Trying to get the hang of uploading a website

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Doc, Oct 2, 2004.

  1. Doc

    Doc Guest

    I've put together a very basic practice website. Just a single picture and a
    few words. I'm trying to nail down an understanding of certain aspects of
    putting the site on the internet. While I do have a domain name, in this
    case, I'm using the free webspace my ISP provides. In this case I'm not
    using a program, I'm writing the site content manually.

    I made a folder called "Test Website". Inside that I put the actual html
    text document and am calling it index.html . Also inside this "Test
    Website" folder, I created another folder called "images" inside of which
    I've put the .jpg file that I've used as part of this webpage.

    First, it's my understanding that a typical way to organize site content is
    to put pics in one folder, sound files in another, etc., and the html
    document outside of these content folders. Is this the correct way to do it?
    This appears to be the way the books and sites I've looked at on web
    authoring advise to do it, yet I run into a problem when trying to upload
    the site contents when doing it this way, which I'll get to in a moment.

    I open the file transfer program I have called FTP max and it asks for some
    info. One of them is "remote folder". Is it correct that this is the
    location to load the site content? Something that's not clear to me, is
    there more than one remote folder? FTP Max appears to give the option to
    create more than one.

    The default remote appears to be /www. If you want to create multiple
    individual sites, would you use different remote folders?

    When I attempt to upload the source files from my computer, am I supposed to
    upload the entire "Test Website" folder as a whole? It won't allow me to do
    this, saying "folder contains files which cannot be uploaded." If I open the
    "Test Website" folder, it will upload the index.html text file, but it won't
    upload the "images" folder. If I open the "images" folder it will let upload
    the jpeg file. This is a point of confusion to me. Since the server doesn't
    let me upload folders, instead of organizing the site content in folders as
    I've done, am I supposed to just dump all the site contents into one folder
    and dump it all into the remote folder?

    Now, regarding the site address, according to my ISP (earthlink) the format
    is http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/ However, if I want to have
    separate, discrete websites under this, should I define the individual sites
    as, for example http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/Test_Wesite/
    http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/Test_Website2/

    etc? Or is this completely off the mark?

    Thanks for any assistance.
     
    Doc, Oct 2, 2004
    #1
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  2. Doc

    Spartanicus Guest

    "Doc" <> wrote:

    >First, it's my understanding that a typical way to organize site content is
    >to put pics in one folder, sound files in another, etc., and the html
    >document outside of these content folders. Is this the correct way to do it?


    There is no correct or incorrect way regarding folder usage. Sub folders
    are common, but their use should be governed by your preferred file
    handling. Note that it's recommended to plan ahead, currently you may
    only have a few files for which sub folders are of little use, but that
    may change in future and url's should if possible remain the same to
    prevent link rot.

    >This appears to be the way the books and sites I've looked at on web
    >authoring advise to do it, yet I run into a problem when trying to upload
    >the site contents when doing it this way, which I'll get to in a moment.
    >
    >I open the file transfer program I have called FTP max and it asks for some
    >info. One of them is "remote folder". Is it correct that this is the
    >location to load the site content? Something that's not clear to me, is
    >there more than one remote folder? FTP Max appears to give the option to
    >create more than one.


    I don't know FTP max, but typically you specify a single root to create
    your files and folders in, in your case specifying "/" (sans quotes)
    should do it.

    >The default remote appears to be /www.


    Check FTP max's website for a FAQ and/or a forum for program specific
    info.

    >If you want to create multiple
    >individual sites, would you use different remote folders?


    Multiple individual sites typically use individual domains, hence they
    would require multiple ftp profiles.

    >When I attempt to upload the source files from my computer, am I supposed to
    >upload the entire "Test Website" folder as a whole?


    FTP software typically needs a path to a local folder, your FTP software
    may use profiles to store jobs, or if it's fully manual you may need to
    browse to the correct local and remote folder, again see the help and
    website of your particular FTP software.

    >Now, regarding the site address, according to my ISP (earthlink) the format
    >is http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/ However, if I want to have
    >separate, discrete websites under this, should I define the individual sites
    >as, for example http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/Test_Wesite/
    >http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/Test_Website2/


    http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/ will bring up index.htm(l), to
    create separate sites you need to use a different index file name and
    append that like so:
    http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/othersite1.html
    http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/othersite2.html

    Note that this is the cheapskate way of doing it, a proper (sub) domain
    per site would be preferred.

