ValueFirst "FAME" Awards for programmers

[naren]

Excellent opportunity for programmers:

ValueFirst (www.vfirst.com), a leader in mobile
data services and creator of unique Enterprise
Mobile Application is looking for "brilliant"
applications from young and enthusiastic souls.
The best of the lot who accept this challenge will
be awarded with ValueFirst "FAME" (Finest
Application in Mobile Ecosystem) Award.

For online application Login: http://www.vfirst.com/ValueFirst-FAME-Award.php

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Excellent ..
scam

.. for programmers:

ScaMFirst (www.scamfirst.com), a leader in ...
For online application Login: http://www.scamfirst.com/ValueFirst-FAME-Award.php

This seems like some 'cheap and nasty' way to get
cheap programming done.
- The prize money is Rs 100,000 - about 2500 USD.
- It is only paid to the 'winner' of the team with 'up to 4' people -
no second/third prizes. But already only $625 when split.
- No specific mention is made of who owns code that is
submitted. What's the bet that ValueFirst will claim ownership?
- There is no mention of how/where the winners will be announced
(so the company might claim a non-existent contestant 'won', and
keep the code and the *money*).
- It is asking for a relatively specific, commercially viable product
(effectively).

Just as a question. Do Indian competitions with prizes have
to be registered with a government authority? I would be
surprised if they do not, what with India having been a British
colony and them taking up (like ducks to water) the British
style bureaucracy.

Why not just be (more) honest and offer the work on e-lance?

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.physci.org/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200711/1

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

Why not just be (more) honest and offer the work on e-lance?

I had never heard about that site, so I paid them a quick visit...

As I suspected, they are a copycat of the original, the one that has
been featured in the Wall Street Journal and BusinessWeek, Rent A
Coder.

http://www.rentacoder.com

Now, *that* is a topic that deserves a newsgroup of its own.

-Ramon

 

[Steve Sobol]

I had never heard about that site, so I paid them a quick visit...

As I suspected, they are a copycat of the original, the one that has
been featured in the Wall Street Journal and BusinessWeek, Rent A
Coder.

http://www.rentacoder.com

Now, *that* is a topic that deserves a newsgroup of its own.

Um. Rentacoder is a piece of shit.

I actually registered there a couple years ago to try to get freelance
work. Unless you're in Asia and offering your work at $5/hour you may as
well not even post there. The site is a complete joke.

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

Um. Rentacoder is a piece of shit.

Of course it is not. It is capitalism in its finest form. Demand &
supply in action. The first day I was there I arrived to a most
important conclusion, which I would like to share with the readers:

RentACoder is a marketplace to BUY, not to SELL

(at least for "us" for some definition of "us", c.l.j.p participants)

If you don't have the entrepreneur gene, stay away from RAC.

-Ramon

 

[Andrew Thompson]

Of course it is not. It is capitalism in its finest form. Demand &
supply in action. The first day I was there I arrived to a most
important conclusion, which I would like to share with the readers:

RentACoder is a marketplace to BUY, not to SELL

I agree mostly.

Though has anybody here had the experience of
perhaps contracting work out to the 'rent-a-coder'
type sites (that they would admit)? Perhaps
some work outside your own direct line of
experience that was simpler to (sub-)contract out,
rather than delve into the details yourself?

What quality code does it produce? Is it
maintainable? Comprehensible? Well designed?

(I have never bought, nor sold, services via. the
rent-a-coder sites personally, but had considered
contracting work out to them.)

--
Andrew Thompson
http://www.physci.org/

Message posted via JavaKB.com
http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200711/1

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

I agree mostly.

Though has anybody here had the experience of
perhaps contracting work out to the 'rent-a-coder'
type sites (that they would admit)? Perhaps
some work outside your own direct line of
experience that was simpler to (sub-)contract out,
rather than delve into the details yourself?

What quality code does it produce? Is it
maintainable? Comprehensible? Well designed?

(I have never bought, nor sold, services via. the
rent-a-coder sites personally, but had considered
contracting work out to them.)

--

I could write a book (well, a short chapter about my RentACoder
experience. Let's just say for now that a NG for RAC-type of sites is
not only overdue, but discussing such phenomenon in a calm, rational,
objective way is a responsibility of any developer who cares about the
future of "How Programming is Done" (RAC's motto).

When RAC first appeared there was major hysteria in comp.programming.

For one thing: how should those sites be called, generically? "rent-a-
coder sites"? Like xerox in lowercase?

They have been studied by Harvard Business School, I wonder where the
study(s) report is.

-Ramon

 

[Hunter Gratzner]

Unless you're in Asia and offering your work at $5/hour you may as
well not even post there.

$5/hour? On a good day. I have seen offers of $1/hour and below.

 

[Hunter Gratzner]

I could write a book (well, a short chapter about my RentACoder
experience.

