Trying to choose between python and java

Discussion in 'Python' started by Anthony Irwin, May 15, 2007.

  1. Hi All,

    I am currently trying to decide between using python or java and have
    a few quick questions about python that you may be able to help with.

    #1 Does python have something like javas .jar packages. A jar file
    contains all the program files and you can execute the program with
    java -jar program.jar

    I am sort of hoping python has something like this because I feel it
    makes it easier to distribute between platforms e.g. linux, mac
    windows etc.

    #2 What database do people recommend for using with python that is
    easy to distribute across linux, mac, windows.

    #3 Is there any equivalent to jfreechart and jfreereport
    (http://www.jfree.org for details) in python.

    #4 If I write a program a test it with python-wxgtk2.6 under linux are
    the program windows likely to look right under windows and mac?

    #5 someone said that they used to use python but stopped because the
    language changed or made stuff depreciated (I can fully remember
    which) and old code stopped working. Is code written today likely to
    still work in 5+ years or do they depreciate stuff and you have to update?

    Anyway hopefully someone can help me out with these last few questions
    I have.

    Also does anyone else have any useful comments about python vs java
    without starting a flame war.


    --
    Kind Regards,
    Anthony Irwin

    http://www.irwinresources.com
    http://www.makehomebusiness.com
    email: anthony at above domains, - www.
    Anthony Irwin, May 15, 2007
    #1
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  2. In <f2bghg$4q0$>, Anthony Irwin wrote:

    > #1 Does python have something like javas .jar packages. A jar file
    > contains all the program files and you can execute the program with
    > java -jar program.jar


    There are .egg files but usually distributing a program consisting of
    several files isn't a big problem. There is a mechanism to write a
    `setup.py` that copies the files into the correct locations. Look for
    `distutils` in the library docs.

    > #2 What database do people recommend for using with python that is
    > easy to distribute across linux, mac, windows.


    From Python 2.5 the standard library contains SQLite support. There are
    third party libraries to many DBMSs like MySQL, PostgreSQL, Oracle etc.

    The situation with MySQL bindings under Windows was a bit troublesome
    recently. The author of the bindings doesn't use Windows and does not
    provide pre-built binaries.

    > #4 If I write a program a test it with python-wxgtk2.6 under linux are
    > the program windows likely to look right under windows and mac?


    Likely yes, but you better check. Same applies to Java GUIs.

    > #5 someone said that they used to use python but stopped because the
    > language changed or made stuff depreciated (I can fully remember
    > which) and old code stopped working. Is code written today likely to
    > still work in 5+ years or do they depreciate stuff and you have to update?


    That sounds odd because the language and standard library is very
    backwards compatible. There are some things deprecated with a comment in
    the docs and in some cases runtime warnings, but the code still works.

    With Python 3.0 some things will break, because there's some cruft in the
    language and library that accumulated over time, just because backwards
    compatibility was such a high priority. The 2.x series will be supported
    for some time parallel to 3.x, so there is enough time to migrate.

    Ciao,
    Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch
    Marc 'BlackJack' Rintsch, May 15, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Anthony Irwin

    Terry Reedy Guest

    "Anthony Irwin" <> wrote in message
    news:f2bghg$4q0$...
    | #2 What database do people recommend for using with python that is
    | easy to distribute across linux, mac, windows.

    Check out the sqlite3 module. (But I have not used it yet).

    | #5 someone said that they used to use python but stopped because the
    | language changed or made stuff depreciated (I can fully remember
    | which) and old code stopped working. Is code written today likely to
    | still work in 5+ years or do they depreciate stuff and you have to
    update?

    Most versions of Python are still available. You are free to use and
    distribute your copies indefinitely. Several older versions are still in
    use.

    Recent releases have added features but removed very little except bugs.
    Unfortunately, bug removal sometimes breaks code. And feature additions
    occasionally introduce bugs or otherwise break code, but that is why there
    are alpha, beta, and candidate releases before a final release.