    --
    Spartanicus
     
    Spartanicus, Oct 2, 2004
    #2
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  3. "Doc" <> writes:

    > I've put together a very basic practice website. Just a single picture and a
    > few words. I'm trying to nail down an understanding of certain aspects of
    > putting the site on the internet. While I do have a domain name, in this
    > case, I'm using the free webspace my ISP provides. In this case I'm not
    > using a program, I'm writing the site content manually.
    >
    > I made a folder called "Test Website". Inside that I put the actual html
    > text document and am calling it index.html . Also inside this "Test
    > Website" folder, I created another folder called "images" inside of which
    > I've put the .jpg file that I've used as part of this webpage.
    >
    > First, it's my understanding that a typical way to organize site content is
    > to put pics in one folder, sound files in another, etc., and the html
    > document outside of these content folders. Is this the correct way to do it?


    Yep. The way you've got your files set up sounds good to me.

    > This appears to be the way the books and sites I've looked at on web
    > authoring advise to do it, yet I run into a problem when trying to upload
    > the site contents when doing it this way, which I'll get to in a moment.
    >
    > I open the file transfer program I have called FTP max and it asks for some
    > info. One of them is "remote folder". Is it correct that this is the
    > location to load the site content? Something that's not clear to me, is
    > there more than one remote folder? FTP Max appears to give the option to
    > create more than one.
    >
    > The default remote appears to be /www. If you want to create multiple
    > individual sites, would you use different remote folders?


    The /www is your remote folder. If you open a web browser and go to the web
    address supplied by your ISP, you will see the contents of the
    /www folder. With free web hosting supplied by ISPs there usually only
    one remote folder you can upload to because you're only give one web
    address.

    Therefore, to create more sites, you just add more folders to
    you www/ folder.

    http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/ = www/index.html
    http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/site2/ = www/site2/index.html
    http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/site3/ = www/site3/index.html


    >
    > When I attempt to upload the source files from my computer, am I supposed to
    > upload the entire "Test Website" folder as a whole?


    Well if you upload the *contents* of "Test Website" to the www/ folder on the
    remote host. Then your site will be at:

    http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/

    If you uploaded the "Test Website" folder *and* its contents, your site
    will be at:

    http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/Test Website/

    (Note the weird '%20' in the web address, this is becuase the folder has
    a space in it. Try to name your web folders with all lowercase letters
    and no spaces)


    > It won't allow me to do
    > this, saying "folder contains files which cannot be uploaded." If I open the
    > "Test Website" folder, it will upload the index.html text file, but it won't
    > upload the "images" folder. If I open the "images" folder it will let upload
    > the jpeg file. This is a point of confusion to me. Since the server doesn't
    > let me upload folders, instead of organizing the site content in folders as
    > I've done, am I supposed to just dump all the site contents into one folder
    > and dump it all into the remote folder?


    Your FTP program should enable you to make folders on your remote
    filespace (look for something like 'Make Direcory' or 'Create
    Folder'). Just create folders on the remote space that exactly match
    the folders you have set up on your computer. Then copy the files into
    them.

    HTH
    Matt
     
    Matt N. Jones, Oct 2, 2004
    #3
  4. Doc

    Guest

    On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 10:06:53 GMT, "Doc" <> wrote:

    >The default remote appears to be /www. If you want to create multiple
    >individual sites, would you use different remote folders?


    Yes - the new folders would be beneath that remote folder.

    >When I attempt to upload the source files from my computer, am I supposed to
    >upload the entire "Test Website" folder as a whole? It won't allow me to do
    >this, saying "folder contains files which cannot be uploaded." If I open the
    >"Test Website" folder, it will upload the index.html text file, but it won't
    >upload the "images" folder. If I open the "images" folder it will let upload
    >the jpeg file. This is a point of confusion to me. Since the server doesn't
    >let me upload folders, instead of organizing the site content in folders as
    >I've done, am I supposed to just dump all the site contents into one folder
    >and dump it all into the remote folder?


    I would suggest you just upload the index.html file first. From looking at the
    site here:

    http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/

    it is evident that you have been successful in the past in uploading several
    files. You now need a file index.html to prevent the current directory listing
    from being shown.

    >Now, regarding the site address, according to my ISP (earthlink) the format
    >is http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/ However, if I want to have
    >separate, discrete websites under this, should I define the individual sites
    >as, for example http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/Test_Wesite/
    >http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/Test_Website2/


    That's correct. So, for example:

    index.html will hold your main site

    bruddah/index.html will hold pages about your brother
    rover/index.html will hold pages about the Rover malfunction

    etc, etc...

