use of meta tags.

Discussion in 'HTML' started by A Leon, Apr 10, 2004.

  1. A Leon

    A Leon Guest

    Is the number of words entered in
    META name="keywords" content=""
    illimited ?
    And can I also enter words in other languages - even arabic ?

    Does entering too much words not result in a negative reaction of the search
    robot ?

    And I suppose it helps to enter these words also in free text further in the
    document ? Is the position : beginning or end of the document of interest.

    Thanks on forehand for any help
     
    A Leon, Apr 10, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. A Leon wrote:

    > Is the number of words entered in
    > META name="keywords" content=""
    > illimited ?


    The specification doesn't impose any limit.

    > And can I also enter words in other languages - even arabic ?


    Of course, just make sure you use a suitable character encoding for your
    document.

    > Does entering too much words not result in a negative reaction of the
    > search robot ?


    Search engines do not publish the rules they use for indexing, anecdotal
    evidence would suggest that those few search engines which pay any
    attention to meta keywords penalise pages using large numbers of them.


    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
     
    David Dorward, Apr 10, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. A Leon wrote:

    > Is the number of words entered in
    > META name="keywords" content=""
    > illimited ?


    No. There is a maximum of three. Choose them wisely.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me - http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/?page=132
     
    Toby A Inkster, Apr 10, 2004
    #3
  4. "A Leon" <leonjozef(remove anti spam)@skynet.be> wrote:

    > Is the number of words entered in
    > META name="keywords" content=""
    > illimited ?


    No, you can spamdex there as much as you wish, and indexing robots can
    ignore it or punish it as much as they wish.

    > And can I also enter words in other languages - even arabic ?


    Naturally. Of course it gets more and more pointless.

    If your document is not in Arabic, why would you like to fool people into
    finding it when they are looking for documents in Arabic?

    > Does entering too much words not result in a negative reaction of the
    > search robot ?


    Absolutely maybe, depending unconditionally on the circumstances.

    > And I suppose it helps to enter these words also in free text further
    > in the document ?


    Are you asking us what you suppose?

    > Is the position : beginning or end of the document
    > of interest.


    It is.

    To summarize, forget that you ever heard of <meta name="keywords" ...>.
    The _only_ situation where they might make some sense is this: You have
    document that is historical, or for some other reason the content proper
    must not be changed, yet it contains several essential words in
    _declined_ forms only. (This is largely irrelevant to languages such as
    English and French, which have very little declination, but more
    important to languages such as German, and rather essential to languages
    like Hungarian.) Since people probably use the base forms of words in
    their queries, you might consider adding a <meta> tag that lists base
    forms of such essential words. - But for documents with modifiable
    content, it is better to reformulate or add sentences so that key words
    appear in base form too.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Apr 10, 2004
    #4
  5. A Leon

    A Leon Guest

    Thanks for your reaction.


    "Jukka K. Korpela" <> schreef in bericht
    news:Xns94C784CD6CA4Fjkorpelacstutfi@193.229.0.31...
    > "A Leon" <leonjozef(remove anti spam)@skynet.be> wrote:
    >
    > > Is the number of words entered in
    > > META name="keywords" content=""
    > > illimited ?

    >
    > No, you can spamdex there as much as you wish, and indexing robots can
    > ignore it or punish it as much as they wish.
    >
    > > And can I also enter words in other languages - even arabic ?

    >
    > Naturally. Of course it gets more and more pointless.
    >
    > If your document is not in Arabic, why would you like to fool people into
    > finding it when they are looking for documents in Arabic?






    I speak Flemish and may enter a search term in Flemish.
    But I am also interested in an English reply as I understand English too...



    >
    > > Does entering too much words not result in a negative reaction of the
    > > search robot ?

    >
    > Absolutely maybe, depending unconditionally on the circumstances.
    >
    > > And I suppose it helps to enter these words also in free text further
    > > in the document ?

    >
    > Are you asking us what you suppose?





    Supposing (in Flemish : veronderstellen) means that you think it is like
    that - but are not entirely sure and that you consequentially seek
    confirmation.