    Python3 will remove many things at once. A conversion tool is being
    written. And there is no expectation that production code should be
    immediately converted, if ever.

    Terry Jan Reedy
    Terry Reedy, May 15, 2007
    #3
  4. Anthony Irwin

    Steven Howe Guest

    Anthony Irwin wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I am currently trying to decide between using python or java and have
    > a few quick questions about python that you may be able to help with.
    >
    > #1 Does python have something like javas .jar packages. A jar file
    > contains all the program files and you can execute the program with
    > java -jar program.jar
    >
    > I am sort of hoping python has something like this because I feel it
    > makes it easier to distribute between platforms e.g. linux, mac
    > windows etc.
    >
    > #2 What database do people recommend for using with python that is
    > easy to distribute across linux, mac, windows.
    >
    > #3 Is there any equivalent to jfreechart and jfreereport
    > (http://www.jfree.org for details) in python.
    >
    > #4 If I write a program a test it with python-wxgtk2.6 under linux are
    > the program windows likely to look right under windows and mac?
    >
    > #5 someone said that they used to use python but stopped because the
    > language changed or made stuff depreciated (I can fully remember
    > which) and old code stopped working. Is code written today likely to
    > still work in 5+ years or do they depreciate stuff and you have to update?
    >
    > Anyway hopefully someone can help me out with these last few questions
    > I have.
    >
    > Also does anyone else have any useful comments about python vs java
    > without starting a flame war.
    >
    >
    >

    Flame war? Here amongst all the reasonable adults programmers? It never
    happens.

    1) I always thought jar files were weird. Change the run mode on you
    python script and just run it, over and over.
    chmod u+x program.py
    ../program.py
    No doubt you are (shudder) a Windows user (and beat yourself in the
    closet at night as well). No doubt Windows has a feature to set the
    privilege on a file to make it executable. With any luck, I'll never know.

    2) Python interfaces with with damn near every database I've ever seen,
    regardless if the database is on the same system or remote. At worst
    case, it seems to have ODBC connection (yes I know, C and connect are
    the same thing, like an American saying Mount Fujiyama, which is of
    course, Mount Fuji Mount) feature. Not as precise as a targeted
    connector, but it works. There are even multiple ways to 'see' the
    database. As strings, lists, objects, rows, tables and dictionaries.
    It's all quite a powerful tool. Image, getting to choose how you 'see'
    the database. Who'd have thunk!

    3) No idea about jfree. Perhaps a few keyword searchs on Google or
    Sourceforge would give you an answer.

    6) Never programmed wx. But it seems to be very stable on the programs
    I've downloaded. Anyway mapping one GUI to another is always an
    imprecise effort (especially when you have 235 patents on the product
    that you dare not tell anyone about). No two mindset ever really meet,
    especially when money is involved.

    5) All languages grow. Get over it. But, if you keep the older
    interpreter around, you can still run your old scripts. At NCR I had to
    support 6 different version of Perl because the programmers wouldn't
    fix/update their code. Seem they had better things to do and you can
    always expect the Sysadmin to save your bacon.
    But if you haven't got to that point (six version to support) yet,
    during pre-upgrade tests, you might run the program and note the
    features that are going to be decrepit. Generally you have a few minor
    version releases (year or more) before the decrepit feature is dropped.
    Then you can decide if upgrading/fix or running multiple version of
    python is the right path for you. Using the PYTHONPATH environment
    variable is a good way to redirect your older scripts to use decrepit
    feature via an older interpreter.

    The (6) you didn't ask. As a Sysadmin, I hate Java. It's a resource hog.
    Little tasks take hundreds of megabytes of RAM. What can one expect.
    It's a virtual machine inside your computer. Hog it must be! Python is a
    bit slimmer on the memory footprint and I think a hell of a lot easier
    to debug. Even strace can be used on python programs. Never got strace
    to work on Java scripts.