    Hope this helps.

    regards
    Marcus
     
    , Oct 2, 2004
    #4
  5. Doc

    Doc Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...


    > I would suggest you just upload the index.html file first. From looking at

    the
    > site here:
    >
    > http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/
    >
    > it is evident that you have been successful in the past in uploading

    several
    > files.


    Yes, but these were done using a program that did it automatically and I
    still had problems with making the sites work right. I'm trying to learn to
    do it manually and actually understand what the heck is going on. Actually,
    I thought I had deleted these files, not sure why they're still there. Will
    have to investigate that.

    I appreciate the input.
     
    Doc, Oct 2, 2004
    #5
  6. Doc

    Doc Guest

    "Matt N. Jones" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > "Doc" <> writes:
    > The /www is your remote folder. If you open a web browser and go to the

    web
    > address supplied by your ISP, you will see the contents of the
    > /www folder. With free web hosting supplied by ISPs there usually only
    > one remote folder you can upload to because you're only give one web
    > address.
    >
    > Therefore, to create more sites, you just add more folders to
    > you www/ folder.
    >
    > http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/ = www/index.html
    > http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/site2/ = www/site2/index.html
    > http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/site3/ = www/site3/index.html


    Excellent info, much appreciated.
     
    Doc, Oct 2, 2004
    #6
  7. Doc

    Guest

    On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:45:04 GMT, "Doc" <> wrote:

    >I'm trying to learn to
    >do it manually and actually understand what the heck is going on.


    I would suggest using ws_ftp LE. This shows the local files and remote files
    and allows you to transfer easily using a simple interface.

    You can download from here:

    ftp://ftp.ipswitch.com/Ipswitch/Product_Downloads/WS_FTPLE.exe

    Hope this helps.

    regards
    Marcus
     
    , Oct 3, 2004
    #7
  8. Doc

    Frogleg Guest

    On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 10:06:53 GMT, "Doc"
    <> wrote:

    >I made a folder called "Test Website".


    Bad idea. Both the embedded space and mixed case name may get you into
    trouble with some systems. A better name would be "test" or
    "test_website". However, you don't need to wrap your test page/site
    into a folder at all. Use default properties, name your page
    "index.html" (or "index.htm"), and you can see it by using the URL
    http://home.earthlink.net/~docwhatever

    rather than

    http://home.earthlink.net/!docwhatever/test/something.html

    The name "index.html" (or "default.html" in some cases) is the default
    for the home page of an address.

    > Inside that I put the actual html
    >text document and am calling it index.html . Also inside this "Test
    >Website" folder, I created another folder called "images" inside of which
    >I've put the .jpg file that I've used as part of this webpage.


    (Earthlink has already set up an 'images' and a 'data' folder in your
    webspace. If you use their FTP option [under the 'tools' menu], you
    will see them.)
    >
    >First, it's my understanding that a typical way to organize site content is
    >to put pics in one folder, sound files in another, etc., and the html
    >document outside of these content folders. Is this the correct way to do it?


    It is optional. If you have 2 .html files and 3-4 images, it's
    perfectly OK to have them all in the same directory and refer to them
    directly. If you have dozens of images that need to be sorted into
    categories, it may be easier to have them in an 'images' folder or
    possibly 'images/spring', 'images/summer', etc. series.

    >I open the file transfer program I have called FTP max


    Again, you might want to try Earthlink's little FTP tool. It's simple
    and straightforward.

    >and it asks for some
    >info. One of them is "remote folder". Is it correct that this is the
    >location to load the site content? Something that's not clear to me, is
    >there more than one remote folder? FTP Max appears to give the option to
    >create more than one.
    >
    >The default remote appears to be /www. If you want to create multiple
    >individual sites, would you use different remote folders?


    You could. If you create a 'cats' folder, and store an 'index.html'
    there, you would access that page by

    http://home.earthlink.net/~docwhatever/cats/

    If you have 'cats.html' in the www directory, the address would be

    http://home.earthlink.net/~docwhatever./cats.html

    If the address does not include a specific html file, the browser will
    look for and open 'index.html'.
    >
    >When I attempt to upload the source files from my computer, am I supposed to
    >upload the entire "Test Website" folder as a whole? It won't allow me to do
    >this, saying "folder contains files which cannot be uploaded." If I open the
    >"Test Website" folder, it will upload the index.html text file, but it won't
    >upload the "images" folder. If I open the "images" folder it will let upload
    >the jpeg file. This is a point of confusion to me. Since the server doesn't
    >let me upload folders, instead of organizing the site content in folders as
    >I've done, am I supposed to just dump all the site contents into one folder
    >and dump it all into the remote folder?


