing in the short term. Unless you have
    someone "on the inside" who knows how to achieve the migration to java, any
    attempt to outsource the port is bound to go off the rails.

    I would say get in a consultant who understands java enough to architect the
    migration. Then you and he can decide whether to outsource, retrain, or
    whatever.

    >
    > In addition, does anybody have any practical experience of converting
    > a
    > relational database structure to fit the Java Object Orientated model.
    >
    > TIA
    >
    > Graham Lucas
     
    Andy Fish, May 10, 2004
    #3
  4. Graham

    iksrazal Guest

    (Graham) wrote in message news:<>...
    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm a software manager of a small firm in Cambridgeshire in the UK.
    > The commercial wolves within the company are closing in with their
    > limited chequebooks and saying they want a medium sized product
    > offering out by
    > first quarter 2005.
    >


    > This leaves me with a headache.
    >
    > I would like to retain development expertise in house for reasons of
    > maintenance. However, we are not experienced in Java, and we want to
    > re-write
    > our Oracle forms application suite on this platform.
    >
    > Does anybody have any insights, practical experience of the pros of
    > cons
    > of outsourcing Vs bringing in an external consultant and trying to
    > build
    > a team. If so, what kind of time constraints were they were working
    > under
    > and costs etc..
    >


    For a shameless plug you could get some frank advice on the subject
    from my site at http://www.braziloutsource.com/ - a small mom-n-pop
    software consultancy specializing in international development.
    Outsourcing is not a panacea, and just like any project there are
    successes and failures. People often overlook not only the language
    barriers but cultural differences and time zone differences as well. I
    like this article because it lists the minuses as well as the plusses.
    http://www.cio.com/archive/090103/money.html . In short, I'd say
    contract for skill first and then see if they fit your budget. I think
    where people sometimes go wrong is looking at the money issues first.
    Programming is often not rocket science and there are plenty of
    skilled people out there - regardless of location.

    > In addition, does anybody have any practical experience of converting
    > a
    > relational database structure to fit the Java Object Orientated model.
    >


    In my case only limited exposure to hibernate and a few conversations
    with developers who after doing JDO and such remain unconvinced. I'd
    be interested in hearing a few success stories to get some balance.

    iksrazal
     
    iksrazal, May 10, 2004
    #4
  5. Graham

    steve Guest

    On Mon, 10 May 2004 20:11:09 +0800, Graham wrote
    (in article <>):

    > Hi,
    >
    > I'm a software manager of a small firm in Cambridgeshire in the UK.
    > The commercial wolves within the company are closing in with their
    > limited chequebooks and saying they want a medium sized product
    > offering out by
    > first quarter 2005.
    >
    > This leaves me with a headache.
    >
    > I would like to retain development expertise in house for reasons of
    > maintenance. However, we are not experienced in Java, and we want to
    > re-write
    > our Oracle forms application suite on this platform.
    >
    > Does anybody have any insights, practical experience of the pros of
    > cons
    > of outsourcing Vs bringing in an external consultant and trying to
    > build
    > a team. If so, what kind of time constraints were they were working
    > under
    > and costs etc..
    >
    > In addition, does anybody have any practical experience of converting
    > a
    > relational database structure to fit the Java Object Orientated model.
    >
    > TIA
    >
    > Graham Lucas


    I do a fair amount of java client to oracle 9i programming.
    Try pulling Jdeveloper 10g from the oracle web site.

    Allocate a week to see if it fits your needs, & if you can re-tool your in
    house programmers. if not outsource.

    You will see from jdeveloper that you can develop with models, in some
    cases it is simple drag & drop then link the modules together, in the
    graphical interface.

    steve
     
    steve, May 13, 2004
    #5
  6. Graham

    shay Guest

    If your developers come from an Oracle Forms background and you want
    to get them up to speed with Java, then Oracle JDeveloper should be
    your choice.
    Especially look at the BC4J framework (now called ADF Business
    Components in 10g) it offers - it has some things that will remind you
    of the Forms blocks. And it takes care of the Object/Relational
    mapping for you - so you won't need to change your DB.
    Get it from - http://otn.oracle.com/products/jdev/index.html

    There are even some companies that will convert your exisitng Forms to
    JDeveloper and BC4J.
    Check out http://otn.oracle.com/products/forms/htdocs/10g/FormsJavaSOD.html
     
    shay, May 14, 2004
    #6
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