Updating new e-books!!

A

Andrew Thompson

akira said:
Hello!! once again i'm updating my e-books!!

So, should we be 'bookmarking' it, or 'flagging'* it?
Check this out!!
http://freebooks2007.blogspAM.com

thank youu!! have a nice day! ^^

Oh, but for the classic quote on your glob.
"Please feel free to seeing my blog, downloading
and others in this blog. < but don't hack it > ^^"

Don't hack it? OK, but since you issue me with
commands on your glob, I will issue you with a
few commands.

- Stop spamming this usenet newsgroup.
- Stop multi-posting to usenet newsrgoups in general.
- Light yourself on fire.

* BlogspAM.spot has a small 'flag' at the top of each
page to 'report objectionable content'. Those who know
and love books are invited (by me) to go there and 'flag'
the page if they see any plagiarised works.

Oh, and you have already earned an abuse report
for spam.

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200710/1
 
X

xen

Hello!! once again i'm updating my e-books!!
Check this out!!
http://freebooks2007.blogspot.com

thank youu!! have a nice day! ^^

If you want ebooks, just check out the "java ebooks" torrent on your
favorite torrent search engine. It contains over 250 books, most of
them quite outdated, the average publishing year is around 2000, but
there are quite a few 2004 and some 2005 and 2006 books, so Java 1.5
is covered. All the books you would read if your local library had
them available, but would never see otherwise.
 
B

bbound

I tried with this guy; he just acts aggrieved when you tell him he's a thief.

Might have something to do with the fact that he isn't.

He may well be a copyright infringer, mind you. But that's not the
same thing, legally or morally.
 
G

Greg R. Broderick

(e-mail address removed) wrote in

Might have something to do with the fact that he isn't.

He may well be a copyright infringer, mind you. But that's not the
same thing, legally or morally.

What do you call individuals or companies who infringe the copyright of the
software that you write by illegally copying it and allowing other
individuals to use these copies of your software?

I call them thieves and pirates.

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg R. Broderick (e-mail address removed)

A. Top posters.
Q. What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
 
R

Roedy Green

I tried with this guy; he just acts aggrieved when you tell him he's a thief.

We'll see how he does with the O'Reilly lawyers. They responded to
me, thanking me for reporting him.
 
X

xen

We'll see how he does with the O'Reilly lawyers. They responded to
me, thanking me for reporting him.

Oh boy!
They'll probably just get Blogger to close the blog, and that'll be
the end of it. I'd be amazed if they actually press charges against
this guy, one small fly out of a swarm of small flies.
 
B

bbound

What do you call individuals or companies who infringe the copyright of the
software that you write by illegally copying it and allowing other
individuals to use these copies of your software?

I call them thieves and pirates.

I don't. More significantly, the law doesn't either.
 
L

Lew

I don't. More significantly, the law doesn't either.

Sure it does.
Copyrights are generally enforced by the holder in a civil law court, but there are also criminal infringement statutes. Criminal sanctions are generally aimed at serious counterfeiting activity, but are now becoming more commonplace as copyright collectives such as the RIAA are, more and more, targeting the file sharing home Internet user.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright>
Read and learn.

All right, the law doesn't use the term "thief", but it doesn't even in
defining "theft", so that is not relevant.

Taking what belongs to someone else is theft by definition. Copyright secures
ownership of intellectual property. Violating that is theft.

Ok, your turn to blather now.
 
L

Lasse Reichstein Nielsen

Lew said:
All right, the law doesn't use the term "thief", but it doesn't even
in defining "theft", so that is not relevant.

Copyright law doesn't. Theft is defined in criminal law.
E.g., from Brittish law:
"A person shall be guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates
property belonging to another with the intention of permanently
depriving the other of it."
(taken from: <URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft_Act_1968>)
Some laws in other countries explicitly require the stolen object
to be tangible.
Taking what belongs to someone else is theft by definition.

Only it he is thereby deprived of the stolen object.
Making a copy of something can never be theft of the original.
Copyright secures ownership of intellectual property. Violating
that is theft.

Nope. "Intellectual property" isn't property. It's a granted monopoly
on certains actions. Doing actions restricted to the grantee without
license is, depending on the kind of IP, copyright violation, patent
breach, trademark violation, or perhaps something else. Each are
covered by their own law. None of them are "theft", just as "Identity
theft" isn't theft. It's fraud (although some laws might consider the
gains of fraud to be stolen as well).