    Folders (directories) on your home computer may contain logfiles or
    database indexes the remote system doesn't want to accept. Once you
    have the folders (directories) set up on the remote system, it's
    pretty easy to select, say, all the image files in your local 'images'
    folder/directory and send them to the remote 'images'
    folder/directory. The remote site's facility for creating new
    directories/folders may or may not be a part of it's file transfer
    setup.
    >
    >Now, regarding the site address, according to my ISP (earthlink) the format
    >is http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/ However, if I want to have
    >separate, discrete websites under this, should I define the individual sites
    >as, for example http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/Test_Wesite/
    >http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/Test_Website2/


    Yes.
     
    Frogleg, Oct 3, 2004
    #8
  9. Doc

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Toby Inkster, Oct 3, 2004
    #9
  10. Doc

    Neal Guest

    On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 10:53:53 +0200, <> wrote:

    >
    > On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:45:04 GMT, "Doc" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> I'm trying to learn to
    >> do it manually and actually understand what the heck is going on.

    >
    > I would suggest using ws_ftp LE. This shows the local files and remote
    > files
    > and allows you to transfer easily using a simple interface.
    >
    > You can download from here:
    >
    > ftp://ftp.ipswitch.com/Ipswitch/Product_Downloads/WS_FTPLE.exe


    Note that this is a direct download, and the Ipswitch site does not link
    to it from their page any longer. But it is a powerful piece of free- or
    shareware, forget which...
     
    Neal, Oct 3, 2004
    #10
  11. Doc

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Neal wrote:

    > Note that this is a direct download, and the Ipswitch site does not link
    > to it from their page any longer. But it is a powerful piece of free- or
    > shareware, forget which...


    It's freeware but only for educational, personal and IIRC non-commercial
    use. If you want to use it in a commercial environment, you should upgrade
    to the paid version.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Oct 3, 2004
    #11
  12. Doc

    Doc Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > On Sat, 02 Oct 2004 20:45:04 GMT, "Doc" <>

    wrote:
    >
    > >I'm trying to learn to
    > >do it manually and actually understand what the heck is going on.

    >
    > I would suggest using ws_ftp LE. This shows the local files and remote

    files
    > and allows you to transfer easily using a simple interface.
    >
    > You can download from here:
    >
    > ftp://ftp.ipswitch.com/Ipswitch/Product_Downloads/WS_FTPLE.exe


    I'll give it a shot, but since posting this I've discovered that there's a
    direct ftp page that I can log onto that makes it a moot point. I can just
    drag and paste the whole thing, folders and all, right onto the ftp page.
    Works great.
     
    Doc, Oct 3, 2004
    #12
  13. Doc

    Adrienne Guest

    Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "Doc"
    <> writing in
    news:15v7d.1362$:

    > I've put together a very basic practice website. Just a single picture
    > and a few words. I'm trying to nail down an understanding of certain
    > aspects of putting the site on the internet. While I do have a domain
    > name, in this case, I'm using the free webspace my ISP provides. In
    > this case I'm not using a program, I'm writing the site content
    > manually.
    >
    > I made a folder called "Test Website". Inside that I put the actual
    > html text document and am calling it index.html . Also inside this
    > "Test Website" folder, I created another folder called "images" inside
    > of which I've put the .jpg file that I've used as part of this
    > webpage.
    >
    > First, it's my understanding that a typical way to organize site
    > content is to put pics in one folder, sound files in another, etc., and
    > the html document outside of these content folders. Is this the correct
    > way to do it? This appears to be the way the books and sites I've
    > looked at on web authoring advise to do it, yet I run into a problem
    > when trying to upload the site contents when doing it this way, which
    > I'll get to in a moment.


    It's a matter of what you find easiest. If you are not going to have a lot
    of images, why bother to create such a folder? If you wanted to have pages
    for different people perhaps, you make separate folders, eg.
    www.example.com/dick/ or www.example.com/jane/, where all the HTML
    documents and images would be stored for Dick and Jane.

    >
    > I open the file transfer program I have called FTP max and it asks for
    > some info. One of them is "remote folder". Is it correct that this is
    > the location to load the site content? Something that's not clear to
    > me, is there more than one remote folder? FTP Max appears to give the
    > option to create more than one.


    Yes, the remote folder is the folder on the webhost's server. Your webhost
    should have given you that information.

    >
    > The default remote appears to be /www. If you want to create multiple
    > individual sites, would you use different remote folders?