    >
    > > Is the position : beginning or end of the document
    > > of interest.

    >


    > It is.




    so line numbers should be important ?


    >
    > To summarize, forget that you ever heard of <meta name="keywords" ...>.
    > The _only_ situation where they might make some sense is this: You have
    > document that is historical, or for some other reason the content proper
    > must not be changed, yet it contains several essential words in
    > _declined_ forms only. (This is largely irrelevant to languages such as
    > English and French, which have very little declination, but more
    > important to languages such as German, and rather essential to languages
    > like Hungarian.) Since people probably use the base forms of words in
    > their queries, you might consider adding a <meta> tag that lists base
    > forms of such essential words. - But for documents with modifiable
    > content, it is better to reformulate or add sentences so that key words
    > appear in base form too.


    Do I conclude that for the average search robot, a word in the besa text is
    as important as a word in the meta tag ?

    thanks.


    >
    > --
    > Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    > Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
    >
    >
     
    A Leon, Apr 10, 2004
    #5
  6. "Jukka K. Korpela" <> writes:

    > To summarize, forget that you ever heard of <meta name="keywords" ...>.
    > The _only_ situation where they might make some sense is this: You have
    > document that is historical, or for some other reason the content proper
    > must not be changed, yet it contains several essential words in
    > _declined_ forms only.


    Forgetting their irrelevance for search engines due to excessive abuse
    for a moment, keywords *could* also be used sensible for common typos
    and odd synonyms; some pre made local search engine facilities provide
    support for that since it is rather simple, in such cases possibly even
    in adantage for the user.


    --
    | ) 111010111011 | http://bednarz.nl/
    -(
    | ) Distribute me: http://binaries.bednarz.nl/mp3/aisha
     
    Eric B. Bednarz, Apr 10, 2004
    #6
  7. A Leon

    Spartanicus Guest

    Eric B. Bednarz <> wrote:

    >> To summarize, forget that you ever heard of <meta name="keywords" ...>.
    >> The _only_ situation where they might make some sense is this: You have
    >> document that is historical, or for some other reason the content proper
    >> must not be changed, yet it contains several essential words in
    >> _declined_ forms only.

    >
    >Forgetting their irrelevance for search engines due to excessive abuse
    >for a moment, keywords *could* also be used sensible for common typos


    This is a job for the SE, not for a site's author. SEs cater for that
    sort of thing already (Google: Did you mean "flubberwocky"?).

    --
    Spartanicus
     
    Spartanicus, Apr 10, 2004
    #7
  8. A Leon

    DU Guest

    Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

    > "A Leon" <leonjozef(remove anti spam)@skynet.be> wrote:
    >


    [snipped]

    >
    >>And can I also enter words in other languages - even arabic ?

    >
    >
    > Naturally. Of course it gets more and more pointless.
    >
    > If your document is not in Arabic, why would you like to fool people into
    > finding it when they are looking for documents in Arabic?
    >


    [snipped]

    What if the document is in English but you also have corresponding
    translations in German, Spanish, Portuguese, etc..? I happen to have
    such website, you see, and I have included 25 groups of keywords for
    each language.

    DU
     
    DU, Apr 10, 2004
    #8
  9. DU wrote:

    >> If your document is not in Arabic, why would you like to fool people into
    >> finding it when they are looking for documents in Arabic?


    > What if the document is in English but you also have corresponding
    > translations in German, Spanish, Portuguese, etc..?


    Then you would put the German keywords in the meta data for the German
    translation, and the Spanish keywords in the meta data for the Spanish
    translation and so on.



    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
     
    David Dorward, Apr 10, 2004
    #9
  10. A Leon

    Big Bill Guest

    On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:36:28 +0200, "A Leon" <leonjozef(remove anti
    spam)@skynet.be> wrote:

    >Is the number of words entered in
    >META name="keywords" content=""
    >illimited ?


    I've seen it suggested that around 150 characters including white
    space is the optimum.

    >And can I also enter words in other languages - even arabic ?