    The (7) you didn't ask. Last month there was a full flame war about
    java/python on the python-list. It petered out after about 15 days. You
    might review the archives to get a sense for yourself (so we don't have
    repeat the war, just for you).

    sph


    --
    HEX: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    Steven Howe, May 15, 2007
    #4
  5. Anthony Irwin

    Paul Melis Guest

    Anthony Irwin wrote:
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I am currently trying to decide between using python or java and have a
    > few quick questions about python that you may be able to help with.
    >
    > #1 Does python have something like javas .jar packages. A jar file
    > contains all the program files and you can execute the program with java
    > -jar program.jar
    >
    > I am sort of hoping python has something like this because I feel it
    > makes it easier to distribute between platforms e.g. linux, mac windows
    > etc.


    It depends on what you see as the benefit of jar's. If it is purely a
    matter of packing your whole application up into a single file that you
    can distribute then there are a number of tools to do that, each with
    their limits. Search for cx_freeze or py2exe (win32 only).

    > #2 What database do people recommend for using with python that is easy
    > to distribute across linux, mac, windows.


    You could use sqlite, which comes included with Python 2.5. The database
    files it creates are cross-platform usable and using sqlite saves you
    the trouble of having to set up a database server

    > #4 If I write a program a test it with python-wxgtk2.6 under linux are
    > the program windows likely to look right under windows and mac?


    Likely yes, but guaranteed no. You'll simply have to test to see how
    your program comes out on the other platforms. You could use a GUI
    toolkit that draws its own widgets instead of one that uses the native
    controls, like wxPython does. PyGTK comes to mind, not sure if it is
    available on the Mac.

    > #5 someone said that they used to use python but stopped because the
    > language changed or made stuff depreciated (I can fully remember which)
    > and old code stopped working. Is code written today likely to still work
    > in 5+ years or do they depreciate stuff and you have to update?


    The changes I can remember from the last couple of years seem to be
    mostly addition of new features to the language and more standard
    modules being included in the standard Python distribution. Of course,
    some things were deprecated, but I think actual code-breaking changes
    were not that common. But with Python 3.0 (still a long time to go)
    there will definitely be some incompatibilities, but a lot can probably
    be fixed automatically using an included conversion tool.

    Here's a description of the changes in the last 3 releases (2.5, 2.4,
    2.3). These span a bit more than 3 years, as 2.3.0 was released on July
    29th, 2003, with 2.5.0 on September 19th, 2006. Perhaps you can get a
    feel for the kind of changes from one release to the next.

    http://docs.python.org/whatsnew/whatsnew25.html
    http://www.python.org/doc/2.4/whatsnew/whatsnew24.html
    http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/whatsnew/

    > Also does anyone else have any useful comments about python vs java
    > without starting a flame war.


    I guess it all depends on what you're going to use it for and what your
    goals and restrictions are. I've never seriously used Java (only a bit
    of C#), but I've been developing a GUI app with wxPython for the last
    couple of months and am pretty happy with it. Before that, I did lots of
    tooling with Python (conversion scripts, small computational stuff, etc)
    and was happy as well. So overall, I'm happy with Python :)

    It's pretty powerful for a wide variety of applications, comes with a
    large collection of modules for everything from networking to file
    compression to encryption to xml parsing to database handling to ...
    (see http://docs.python.org/lib/lib.html). I find code in Python to be
    more easily readable because of the absence of unneeded brackets and the
    fact that code that forms a block is always aligned properly (eeek,
    possible flame-war subject here). And it saves on the number of type
    strokes as well. Overall, great stuff!

    Paul
    Paul Melis, May 15, 2007
    #5
  6. Anthony Irwin

    Ant Guest

    On May 15, 6:30 am, Anthony Irwin <> wrote:
    > #1 Does python have something like javas .jar packages. A jar file
    > contains all the program files and you can execute the program with
    > java -jar program.jar


    As someone else has said, Python has eggs: http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/PythonEggs

    > #3 Is there any equivalent to jfreechart and jfreereport
    > (http://www.jfree.orgfor details) in python.