Just because you can use the same word about two things, it doesn't
make them the same when it comes to law. Lawyers are far too good at
mincing words to allow that to mean anything.

Theft is undeniably wrong by most people's standards. By defining
copyright violation as theft, you preclude any reasonable argument
about the reasonableness and appropriateness of current copyright law
wrt. its intended goal. I would personally prefer a much shorter
duration of copyright, because I think the right to freely use a work
is gainfull to society, or, as stated in the U.S. constitution:
"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for
limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their
respective Writings and Discoveries."

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts. I don't think
a monopoly that is almost guaranteed to last my entire lifetime
is the best way to promote progress.

That theft is wrong is beyond discussion.
That copyright infringement is bad is something I would very much
like discussed, not just decided by the people who has most to gain
by increasing the scope and duration of the author's monopoly.
Therefore I oppose calling copyright infringement "theft".

Enough blather?

Ob.disclaimer: IANAL, TINLA.
/L
 
L

Lew

Lasse said:
Copyright law doesn't. Theft is defined in criminal law.

Copyright violation also is defined under criminal law.

Depriving someone of income from their legally-guaranteed "monopoly" (as
copyright objectors are fond of labeling intellectual property rights) is
theft in that it takes from the owner that which is rightfully theirs.

You may not think it wrong, but that is beside the point. It's illegal.
Change the law or pay the penalty for violating it.

Most people, or at least as represented by their governments, disagree with
your characterization of copyright as wrong. Heck, far from shortening the
duration, the U.S. recently pulled the mickey-mouse extension, making
copyright inhere for 99 years, surviving a Supreme Court challenge to do so.

It's property. Taking someone's use of it is still theft. You may disagree.
If you steal my copyrighted work, I will pursue prosecution of you even
though you disagree, and let the courts determine how much you stole, and how
much you will thus have to repay. You will be a person convinced that you
didn't steal while still working off the judgment.

Call it what you will, it's a crime and the copyright violator shouldn't have
stolen, the thief.
 
L

Lasse Reichstein Nielsen

Lew said:
Copyright violation also is defined under criminal law.

True in some countries. The US copyright has some infringements
that are considered criminal offenses, not merely being illegal,
in particular § 506. The DMCA added more cases.
Most copyright infringements are civil cases, though.
Depriving someone of income from their legally-guaranteed "monopoly"
(as copyright objectors are fond of labeling intellectual property
rights) is theft in that it takes from the owner that which is
rightfully theirs.

No. It's deriving them of potential income. It is *not* theft. It is
no more theft than a competing, better, product also reducing the
expected income. Only in this case, there's a law prohibiting the
action being used to do so, and that law also says how it can be
punished.

Damages can be awarded for the projected loss of income. That's quite
different from what would happen in a case of theft.
You may not think it wrong, but that is beside the point. It's
illegal. Change the law or pay the penalty for violating it.

Never claimed it wasn't illegal. It's just not *theft* any more
than inflammatory remarks are arson.
Most people, or at least as represented by their governments, disagree
with your characterization of copyright as wrong. Heck, far from
shortening the duration, the U.S. recently pulled the mickey-mouse
extension, making copyright inhere for 99 years, surviving a Supreme
Court challenge to do so.

True. Sadly.
It's property.

The monopoly *itself* can be seen as property. It has value, and can, in
some cases, be traded or inherited.
The covered "intellectual property" is not property in any legal sense
(being neither real estate nor personal property).
<URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_property>
The main reason for not being property is that it's not tangible.

If I buy a DVD, then I *own* that (physical) DVD. I am also licensed
to use the movie on it, which is otherwise governed by the copyright
of that author(s). Nobody owns the movie. I own the copy. The copyright
holder has a monopoly on some actions related to the (ideal) work.
Taking someone's use of it is still theft.

You can't take "use". You can take a physical copy (that's theft)
or you can create an unlicensed copy (that's copyright infringement),
but then nobody has lost their copy and nobody is missing anything
(except a potential income from you if you had bought it ... which
nobody can know if you would).
You may disagree. If you steal my copyrighted work, I will pursue
prosecution of you even though you disagree, and let the courts
determine how much you stole, and how much you will thus have to
repay.

