Use of the Symbol font not recognized by Mozilla ..???

J

joesplink

I wanted to use some greek letters on my web page, and discovered that
using the Symbol font would do the trick as far as MS Word, and MS
Explorer are concerned.

However, I now see that Mozilla Firefox does not recognize this font
and the correct characters are not displayed.

Note: all the testing is done on my computer, so I know the font is on
the computer somewhere.

What is the remedy?

Thanks,

Will
www.berkeleyscience.com
 
M

Michael Fesser

..oO(joesplink)
I wanted to use some greek letters on my web page, and discovered that
using the Symbol font would do the trick as far as MS Word, and MS
Explorer are concerned.

You don't need any special font.
However, I now see that Mozilla Firefox does not recognize this font
and the correct characters are not displayed.

Can you post a URL to a test case? Modern browsers are able to display
almost any char. Test for yourself:

http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/multilingual1.html

Micha
 
J

joesplink

.oO(joesplink)


You don't need any special font.


Can you post a URL to a test case? Modern browsers are able to display
almost any char. Test for yourself:

http://www.unics.uni-hannover.de/nhtcapri/multilingual1.html

Micha

You're right ... the page you linked displays fine on my Mozilla
browser..... so ... there is a solution !


Here is a page that uses the Symbol font for Greek letters that
doesn't display correctly ...

http://www.berkeleyscience.com/relativity.htm

Here is a formula that is supposed to contain Greek letters, as it
displays on my Mozilla browser

T = L/(c + v) + L/(c - v) = 2cL/(c2 - v2) = 2L/c(1 - v2/c2) = 2L/c g2

(the g is a Symbol font character ... but it's displaying as just a g)

Thanks ... !
 
R

richard

You're right ... the page you linked displays fine on my Mozilla
browser..... so ... there is a solution !


Here is a page that uses the Symbol font for Greek letters that
doesn't display correctly ...

http://www.berkeleyscience.com/relativity.htm

Here is a formula that is supposed to contain Greek letters, as it
displays on my Mozilla browser

T = L/(c + v) + L/(c - v) = 2cL/(c2 - v2) = 2L/c(1 - v2/c2) = 2L/c g2

(the g is a Symbol font character ... but it's displaying as just a g)

Thanks ... !

In that case, you could probably use the equivelant "&#" assignment.
As well as the "&name" like in "&iota".

http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/entities/symbols.html
 
M

Michael Fesser

..oO(richard)
In that case, you could probably use the equivelant "&#" assignment.
As well as the "&name" like in "&iota".

With a proper encoding like UTF-8 such character references are not
needed anymore.

Micha
 
M

Michael Fesser

..oO(joesplink)
Here is a page that uses the Symbol font for Greek letters that
doesn't display correctly ...

http://www.berkeleyscience.com/relativity.htm

Here is a formula that is supposed to contain Greek letters, as it
displays on my Mozilla browser

T = L/(c + v) + L/(c - v) = 2cL/(c2 - v2) = 2L/c(1 - v2/c2) = 2L/c g2

(the g is a Symbol font character ... but it's displaying as just a g)

It's shown as a 'g' because in fact it is a 'g', given its code point
0x67. Using another font with other glyphs to display it as something
else doesn't change the character itself.

Consider to use UTF-8 encoding instead of Windows-1252 and write those
chars literarily as what they really are, then you won't have any
problems. Almost every browser supports UTF-8.

Micha
 
A

Andy Dingley

I wanted to use some greek letters on my web page,

Then use them.

As they're hard to type on a qwerty keyboard, it's not easy to embed
them as characters. This would also require you to get the encodings
right.

A simpler solution, that's more readable than using numeric character
entities is to use HTML's pre-defined set of character entity
references. The canonical list of these is here:
<http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/sgml/entities.html#h-24.3>
e.g. <!ENTITY Epsilon CDATA "Ε" -- greek capital letter
epsilon, U+0395 -->

So use &Epsilon; or &epsilon; (upper and lower case) rather than
Ε

Easy to type, probably clearer to read (to many English speakers) than
the characters themselves, and robust against the usual problems of
getting your encodings right.

Certainly DO NOT use MS Symbol to try and represent these characters.
The shape of the glyphs is right, but Symbol works by taking the
English-Latin "B" character and mis-representing it as looking like a
Greek Beta. That's just typographic transvestism. Don't do it on the
web.

If you need characters beyond this (set logic etc.), use Unicode and a
UTF-8 encoding. Then either enter the characters directly, or use the
appropriate numeric entities.


Most desktop web browser fonts should support Greek characters, or
else the browser will fallback to something that does. Don't try to
set anything peculiar, just let "serif" or "sans-serif" stand and let
the client work out the rest.
 
J

joesplink

.oO(joesplink)




It's shown as a 'g' because in fact it is a 'g', given its code point
0x67. Using another font with other glyphs to display it as something
else doesn't change the character itself.

Consider to use UTF-8 encoding instead of Windows-1252 and write those
chars literarily as what they really are, then you won't have any
problems. Almost every browser supports UTF-8.

Micha

I'll probably go with the quick fix.

But, suppose I did want to switch to UTF-8, wouldn't I need a UTF-8
editor to edit my htm page? (I currently use notepad) Where to find
such an editor?
 