    I can't remember what it is I use - I haven't got access to my server
    at the moment... But look in the cheese shop - I'm fairly sure it was
    from there. I'll post details if I remember. Alternatively this looks
    good (though I haven't tried it and it's only free for non-commercial
    use): http://www.dislin.de

    > #5 someone said that they used to use python but stopped because the
    > language changed or made stuff depreciated (I can fully remember
    > which) and old code stopped working. Is code written today likely to
    > still work in 5+ years or do they depreciate stuff and you have to update?


    Any language will have some compatibility problems when upgrading to a
    different version, and so you have the option of updating your program
    or using an old version of the language. I'm a professional Java
    developer, and though Java 6 has been out for some time now, every
    company I've worked for in the last couple of years still uses Java
    1.4 due to problems with the upgrade.

    Python does strive however to stay backward compatible (3k not
    withstanding), and I've upgraded from 2.3 to 2.4 and now 2.5 with no
    problems.

    > Also does anyone else have any useful comments about python vs java
    > without starting a flame war.


    As I said, I'm a professional Java developer, and much prefer
    programming in Python when I can (and am even getting quite a lot of
    Python work at the moment via Jython :) )

    --
    Ant...

    http://antroy.blogspot.com/
    Ant, May 15, 2007
    #6
  7. Anthony Irwin

    Guest

    , May 15, 2007
    #7
  8. Anthony Irwin a écrit :
    > Hi All,
    >
    > I am currently trying to decide between using python or java and have a
    > few quick questions about python that you may be able to help with.
    >
    > #1 Does python have something like javas .jar packages. A jar file
    > contains all the program files and you can execute the program with java
    > -jar program.jar


    Python eggs

    > I am sort of hoping python has something like this because I feel it
    > makes it easier to distribute between platforms e.g. linux, mac windows
    > etc.


    Note that while highly portable (and ported), Python is not as autistic
    as Java and doesn't try to pretend the underlying platform doesn't
    exists...

    > #2 What database do people recommend for using with python that is easy
    > to distribute across linux, mac, windows.


    If you're thinking of embedded databases, the answer is SQLite. Else,
    PostgreSQL and MySQL both run on Windows and mowt unices.

    > #3 Is there any equivalent to jfreechart and jfreereport
    > (http://www.jfree.org for details) in python.
    >
    > #4 If I write a program a test it with python-wxgtk2.6 under linux are
    > the program windows likely to look right under windows and mac?
    >
    > #5 someone said that they used to use python but stopped because the
    > language changed or made stuff depreciated


    s/depreciated/deprecated/

    > (I can fully remember which)
    > and old code stopped working.


    This is very strange, and even looks like FUD. Python has gone very far
    into maintaining compatibility, and there's a lot of pretty old code
    still running on latest Python versions.

    > Is code written today likely to still work
    > in 5+ years or do they depreciate stuff and you have to update?


    I still use code written more than five years ago.

    > Anyway hopefully someone can help me out with these last few questions I
    > have.
    >
    > Also does anyone else have any useful comments about python vs java
    > without starting a flame war.


    Err... reading the last words, I think I'd better shut my mouth now.
    Bruno Desthuilliers, May 15, 2007
    #8
  9. Steven Howe a écrit :
    (snip)
    >>

    > Flame war? Here amongst all the reasonable adults programmers? It never
    > happens.
    >

    Lol ! +1 QOTW
    Bruno Desthuilliers, May 15, 2007
    #9
  10. En Tue, 15 May 2007 05:43:36 -0300, Bruno Desthuilliers
    <> escribió:

    >> Is code written today likely to still work
    >> in 5+ years or do they depreciate stuff and you have to update?

    >
    > I still use code written more than five years ago.


    Just as an example, PIL (Python Imaging Library) works unchanged with any
    version from Python 1.5 (released 1999) till the latest 2.5 (released this
    year)

    --
    Gabriel Genellina
    Gabriel Genellina, May 15, 2007
    #10
  11. Anthony Irwin <> wrote:
    > #4 If I write a program a test it with python-wxgtk2.6 under linux are
    > the program windows likely to look right under windows and mac?


    wx adopts the native look and feel for the platform. I've used it
    under linux and windows where it looks fine! I've never used it under
    mac.