    Well you could ........

    >Does entering too much words not result in a negative reaction of the search
    >robot ?


    No, they'll just ignore most of it.

    >And I suppose it helps to enter these words also in free text further in the
    >document ? Is the position : beginning or end of the document of interest.


    Some say both. Can't hurt.

    >Thanks on forehand for any help


    No sweat.

    BB
     
    Big Bill, Apr 10, 2004
    #10
  11. A Leon

    Big Bill Guest

    On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:32:43 +0100, David Dorward <>
    wrote:

    >A Leon wrote:
    >
    >> Is the number of words entered in
    >> META name="keywords" content=""
    >> illimited ?

    >
    >The specification doesn't impose any limit.
    >
    >> And can I also enter words in other languages - even arabic ?

    >
    >Of course, just make sure you use a suitable character encoding for your
    >document.
    >
    >> Does entering too much words not result in a negative reaction of the
    >> search robot ?

    >
    >Search engines do not publish the rules they use for indexing, anecdotal
    >evidence would suggest that those few search engines which pay any
    >attention to meta keywords penalise pages using large numbers of them.


    Not any anecdotes I ever heard.

    BB
     
    Big Bill, Apr 10, 2004
    #11
  12. A Leon

    Big Bill Guest

    On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 16:42:08 +0200, "A Leon" <leonjozef(remove anti
    spam)@skynet.be> wrote:

    >Thanks for your reaction.


    Um, you mean "thanks for your response".

    BB


    >"Jukka K. Korpela" <> schreef in bericht
    >news:Xns94C784CD6CA4Fjkorpelacstutfi@193.229.0.31...
    >> "A Leon" <leonjozef(remove anti spam)@skynet.be> wrote:
    >>
    >> > Is the number of words entered in
    >> > META name="keywords" content=""
    >> > illimited ?

    >>
    >> No, you can spamdex there as much as you wish, and indexing robots can
    >> ignore it or punish it as much as they wish.
    >>
    >> > And can I also enter words in other languages - even arabic ?

    >>
    >> Naturally. Of course it gets more and more pointless.
    >>
    >> If your document is not in Arabic, why would you like to fool people into
    >> finding it when they are looking for documents in Arabic?

    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >I speak Flemish and may enter a search term in Flemish.
    >But I am also interested in an English reply as I understand English too...
    >
    >
    >
    >>
    >> > Does entering too much words not result in a negative reaction of the
    >> > search robot ?

    >>
    >> Absolutely maybe, depending unconditionally on the circumstances.
    >>
    >> > And I suppose it helps to enter these words also in free text further
    >> > in the document ?

    >>
    >> Are you asking us what you suppose?

    >
    >
    >
    >
    >Supposing (in Flemish : veronderstellen) means that you think it is like
    >that - but are not entirely sure and that you consequentially seek
    >confirmation.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >>
    >> > Is the position : beginning or end of the document
    >> > of interest.

    >>

    >
    >> It is.

    >
    >
    >
    >so line numbers should be important ?
    >
    >
    >>
    >> To summarize, forget that you ever heard of <meta name="keywords" ...>.
    >> The _only_ situation where they might make some sense is this: You have
    >> document that is historical, or for some other reason the content proper
    >> must not be changed, yet it contains several essential words in
    >> _declined_ forms only. (This is largely irrelevant to languages such as
    >> English and French, which have very little declination, but more
    >> important to languages such as German, and rather essential to languages
    >> like Hungarian.) Since people probably use the base forms of words in
    >> their queries, you might consider adding a <meta> tag that lists base
    >> forms of such essential words. - But for documents with modifiable
    >> content, it is better to reformulate or add sentences so that key words
    >> appear in base form too.

    >
    >Do I conclude that for the average search robot, a word in the besa text is
    >as important as a word in the meta tag ?
    >
    >thanks.
    >
    >
    >>
    >> --
    >> Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    >> Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
    >>
    >>

    >
     
    Big Bill, Apr 10, 2004
    #12
  13. A Leon

    Big Bill Guest

    On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:33:40 +0100, Toby A Inkster
    <> wrote:

    >A Leon wrote:
    >
    >> Is the number of words entered in
    >> META name="keywords" content=""
    >> illimited ?