    It depends on what you want to do. If you want different web sites with
    different domain names, then those have to be registered with an accredited
    registrar. If you want subdomains, like jane.example.com, you probably
    have to arrange that with your host.

    If you just want to tell people to visit http://www.example.com/jane/ then
    you would just make a subdirectory to the root directory with which your
    host provided you.

    >
    > When I attempt to upload the source files from my computer, am I
    > supposed to upload the entire "Test Website" folder as a whole? It
    > won't allow me to do this, saying "folder contains files which cannot
    > be uploaded." If I open the "Test Website" folder, it will upload the
    > index.html text file, but it won't upload the "images" folder. If I
    > open the "images" folder it will let upload the jpeg file. This is a
    > point of confusion to me. Since the server doesn't let me upload
    > folders, instead of organizing the site content in folders as I've
    > done, am I supposed to just dump all the site contents into one folder
    > and dump it all into the remote folder?


    See below.


    >
    > Now, regarding the site address, according to my ISP (earthlink) the
    > format is http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/ However, if I want to
    > have separate, discrete websites under this, should I define the
    > individual sites as, for example
    > http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/Test_Wesite/
    > http://home.mpinet.net/~docsavage20/Test_Website2/
    >
    > etc? Or is this completely off the mark?


    That is correct. Make sure that each folder has its own index.html file.

    To answer your question above, if you copy a folder to the root folder, the
    server will usually create a new folder. For example, if I dropped a
    folder called widgets into the root folder, the server would create a new
    folder called widgets, and make www.example.com/widgets/ . If there is
    some sort of file in the widgets folder that the server will not accept,
    then you would talk to your host and see what types of files are not
    allowed.

    >
    > Thanks for any assistance.
    >


    HTH

    --
    Adrienne Boswell
    Please respond to the group so others can share
     
    Adrienne, Oct 5, 2004
    #13
  14. Doc

    Frogleg Guest

    On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 14:45:08 +0100, Toby Inkster
    <> wrote:

    >Frogleg wrote:
    >
    >> you can see it by using the URL
    >> http://home.earthlink.net/~docwhatever

    >
    >You forgot the final '/'.


    Mox nix. It doesn't make any difference when you want to look at the
    page.
     
    Frogleg, Oct 14, 2004
    #14
  15. Frogleg <> wrote:

    > On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 14:45:08 +0100, Toby Inkster
    >
    > >Frogleg wrote:
    > >
    > >> you can see it by using the URL
    > >> http://home.earthlink.net/~docwhatever

    > >
    > >You forgot the final '/'.

    >
    > Mox nix. It doesn't make any difference when you want to look at the
    > page.


    Maybe not to you: it does make a difference to your web server. In fact,
    if I'm not mistaken, it results in the server first sending a 302
    response (resource temporarily moved) to the browser, and then
    internally redirecting to http://home.earthlink.net/~docwhatever/ .

    The slash at the end *does* make a difference. It's just that, in this
    particular case, you don't see it because the server is covering your
    backside. But even if you don't see, it does cause extra (needlessly so)
    traffic on the wire and load on the server.

    --
    Joel.

    http://www.cv6.org/
    "May she also say with just pride:
    I have done the State some service."
     
    Joel Shepherd, Oct 15, 2004
    #15
  16. Joel Shepherd <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > The slash at the end *does* make a difference. It's just that, in this
    > particular case, you don't see it because the server is covering your
    > backside. But even if you don't see, it does cause extra (needlessly so)
    > traffic on the wire and load on the server.


    Some discussion of directory structures, default index pages, and the
    issue of trailing slashes, is in my site:

    http://webtips.dan.info/subdir.html

    --
    Dan
     
    Daniel R. Tobias, Oct 15, 2004
    #16
  17. (Daniel R. Tobias) wrote:

    > Joel Shepherd <> wrote:
    > > The slash at the end *does* make a difference.

    >
    > Some discussion of directory structures, default index pages, and the
    > issue of trailing slashes, is in my site:
    >
    > http://webtips.dan.info/subdir.html


    Thanks for the link. I initially was going to write that the 302
    response did cause a full round-trip between server and client, but came
    across something last night that suggested (in this case) that it was
    merely a response and an internal redirect.

    But, the round-trip explanation seems more solid. For one thing (maybe
    the HTTP RFC says something about this), I doubt if most user agents
    would be prepared for multiple responses to the same request.

    --
    Joel.
     
    Joel Shepherd, Oct 15, 2004
    #17
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