    > #5 someone said that they used to use python but stopped because the
    > language changed or made stuff depreciated (I can fully remember
    > which) and old code stopped working. Is code written today likely to
    > still work in 5+ years or do they depreciate stuff and you have to
    > update?


    The language does change gently. New language features are added.
    Backwards compatibility is deemed very important. Read PEP 5
    "Guidelines for Language Evolution" for more info.

    http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0005/

    Libraries are deprecated but not removed. Read PEP 4 "Deprecation of
    Standard Modules" if you want to know more.

    http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0004/

    There is more churn in the libraries which aren't distributed with
    python.

    There is also the Python 3000 project. The point of this project is
    to remove the deprecated stuff and the accumulated cruft and make
    python shiny and new again. A lot of python programs will run
    unmodified under Python 3000 anyway. However there is a translator to
    translate to the new Python 3000 format. Python 3000 is probably a
    year from its first stable release. I suspect it won't be in wide use
    for several years after that.

    http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-3000/

    Don't be scared of Python 3000 though it is just a gentle revision of
    the language, nothing like, lets say, going from perl 5 to perl 6.

    > Also does anyone else have any useful comments about python vs java
    > without starting a flame war.


    You'll be a lot more productive writing python code in my experience
    so if development time is important to you, then go with python.

    --
    Nick Craig-Wood <> -- http://www.craig-wood.com/nick
    Nick Craig-Wood, May 15, 2007
    #11
  12. Anthony Irwin

    Paul Boddie Guest

    On 15 May, 07:30, Anthony Irwin <> wrote:
    >
    > I am currently trying to decide between using python or java and have
    > a few quick questions about python that you may be able to help with.
    >
    > #1 Does python have something like javas .jar packages. A jar file
    > contains all the program files and you can execute the program with
    > java -jar program.jar


    Some people will propose Python .egg files, but I believe plain .zip
    files containing packages may be enough for your purposes, provided
    that there are no native code libraries inside.

    > I am sort of hoping python has something like this because I feel it
    > makes it easier to distribute between platforms e.g. linux, mac
    > windows etc.


    See also...

    http://wiki.python.org/moin/DistributionUtilities

    > #2 What database do people recommend for using with python that is
    > easy to distribute across linux, mac, windows.


    See the following pages for guidance:

    http://wiki.python.org/moin/DatabaseProgramming
    http://wiki.python.org/moin/ChoosingDatabase

    You will probably be most interested in sqlite, particularly as
    support for that database system is now part of Python's standard
    library (from Python 2.5 onwards), although the libraries are also
    available separately.

    [...]

    > #5 someone said that they used to use python but stopped because the
    > language changed or made stuff depreciated (I can fully remember
    > which) and old code stopped working. Is code written today likely to
    > still work in 5+ years or do they depreciate stuff and you have to update?


    It's "deprecated", not "depreciated", by the way!

    I tend to complain about changes in the language a lot, mostly because
    I think that they can be confusing and off-putting for beginners, make
    documentation and literature outdated, and distract from more
    important areas of improvement, but I don't think that previous
    language changes have necessarily caused me many problems. My own
    active projects are at most around four years old, but as these
    projects have developed, I think that language changes have been the
    least of my problems. ;-)

    People could use such things as an excuse to bash Python, but the
    favourite languages of some of those people may well be undergoing
    fundamental changes with substantial potential breakage and no
    reasonable escape from the upgrade treadmill. Meanwhile, it's
    completely possible to stick with a particular version of Python and
    to write code against that without being forced to upgrade because of
    stability issues. Indeed, Python has reached a level of maturity
    (unlike certain competitors) where a conservative approach to version
    adoption is completely viable: I'm using Python 2.3.x in my work, and
    aside from a few conveniences that I miss from using Python 2.4.x
    elsewhere, it's still very much a going concern.

