VHDL-AMS?

Discussion in 'VHDL' started by yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping), Oct 24, 2006.

  1. Any experience with the Analog and Mixed-Signal (AMS)
    extensions to VHDL in this newsgroup ?
     
    yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping), Oct 24, 2006
    #1
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  2. yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping)

    Phoenix Guest

    Dnia 24-10-2006 o 13:27:42 yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping)
    <> napisa³:

    >
    > Any experience with the Analog and Mixed-Signal (AMS)
    > extensions to VHDL in this newsgroup ?
    >

    Hi. I'm not experienced with AMS, but I'm interested this topic. If You
    know about some interesting www's about AMS I will be grateful if You
    place it here.

    Regards
    Paul
     
    Phoenix, Oct 24, 2006
    #2
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  3. yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping)

    Guest

    On Oct 24, 11:11 pm, Phoenix
    <> wrote:
    > Dnia 24-10-2006 o 13:27:42 yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping)
    > <> napisa³:
    >
    >
    >
    > > Any experience with the Analog and Mixed-Signal (AMS)
    > > extensions to VHDL in this newsgroup ?Hi. I'm not experienced with AMS, but I'm interested this topic. If You

    > know about some interesting www's about AMS I will be grateful if You
    > place it here.
    >
    > Regards
    > Paul


    Hi,

    Also please let me know about the synthesis tools available for analog
    / mixed signal circuits.

    -- Jatin
     
    , Oct 24, 2006
    #3
  4. yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping)

    Paul Floyd Guest

    On 24 Oct 2006 04:27:42 -0700, yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping)
    <> wrote:
    >
    > Any experience with the Analog and Mixed-Signal (AMS)
    > extensions to VHDL in this newsgroup ?


    A bit. I've just started working for Mentor Graphics on their ADVance-MS
    product. If I can't answer any related questions myself, I can probably
    find someone who can.

    A bientot
    Paul
    --
    Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth)
    Surgery: ennobled Gerald.
     
    Paul Floyd, Oct 24, 2006
    #4
  5. Hi Paul,

    I am currently not using ADVance-MS, but the other company´s
    simulator, so
    I think we should start with basic understanding of the language:
    I have read through "The System Designer´s Guide to VHDL-AMS" from
    Aschenden
    and have still doubts about what the "break" statement is for, about
    where analog solution points (ASP) should be computed, etc...

    Maybe you can comment something on the topic?

    yaveh ([..])

    Paul Floyd wrote:
    > On 24 Oct 2006 04:27:42 -0700, yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping)
    > <> wrote:
    > >
    > > Any experience with the Analog and Mixed-Signal (AMS)
    > > extensions to VHDL in this newsgroup ?

    >
    > A bit. I've just started working for Mentor Graphics on their ADVance-MS
    > product. If I can't answer any related questions myself, I can probably
    > find someone who can.
    >
    > A bientot
    > Paul
    > --
    > Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth)
    > Surgery: ennobled Gerald.
     
    yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping), Oct 25, 2006
    #5
  6. yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping)

    Paul Floyd Guest

    On 25 Oct 2006 00:44:02 -0700, yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping)
    <> wrote:
    >
    > Hi Paul,
    >
    > I am currently not using ADVance-MS, but the other company´s
    > simulator, so


    Too bad. Shouldn't that be 'an' other company, though? There are at
    least two others.

    > I think we should start with basic understanding of the language:
    > I have read through "The System Designer´s Guide to VHDL-AMS" from
    > Aschenden
    > and have still doubts about what the "break" statement is for, about
    > where analog solution points (ASP) should be computed, etc...


    In the simulator, there are two kernels, analog and digital. The digital
    kernel has it easy - signals have only a relative small number of
    possible states, and events (changes between those states) can only
    occur at discrete moments in time. The analog kernel, on the other hand,
    has to deal with quantities that vary continuously. The quantities are
    defined by a set of characteristic equations. These are solved using
    numerical methods for differential equations. Such methods use a dynamic
    time step. If the quantities change slowly, and it's easy to converge on
    a solution, then the analog time step will increase. Conversely, if
    there's no convergence, the analog time step will be decreased.

    'break' causes the analog kernel to synchronise with the digital kernel.
    This might be because there is a discontinuity in the analog quantities.

    It is also possible to synchronize from the digital side, e.g., with
    'above.