No time to do it? Rent someone via RAC to write it for you

Let's just say for now that a NG for RAC-type of sites is
not only overdue, but discussing such phenomenon in a calm, rational,
objective way is a responsibility of any developer

....

Newsgroup and calm, rational, objective discussions? Does not compute.

who cares about the
future of "How Programming is Done" (RAC's motto).

Specialize, or better yet, get an MBA and do beancounting instead.

For one thing: how should those sites be called, generically? "rent-a-
coder sites"? Like xerox in lowercase?

Programming services marketplace?

 

[Lew]

$5/hour? On a good day. I have seen offers of $1/hour and below.

How are the hours validated?

If I can get an hour in in one minute, I might not mind making $5 / hour. To
justify making only $1 / hour I'd need shorter hours than that.

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

How are the hours validated?

If I can get an hour in in one minute, I might not mind making $5 / hour. To
justify making only $1 / hour I'd need shorter hours than that.

The other posters' comments are misleading: in RAC you never pay by
the hour. YOU describe the complete project. YOU specify a deadline
(which can be easily pushed back). YOU submit your request for bids.
Up to this time, there is no obligation whatsoever, and you can just
say: "After all, I am not interested anymore". No harm done. Only when
you accept one of the bids you give RAC (not the programmer!) the
funds which RAC holds in your account. Only when the job is done to
your complete satisfaction they transfer the funds to the programmer
(minus their commission). If there are disagreements RAC is the judge,
and let me tell you: they seems to have a strong preference for the
code buyers - I said it already: that is a buyer's market.

One of their strongest part is the evaluations. You have access not
only to the details of every single job the bidders have finished (or
are in progress), but the grade they were given, and how many times
they have had any disagreement.

-Ramon

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

In the OpenOffice forum, there was a poster who was really upset about
not being able to figure out some macro, and he said that his last use
of OpenOffice was to write a memo ordering all OpenOffice
installations to be removed from the company's computers.

Below is my advice for him.

-Ramon

ps: I wrote "100,000 coders" based on last time I used the site, last
year: now it should read "200,000 registered coders".

--------------

ctyler:

Perhaps you are not ready for OOo, and perhaps OOo is not ready for
you (is there any difference, really?).

I am a very experienced developer and I can still sympathize with your
ordeal and travails.

Have you looked at the O'Reilly catalog? Maybe people should write to
them telling them that the second a book on OOo is published, we well
buy it. IMO and experience, the availability of an O'Reilly (I suppose
there are other minor players) book on a topic demystifies it.

Good luck and welcome back anytime you are ready to try again!

-Ramon

===============================================

jctyler:

I have another resource for you. Are you familiar with Rent-A-Coder?
It is a wonderful site (specially for us who believe in seeing
capitalism in action, in its purest form). You can post any type of
job you want (I have seen a request in which the deliverable was a
trailer for a movie that was already filmed), but as the name implies
most jobs are of a programming nature.

You will have some 100,000 individuals potentially bidding for your
job. In money terms, I have seen jobs for which $7 was paid (a
homework), as well as $7,000. You can expect to pay some $50 or even
less, in my guesstimate.

http://www.rentacoder.com

You may make a request for proposal with no obligation. It is Ok, to
say: "I changed my mind" and cancel the request. Only after the job is
delivered to your specs you have to pay, and the value is the best
available.

Out of curiosity, I just checked (you can make this type of queries
with no obligation whatsoever, just have to register and log in) and I
found 80 developers, listed by rating (we buyers rate them -and they
rate us), who include OpenOffice skills in their resumes.

-Ramon

===============================================

This is the full thread:

http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=66160

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

No time to do it? Rent someone via RAC to write it for you
Precisely!


...

Newsgroup and calm, rational, objective discussions? Does not compute.

We can always try...

Specialize, or better yet, get an MBA and do beancounting instead.

There is a point in a programmer's life when s/he arrives to the
realization that s/he will not be able to write all the software that
s/he can imagine.

Programming services marketplace?

No, because it doesn't include the web site based element. We need a
term like "portal" with which the reader immediately knows that we are
not talking about an Architecture Digest magazine's feature.

-Ramon

 

[Steve Sobol]

The other posters' comments are misleading: in RAC you never pay by
the hour.

I understand that.

But my estimates have always been based on taking a specific amount of time
and multiplying it by my hourly rate.

At my current place of employment, my work gets billed out between US $75 and
US $100 per hour. If I try to quote a job based on that range, to someone
advertising on RAC, there is NO WAY IN HELL I'd ever get the job. And when
I was freelancing, that was what happened... I signed up and discovered that
I had no chance of getting anything approaching a decent amount of money for
my job.