    Python 3.x will be somewhat different from Python 2.x, but people are
    working on tools to help developers target both branches of the
    language simultaneously, and it wouldn't surprise me if the 2.x series
    continued in such a way that the differences between the branches get
    smaller over time as developers gradually adopt the ways of the
    refined 3.x language and libraries - this has been happening with Zope
    2.x and Zope 3.x, in fact. Personally, I plan to stick with Python 2.x
    for some time to come unless something really compelling shows up in
    Python 3.x, and I even intend to hang on to Python 2.4.x for as long
    as I reasonably can. There's no point in upgrading systems purely for
    the sake of upgrading.

    Paul
    Paul Boddie, May 15, 2007
    #12
  13. Anthony Irwin <> writes:

    > #1 Does python have something like javas .jar packages. A jar file
    > contains all the program files and you can execute the program with
    > java -jar program.jar


    Python does this with eggs and distutils that copy your files into the
    proper location. For os x you also have py2applet which creates an
    application bundle that can be put onto a disk image and dragged into
    the Applications folder. A similar utility exists for MSWin, but I've
    not used it.

    > #2 What database do people recommend for using with python that is
    > easy to distribute across linux, mac, windows.


    pysqlite3 for python is included in python 2.5 and can be added to
    python 2.4. For java you would probably use HyperSonic or Derby. At
    least one winner in the java camp for me is db4o, which is a bit like
    shelve on steroids with an object-oriented query language.

    > #4 If I write a program a test it with python-wxgtk2.6 under linux are
    > the program windows likely to look right under windows and mac?


    There are enough idiom differences between OS X, MSWin, Gnome and Qt
    that native look and feel is very, very difficult to achieve. Java
    comes close with SWT. WxPython applications seem to port badly to OS
    X, and are tricky to build into an application bundle.

    As a example of how these differences in idioms can become problems,
    Mozilla Thunderbird on OS X regularly has issue with unmodified
    keybindings. With Thunderbird 2.0 shift-J marks a message as junk,
    even when you are entering text into a dialog box. The tkinter
    application Leo uses the control key as a modifier on OS X rather than
    the command key. The basic point is that you need to test on all
    platforms you want to develop for.

    My very biased view of the domain is as follows:
    OS X/Cocoa: PyObjC
    KDE + Win + OS X/X11: PyQt
    Win + Gnome + OS X/Carbon: wxPython or Jython+SWT
    Simple, easy, and universal: tkinter
    Rich, complex, and universal: Jython+Swing

    > Also does anyone else have any useful comments about python vs java
    > without starting a flame war.


    I've found it useful to use a mix of pure java and jython, although
    I'm still working through some gotchas in regards to compiling jython
    code that's acessible from java.

    > --
    > Kind Regards,
    > Anthony Irwin
    >
    > http://www.irwinresources.com
    > http://www.makehomebusiness.com
    > email: anthony at above domains, - www.


    --
    Kirk Job Sluder
    Kirk Job Sluder, May 15, 2007
    #13
  14. Anthony Irwin

    sturlamolden Guest

    On May 15, 7:30 am, Anthony Irwin <> wrote:

    > #1 Does python have something like javas .jar packages.


    Yes. .egg files.


    > #2 What database do people recommend for using with python that is
    > easy to distribute across linux, mac, windows.


    Depends on your needs:

    1. Berkely DB - not relational, zero administration, very fast
    (bundled with Python).
    2. SQLite - zero administration, quite fast (bundled with Python).
    3. MySQL - relational database server, fast, GPL
    4. Oracle - relational database server, sluggish, commercial

    > #3 Is there any equivalent to jfreechart and jfreereport
    > (http://www.jfree.orgfor details) in python.


    Yes.

    reportlab
    matplotlib


    > #4 If I write a program a test it with python-wxgtk2.6 under linux are
    > the program windows likely to look right under windows and mac?


    Yes.

    But you should test anyway.