    >
    >No. There is a maximum of three. Choose them wisely.


    Ignore this pratt.

    BB
     
    Big Bill, Apr 10, 2004
    #13
  14. "A Leon" <leonjozef(remove anti spam)@skynet.be> wrote:

    > I speak Flemish and may enter a search term in Flemish.
    > But I am also interested in an English reply as I understand English
    > too...


    Then run some searches with English keywords. It is unrealistic to expect
    to find English documents when your search terms are Flemish.
    As an author, you would mislead people if you included e.g. Arabic
    keywords into a document in Flemish, since then people who use Arabic
    terms in their searches would find your pages, irrespectively of whether
    they understand a word of Flemish or not.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Apr 10, 2004
    #14
  15. A Leon

    Rob McAninch Guest

    A Leon <news:407806e5$0$1352$>:

    >>"Jukka K. Korpela" <> writes:
    >> > Is the position : beginning or end of the document
    >> > of interest.

    >>
    >> It is.

    >
    > so line numbers should be important ?


    Perhaps not so much line numbers, as simply the amount of text.
    That is, you might run a bunch of HTML on one line. The basic
    idea is the further into you page a robot has to read the less
    weight you keyword will have.

    Certainly the best keywords are the ones used on the page itself
    for headings or in the content. As well as the title of the page,
    even alt="" values in images are most likely carrying more weight
    than meta keywords.

    --
    Rob - http://rock13.com/
    Web Stuff: http://rock13.com/webhelp/
     
    Rob McAninch, Apr 11, 2004
    #15
  16. A Leon

    A Leon Guest

    It is not because somebody enters a Keyword in let's say arabic that he is
    only looking for an arabic webpage in this connection.
    He is looking for information regarding the keyword.
    It is of course nice if he finds a usable page in arabic.
    But if an english page describes better what he is looking for he will
    certainly prefer that page if he understands english.
    I speak four languages and will allways try to find that page where I find
    the most detailed information and I will not be looking first for a page in
    my mothertongue.
    greetings


    "Jukka K. Korpela" <> schreef in bericht
    news:Xns94C8436C4C0Ajkorpelacstutfi@193.229.0.31...
    > "A Leon" <leonjozef(remove anti spam)@skynet.be> wrote:
    >
    > > I speak Flemish and may enter a search term in Flemish.
    > > But I am also interested in an English reply as I understand English
    > > too...

    >
    > Then run some searches with English keywords. It is unrealistic to expect
    > to find English documents when your search terms are Flemish.
    > As an author, you would mislead people if you included e.g. Arabic
    > keywords into a document in Flemish, since then people who use Arabic
    > terms in their searches would find your pages, irrespectively of whether
    > they understand a word of Flemish or not.
    >
    > --
    > Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    > Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
    >
    >
     
    A Leon, Apr 11, 2004
    #16
  17. "A Leon" <leonjozef(remove anti spam)@skynet.be> wrote:

    > But if an english page describes better what he is looking for he will
    > certainly prefer that page if he understands english.


    And if he does not?

    The point becomes clearer if you consider some relatively rare languages.
    Would you like to find a page in Finnish when you have written French in
    your search box?

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Apr 11, 2004
    #17
  18. A Leon wrote:

    Please read http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post before responding.

    > It is not because somebody enters a Keyword in let's say arabic that he is
    > only looking for an arabic webpage in this connection.
    > He is looking for information regarding the keyword.
    > It is of course nice if he finds a usable page in arabic.
    > But if an english page describes better what he is looking for he will
    > certainly prefer that page if he understands english.


    If http://www.zompist.com/numbers.shtml can be considered reliable, there
    are over 4,500 human languages.

    Do you propose putting meta data in for every single one of them?

    That's going to make one very big HTML document.

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
     
    David Dorward, Apr 11, 2004
    #18
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