T

tech578

I'll probably go with the quick fix.

But, suppose I did want to switch to UTF-8, wouldn't I need a UTF-8
editor to edit my htm page? (I currently use notepad) Where to find
such an editor?

Notepad recognizes utf-8.
 
H

Harlan Messinger

joesplink said:
I'll probably go with the quick fix.

But, suppose I did want to switch to UTF-8, wouldn't I need a UTF-8
editor to edit my htm page? (I currently use notepad) Where to find
such an editor?

If you use the for characters > 127 then a pure ASCII editor
will suffice.
 
M

Michael Fesser

..oO(joesplink)
But, suppose I did want to switch to UTF-8, wouldn't I need a UTF-8
editor to edit my htm page? (I currently use notepad) Where to find
such an editor?

Notepad can handle it. There are also many more powerful alternatives,
though. Before I came to the Eclipse IDE for example, my favourite
editor was jEdit. It took some time to get used to it, but it was worth
every single second. The features were just great.

Micha
 
J

Jukka K. Korpela

Scripsit Andy Dingley:
Then use them.

Yes, Greek is fun! But beware: not everything that looks like a Greek
letter is a Greek letter. For example, epsilon and delta as used in
calculus are Greek letters, but the n-ary summation symbol, though
historically based on capital sigma and looking much like it, is not a
Greek letter, or a letter at all, but a separate character, with a code
position of its own.
As they're hard to type on a qwerty keyboard, it's not easy to embed
them as characters.

Actually, it's relatively easy to type them. Install a Greek keyboard
layout, and the A key will produce alpha, the B key will produce beta,
etc., with some correspondences that aren't that intuitive but
learnable. On Windows, you can by default switch between different
keyboard layouts using Alt+Shift.
This would also require you to get the encodings right.

Surely. You would need to save the file in an appropriate encoding, like
utf-8, _and_ to make sure that the server sends a correct Content-Type
header.
A simpler solution, that's more readable than using numeric character
entities is to use HTML's pre-defined set of character entity
references.

That's certainly a simple approach and requires just a little care - the
names must be spelled correctly
Certainly DO NOT use MS Symbol to try and represent these characters.

Such tricks used to be popular in some circles, often advertized against
expert advice, and now they are firing back.

A construct like <font face="Symbol">a</font> means just the Latin
letter "a", with a suggestion to use the Symbol font, and since Symbol
contains no such character, the suggestion shall be ignored and another
font be used instead.
The shape of the glyphs is right, but Symbol works by taking the
English-Latin "B" character and mis-representing it as looking like a
Greek Beta.

(Well, for "B", you might not notice the difference. In all fonts that
contain the Latin B and the Greek capital beta, the glyphs are
identical. They're still by definition distinct characters. And you
might see a difference caused by font difference, just as Arial B looks
different from Times B.)

Early browsers tended to get this wrong, but even such browsers actually
display <font face="Symbol">a</font> as "a" when configured to ignore
font settings on web pages or to apply a user style sheet that enforces
a particular font.
That's just typographic transvestism. Don't do it on the web.

Or elsewhere. The Symbol font is best left unused. The glyphs in it
don't really match the glyphs of other fonts you're using, and commonly
available fonts contain much better presentation for Greek letters, for
example.
 
J

joesplink

I wanted to use some greek letters on my web page, and discovered that
using the Symbol font would do the trick as far as MS Word, and MS
Explorer are concerned.

However, I now see that Mozilla Firefox does not recognize this font
and the correct characters are not displayed.

Note: all the testing is done on my computer, so I know the font is on
the computer somewhere.

What is the remedy?

Thanks,

Willwww.berkeleyscience.com

Thanks to all. All fixed now, e.g.

www.berkeleyscience.com/synopsis4.htm

I just did the &omega; business. Perfect.
 
D

dorayme

richard said:
Does anyone really care to know all that crap?

Yes, there are people who take an interest in things other than
how to get a difficult sump plug off a 4-ton Bedford truck.
 
A

Andy Dingley

By the time anyone had all that figured out, he'd not have the time to
write the music before his impending death.
Unless he started at the age of 10.

Does anyone really care to know all that crap?

Yes Bullis, there are.

That's why you're universally known as "Richard The Stupid", other
people, people who take an interest in topics like Fourier, aren't
labelled that way.
 
R

richard

By the time anyone had all that figured out, he'd not have the time to
write the music before his impending death.
Unless he started at the age of 10.

Does anyone really care to know all that crap?

Yes Bullis, there are [people who care].

That's why you're universally known as "Richard The Stupid", other
people, people who take an interest in topics like Fourier, aren't
labelled that way.

Pardon Moi y scusami por favor.
My forte' is not the art of orchestration.
I could care less how the orchestra is arranged, only that the
musicians know how to play what is given them.
In my younger days, I had learned how to play the piano, accordian
(eeek!), trumpet, and even the guitar kind of.
 
A

Andy Dingley

In my younger days, I had learned how to play the piano, accordian (eeek!)

Thanks for the offer, but I think I'll keep the monkey.
I'm not sure the little velvet suit would fit you anyway.
 

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