    > #5 someone said that they used to use python but stopped because the
    > language changed or made stuff depreciated


    Python is no worse than Java with respect to that.
    sturlamolden, May 15, 2007
    #14
  15. Anthony Irwin

    Beliavsky Guest

    On May 15, 1:30 am, Anthony Irwin <> wrote:

    <snip>

    > #5 someone said that they used to use python but stopped because the
    > language changed or made stuff depreciated (I can fully remember
    > which) and old code stopped working. Is code written today likely to
    > still work in 5+ years or do they depreciate stuff and you have to update?


    Because Python 3 will change the syntax of print to disallow

    print "Hello, world."

    a substantial fraction of Python programs in existence, including all
    of my programs, will be broken. Draw your own conclusions.
    Beliavsky, May 15, 2007
    #15
  16. Anthony Irwin

    Matimus Guest

    Matimus, May 15, 2007
    #16
  17. Anthony Irwin

    sturlamolden Guest

    On May 15, 7:29 pm, Beliavsky <> wrote:

    > print "Hello, world."
    >
    > a substantial fraction of Python programs in existence, including all
    > of my programs, will be broken. Draw your own conclusions.


    In the vent that your Python 2.x install will be fubar and suddenly
    stop working the day Python 3k is released: how difficult will it be
    it to make a Python 3k script that corrects your code?
    sturlamolden, May 15, 2007
    #17
  18. Anthony Irwin

    Robert Kern Guest

    sturlamolden wrote:
    > On May 15, 7:29 pm, Beliavsky <> wrote:
    >
    >> print "Hello, world."
    >>
    >> a substantial fraction of Python programs in existence, including all
    >> of my programs, will be broken. Draw your own conclusions.

    >
    > In the vent that your Python 2.x install will be fubar and suddenly
    > stop working the day Python 3k is released: how difficult will it be
    > it to make a Python 3k script that corrects your code?


    It's worth mentioning that providing such a script is of high priority for the
    Python 3.0 team. They've already implemented the translation for print
    statements, too:

    http://svn.python.org/view/sandbox/trunk/2to3/
    http://svn.python.org/view/sandbox/trunk/2to3/fixes/fix_print.py?rev=54501&view=auto

    --
    Robert Kern

    "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
    that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
    an underlying truth."
    -- Umberto Eco
    Robert Kern, May 15, 2007
    #18
  19. Anthony Irwin

    Ant Guest

    On May 15, 9:17 am, Ant <> wrote:
    ....
    > I can't remember what it is I use - I haven't got access to my server
    > at the moment... But look in the cheese shop - I'm fairly sure it was
    > from there. I'll post details if I remember. Alternatively this looks
    > good (though I haven't tried it and it's only free for non-commercial
    > use):http://www.dislin.de


    It's pychart that I use fr charting. Nice and simple to use - though I
    only use it for simple charts, so I'm not sure how powerful it is.


    --
    Ant...

    http://antroy.blogspot.com/
    Ant, May 15, 2007
    #19
  20. Anthony Irwin

    Aahz Guest

    In article <f2bghg$4q0$>,
    Anthony Irwin <> wrote:
    >
    >#5 someone said that they used to use python but stopped because the
    >language changed or made stuff depreciated (I can fully remember
    >which) and old code stopped working. Is code written today likely to
    >still work in 5+ years or do they depreciate stuff and you have to update?


    You're probably thinking of
    http://www.gbch.net/gjb/blog/software/discuss/python-sucks.html

    Thing is, while he has a point, I don't think it's a very good one. For
    example, just yesterday in upgrading from Java 1.4.2 to Java 5.0, I had
    to fix a bunch of instances of "package foo.bar.baz;" to "package baz;"
    because apparently the latter is now "correct". Bugfixes happen, and
    sometimes they break working code.
    --
    Aahz () <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

    "Look, it's your affair if you want to play with five people, but don't
    go calling it doubles." --John Cleese anticipates Usenet
    Aahz, May 15, 2007
    #20
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