I agree that you should prosecute the *copyright infringement* and
be awarded *damages*.
If you actually go to court with a charge of "theft", you'll be
laughed out of the courtroom.
You will be a person convinced that you didn't steal while
still working off the judgment.

I'd be right. Most likely I'd have lost a civil lawsuit and would
be paying off a fine and damages (and your court costs, which is
probably the largest amount).

Now, if it had been theft, which is always a crime, you wouldn't
have to prosecute me at all. You just report it to the police, and
they'll take it from there.
Call it what you will, it's a crime and the copyright violator
shouldn't have stolen, the thief.

I call it copyringht infringement. It's a crime (or at least illegal)
and the copyright infringer shouldn't have infringed, the infringer.

Copyringht infringement is not theft, any more than it is murder.
Using an emotionally loaded but incorrect word for something is,
putting it blunt, misinformation. Muddling concepts together can only
lead to misunderstanding and confusion.

People making money from copyright monopolies (e.g., the RIAA) want to
increase the confusion to the point where everybody loses the ability
to distinguish two fundamentally different concepts and equates
copyright infringment with theft, and intellectual property with
roperty, because at that point they hope to be able to change the law
to give them even further rights, and remove rights from the users of
their works (which they'll then sell back for more money). The more
they succeede, the less people understand about the law they are
governed by, and the rights it does give them.
Don't think for a second that it's a coincidence that a person like
Jack Valente says that "copying is stealing". He had enough lawyers
to know better, but he wanted you to believe it.

/L 'Keep distinct concepts distinct, please!'
 
G

Greg R. Broderick

Only it he is thereby deprived of the stolen object.
Making a copy of something can never be theft of the original.

Taking by copyright violation deprives the rightful owner of the value and
benefit of the amount that the rightful owner decides that he/she wishes to
sell the use or enjoyment of a copyrighted work.

1. The copyright owner / creator of a work has expended his/her effort and
time to create the work at question.

2. The copyright owner / creator deserves the opportunity to recoup his
estimate of the value of the created work for some time period after the work
at question has been created. It is the right of the owner / creator to set
what value he/she deems appropriate. If others also deem this value
appropriate, then they will pay it.

3. The thief who deprives the copyright owner/creator of this recompense or
value, even marginally, for his/her efforts, unlawfully deprives the
owner/creator of a work of his rightful due.

4. Since theft is defined as the taking, by force or fraud, of something of
value from its rightful owner, one must conclude that deprivation of the
copyright owner/creator of this rightful due must be considered "theft". Any
other viewpoint is clearly fellatious.

Of course, you're welcome to test this theory out. I hear that there is a
very popular recently-published book about some teenaged magician. You're
welcome to create an e-book of this work and publish it on the web and see
how its author reacts. :)

Cheers
GRB




--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg R. Broderick (e-mail address removed)

A. Top posters.
Q. What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
 
L

Lew

Greg said:
4. Since theft is defined as the taking, by force or fraud, of something of
value from its rightful owner, one must conclude that deprivation of the
copyright owner/creator of this rightful due must be considered "theft". Any
other viewpoint is clearly fellatious.

Nice pun.

OK, not "nice", but "clever".

I prefer your term to "fallacious" here.
Of course, you're welcome to test this theory out. I hear that there is a
very popular recently-published book about some teenaged magician.

Actually, he's a wizard.
You're welcome to create an e-book of this work and publish it on the web and see
how its author reacts. :)

I was just talking to the author of some material that "Omesh" on
blogspam.spam stole. The author is definitely not happy; he regards the
copyright violation as theft and he's pursuing legal avenues against the
perpetrator.

I guess which side of this moral issue one takes depends on whether one wants
to create material or plagiarize it.
 
L

Lasse Reichstein Nielsen

Greg R. Broderick said:
Taking by copyright violation deprives the rightful owner of the value and
benefit of the amount that the rightful owner decides that he/she wishes to
sell the use or enjoyment of a copyrighted work.

You don't "take" anything, so I don't understand what "taking by
copyright violation" means. I'll assume it just means "copyright
violation"

When using that argument, you'll hear the response: "I wouldn't have
bought it at that price anyway, so you haven't lost anything".
Doesn't hold, of course, since the copyright law says exactly which
damages an infringer can be made to pay (in the US Copyright law,
it's § 504).

