Verbose and flexible args and kwargs syntax

[Eelco]

Python has "def", "del", "int", "str", "len", and so on. "rem" or "mod"
(Ada has both, I believe) would be in keeping with the language.

def and del are keywords, and thus in another league. Having shorthand
notation for types is somewhat defensible, though I believe I would
prefer a more verbose form there too; how often to you encounter these
in python anyway? len is a bit of an eeysore to me too; I understand
having it as a builtin is a matter of optimization or something, but I
do wish we would be given the option of just saying list.length

In financial circles it could be an operator for calculating
percentages, eg. "5 % x" would be 5 percent of x.

It's an oddity, but an established one.

Well yes, thats the only argument ive heard so far that resonated with
me. These syntax details are not a very big deal, and backwards
compatibility with yourself is quite a big deal. Its nice to keep
'what ought to have been done' and 'what ought we to do' seperate in
such discussions. Im not sure we ought to change these syntax details
(I mean relating to mod and such), but I am quite sure of what I would
have done if I could go back in time.

 

[rusi]

Pseudo-backwards compatibility with other
languages, I couldnt not care less for.

Double negations n Goedelian situations have interesting implications
(tho here its triple)

 

[Eelco]

Double negations n Goedelian situations have interesting implications
(tho here its triple)

Heh. Well at least my extra (unintended) negation is semantically
consistent with the actual english usage of the phrase, which omits
the negation completely . (I could care less)

But ill stick with trying to change one language at a time .

 

[Gregory Ewing]

the actual english usage of the phrase, which omits
the negation completely . (I could care less)

No, that's the American usage. The English usage is
"I couldn't care less", which has the advantage of
actually making sense.

 

[Eelco]

No, that's the American usage. The English usage is
"I couldn't care less", which has the advantage of
actually making sense.

Oh thanks for clearing that up, never noticed a division along these
lines.

And yes, I agree; 'I couldnt care less' makes much more sense. 'I
could care less' can only make sense if you interpret it
sarcastically, as if omitting an 'oh wait, I cant', but that does not
seem congruent with how its typically pronounced. Just another case of
suboptimal language design; but where can you submit EEP's?

 

[Roy Smith]

And yes, I agree; 'I couldnt care less' makes much more sense. 'I
could care less' can only make sense if you interpret it
sarcastically, as if omitting an 'oh wait, I cant', but that does not
seem congruent with how its typically pronounced.

"I care so little about the subject that I am unwilling to spend one of
my precious apostrophes to properly express the sentiment"

 

[Steven D'Aprano]

Heh. Well at least my extra (unintended) negation is semantically
consistent with the actual english usage of the phrase, which omits the
negation completely . (I could care less)

Oh please. "I could care less" is not English. That's American.

Here in Australia, we follow the English practice of saying that we
couldn't care less.

 

[David Robinow]

Oh please. "I could care less" is not English. That's American.

Here in Australia, we follow the English practice of saying that we
couldn't care less.

Well the phrase is still somewhat controversial in the US. I never
heard it until age 19 (in 1966) and have always been somewhat
disdainful of those using it. But it appears to be hopeless.
http://articles.boston.com/2010-10-24/lifestyle/29303907_1_care-peeves-decades

 

[Grant Edwards]

No, that's the American usage.

That's the _ignorant_ American usage. Americans with a clue use the
"couldn't" version. I won't comment on the relative sizes of the two
groups.

The English usage is "I couldn't care less", which has the advantage
of actually making sense.

Indeed.