YOU describe the complete project. YOU specify a deadline

Um, no. I am speaking from the developer's perspective here. The client
specifies that stuff. And as someone who has looked for work on RAC, my
suggestion is: don't. They suck.

Even out in India and Russia, IT professionals and developers are
starting to get more money than US $1 - $5 per hour. As a US-based programmer,
that kind of money is not even worth my time.

Rent-a-coder is a horrible choice for someone looking for work, and unless
you're looking to hire some bottom-feeder who is willing to give away work,
it's not too useful for people offering work, either.

 

[Steve Sobol]

In the OpenOffice forum, there was a poster who was really upset about
not being able to figure out some macro, and he said that his last use
of OpenOffice was to write a memo ordering all OpenOffice
installations to be removed from the company's computers.

Dude, who the hell are you, and why do you insist on posting tons of
articles about Rent-A-Coder in a Java newsgroup?

Go away.

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

I understand that.

But my estimates have always been based on taking a specific amount of time
and multiplying it by my hourly rate.

At my current place of employment, my work gets billed out between US $75 and
US $100 per hour. If I try to quote a job based on that range, to someone
advertising on RAC, there is NO WAY IN HELL I'd ever get the job. And when
I was freelancing, that was what happened... I signed up and discovered that
I had no chance of getting anything approaching a decent amount of money for
my job.


Um, no. I am speaking from the developer's perspective here. The client
specifies that stuff. And as someone who has looked for work on RAC, my
suggestion is: don't. They suck.

Even out in India and Russia, IT professionals and developers are
starting to get more money than US $1 - $5 per hour. As a US-based programmer,
that kind of money is not even worth my time.

Rent-a-coder is a horrible choice for someone looking for work, and unless
you're looking to hire some bottom-feeder who is willing to give away work,
it's not too useful for people offering work, either.

So what you are saying is that your(?) site Geek-for-Hire is better,
right?

I looooove competition... (Seriously)

-Ramon

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

I agree mostly.

Though has anybody here had the experience of
perhaps contracting work out to the 'rent-a-coder'
type sites (that they would admit)? Perhaps
some work outside your own direct line of
experience that was simpler to (sub-)contract out,
rather than delve into the details yourself?

What quality code does it produce? Is it
maintainable? Comprehensible? Well designed?

You tell us! YOU are in control. You are the one holding the frying
pan by the handle. There are all kinds of programmers, and the
infallible Laws of Evolution sorting them out for you... Tip Numero
Uno: Make sure that the developer you choose has a good grasp of a
language called "English".

I have only found one guy that was highly opinionated and wanted to do
things his way. I am pretty sure that by now he has learned that in
RAC the Golden Rule applies.

Developer to Coder: It is MY way, or the highway.

(I have never bought, nor sold, services via. the
rent-a-coder sites personally, but had considered
contracting work out to them.)

What's stopping you? Get an account, it's free. Perform some search
for the desired skills and background, look at their resumes and
previous RAC projects, post a job for, let's say $30.

-Ramon

 

[Ramon F Herrera]

Dude, who the hell are you, and why do you insist on posting tons of
articles about Rent-A-Coder in a Java newsgroup?

Go away.

I am using RAC as an example, because it is the original, the largest,
and this is the first time I hear about your site.

Didn't you read the words *AND SIMILAR SITES* in my subject line?

We are all eyes, tell us: why your site is better? Have you ever been
reviewed by

- The Wall Street Journal
- BusinessWeek

and studied by:

- Harvard University
- other universities

Hmm?

-Ramon

 

[Steve Sobol]

So what you are saying is that your(?) site Geek-for-Hire is better,
right?

I looooove competition... (Seriously)

I don't have a site "geek for hire," idiot. I don't own or operate a website
like Rent-A-Coder, and I'm not competing with you. (So you're Rent-a-Coder?
That would explain your coming in here, shilling for the site.)

stevesobol.com is a personal site, and nothing's up there right now.
The other link is to my professional info on LinkedIn.

 

[Wojtek]

Ramon F Herrera wrote :

The other posters' comments are misleading: in RAC you never pay by
the hour. YOU describe the complete project. YOU specify a deadline
(which can be easily pushed back). YOU submit your request for bids.
Up to this time, there is no obligation whatsoever, and you can just
say: "After all, I am not interested anymore". No harm done. Only when
you accept one of the bids you give RAC (not the programmer!) the
funds which RAC holds in your account. Only when the job is done to
your complete satisfaction they transfer the funds to the programmer
(minus their commission). If there are disagreements RAC is the judge,
and let me tell you: they seems to have a strong preference for the
code buyers - I said it already: that is a buyer's market.

One of their strongest part is the evaluations. You have access not
only to the details of every single job the bidders have finished (or
are in progress), but the grade they were given, and how many times
they have had any disagreement.

You are starting to sound a bit desparate.

Are you SURE you are not affiliated with the site?