Still notice that it's *damages* for infringement and lost profit.
Had it been theft, the stolen item should have been returned, and
the judgement would probably have included incarceration instead.
1. The copyright owner / creator of a work has expended his/her effort and
time to create the work at question.

No doubt.
2. The copyright owner / creator deserves the opportunity to recoup his
estimate of the value of the created work for some time period after the work
at question has been created. It is the right of the owner / creator to set
what value he/she deems appropriate. If others also deem this value
appropriate, then they will pay it.
Absolutely.

3. The thief who deprives the copyright owner/creator of this recompense or
value, even marginally, for his/her efforts, unlawfully deprives the
owner/creator of a work of his rightful due.

The *copyright infringer* who deprives ...!
He is no more a thief than he is a murderer, no matter how much he
murders the business plan of the copyright holder. Use the correct word,
please!
4. Since theft is defined as the taking, by force or fraud, of
something of value from its rightful owner, one must conclude that
deprivation of the copyright owner/creator of this rightful due must
be considered "theft". Any other viewpoint is clearly fellatious.

Making a copy is neither force nor fraud, so by that definition, it's
not theft either, and it doesn't deprive the owner/creator anything
except *potential* income. That's enough for awarding damages for
copyright infringment, but it does not qualify as theft.

Also, if you are right, the US Supreme Court seems to hold a
fallacious viewpoint
<URL:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowling_v._United_States>
(I guess a fellatious viewpoint is a viewpoint that *really* sucks :)

For yet another opinion on this:
Of course, you're welcome to test this theory out. I hear that there is a
very popular recently-published book about some teenaged magician. You're
welcome to create an e-book of this work and publish it on the web and see
how its author reacts. :)

Oh, I'm certain her lawyers would just claim copyright infringment,
and then demand about a gazillion dollars in damages. And they would
be entirely entitled to do so. They will not claim that it is
"theft". Why should they? Copyright law applies beyond doubt, and it
holds all the tools they need.

If it was "theft", then it would be covered by a different law, one
which is entirely a criminal law. The police would have to
investigage (they don't in civil matters) and press charges.
When was the last time you saw that in a copyright infringment case?
(Happens only in aggrevated cases, or in some DMCA violations, e.g.,
the Sklyarov case).

Copyright infringment is illegal. So is jaywalking. Neither is theft,
and neither is covered by the laws that cover theft.

/L
 
L

Lasse Reichstein Nielsen

Lew said:
I was just talking to the author of some material that "Omesh" on
blogspam.spam stole. The author is definitely not happy; he regards
the copyright violation as theft and he's pursuing legal avenues
against the perpetrator.

I hope the avenues he pursues is a charge of copyright infringment.
Well, actually I hope he goes to a lawyer from his own jurisdiction to
get proper legal advice. I'm betting that this advice will be to
claim copyright infringment. Or perhaps just send a DMCA take-down
request.
I guess which side of this moral issue one takes depends on whether
one wants to create material or plagiarize it.

I see no moral issue in requesting that the word "theft" is only used
about that which is theft, and "copyright infringment" be used about
acts that are, well, copyright infringment.

I don't mind if someone says copyright infringment is *as bad as* theft,
but just saying "copying is theft" is incorrect and confusing.

/L
 
L

Lew

Lasse said:
I don't mind if someone says copyright infringment is *as bad as* theft,
but just saying "copying is theft" is incorrect and confusing.

You say, "təˈmÉ‘Ëtəʊ", I say, "təˈmeɪtəʊ".

I will continue to call copyright infringment "theft" and to consider you
mistaken on this issue.
 
B

bbound

You say, "t m t ", I say, "t me t ".

You say a bunch of accented characters and other Unicode, as far as I
can tell, and though it looks ... like whatever-it-is in this edit
box, I don't trust GG to post it correctly where it's quoted above.
Regardless it's nonsense as near as I can tell, and it certainly isn't
English. :p
I will continue to call copyright infringment "theft" and to consider you
mistaken on this issue.

As far as the law is concerned it is you who is mistaken. Even more so
about conflating plagiarism with copyright infringement.

There is some enlightenment to be had at questioncopyright.org and
againstmonopoly.org -- the issue of plagiarism being confused with
copyright infringement just came up at both recently.
 

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