    A bientot
    Paul
    --
    Dr. Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth)
    Surgery: ennobled Gerald.
     
    Paul Floyd, Oct 25, 2006
    #6
  7. Paul Floyd wrote:
    > >
    > > I am currently not using ADVance-MS, but the other company´s
    > > simulator, so

    >
    > Too bad. Shouldn't that be 'an' other company, though? There are at
    > least two others.


    Well, it actually should be "the other companies´ simulators"...

    > In the simulator, there are two kernels,[..].
    > 'break' causes the analog kernel to synchronise with the digital kernel.
    > This might be because there is a discontinuity in the analog quantities.
    > It is also possible to synchronize from the digital side, e.g., with
    > 'above.


    What do you exactly mean by "synchronise" ?

    I actually expect that the analog kernel will provide an exact (within
    the
    tolerances) solution at the time where sampling (assignment of a
    quantity
    into a signal or variable) occurs.
    Additionally, I expect to be able to force the analog kernel to provide
    one
    of the above mentioned analog solution points (or ASP) by using the
    break statement in the discrete time domain, e.g.: inside a process
    with e.g.:

    for i in 1 to 10 loop
    wait for 10 ns;
    break;
    end loop;

    Of course, as you mentioned, you can use <quantity>´above(level) as an

    implicit boolean signal that will trigger events on the discrete time
    domain,
    as any other signal.

    What do you mean with "synchronize from the digital side" when writing
    about
    Q´above ?
     
    yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping), Oct 26, 2006
    #7
  8. yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping)

    Paul Floyd Guest

    On 26 Oct 2006 04:44:00 -0700, yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping)
    <> wrote:
    > Paul Floyd wrote:
    >> > I am currently not using ADVance-MS, but the other company´s
    >> > simulator, so

    >>
    >> Too bad. Shouldn't that be 'an' other company, though? There are at
    >> least two others.

    >
    > Well, it actually should be "the other companies´ simulators"...


    Even worse :-(

    > > In the simulator, there are two kernels,[..].
    >> 'break' causes the analog kernel to synchronise with the digital kernel.
    >> This might be because there is a discontinuity in the analog quantities.
    >> It is also possible to synchronize from the digital side, e.g., with
    >> 'above.

    >
    > What do you exactly mean by "synchronise" ?


    That analog time == digital time.

    > I actually expect that the analog kernel will provide an exact (within
    > the tolerances) solution at the time where sampling (assignment of a
    > quantity into a signal or variable) occurs.


    I'm not sure that I fully understand yet the electrical (if any) and
    temporal consequences of assigning a quantity to a variable. Conversion
    between quantities and signals isn't straightforward. I'm not sure that
    it causes synchronization.

    > Additionally, I expect to be able to force the analog kernel to provide
    > one of the above mentioned analog solution points (or ASP) by using the
    > break statement in the discrete time domain, e.g.: inside a process
    > with e.g.:
    >
    > for i in 1 to 10 loop
    > wait for 10 ns;
    > break;
    > end loop;
    >
    > Of course, as you mentioned, you can use <quantity>´above(level) as an
    > implicit boolean signal that will trigger events on the discrete time
    > domain, as any other signal.
    >
    > What do you mean with "synchronize from the digital side" when writing
    > about Q´above ?


    Q'above causes a digital event to occur as a result of an analog
    quantity (as opposed to a break causing an analog ASP to occur at a
    digital event).

    A bientot
    Paul
    --
    Dr. Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth)
    Surgery: ennobled Gerald.
     
    Paul Floyd, Oct 26, 2006
    #8
  9. yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping)

    Guest


    > Also please let me know about the synthesis tools available for analog
    > / mixed signal circuits.


    There no viable synthesis tools for AMS circuits. Maybe having
    languages like VHDL-AMS will change that, but I doubt it.
     
    , Nov 2, 2006
    #9
  10. should it possibly be reasonable, to setup an own group here at
    google's for vhdl-ams?

    i am strongly interested in this nearby ...
     
    homoalteraiensis, Nov 7, 2006
    #10
  11. yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping)

    Paul Floyd Guest

    On 7 Nov 2006 10:26:13 -0800, homoalteraiensis
    <> wrote:
    >
    > should it possibly be reasonable, to setup an own group here at
    > google's for vhdl-ams?
    >
    > i am strongly interested in this nearby ...


    Is there enough interest? This group only gets ~10 posts a day. My guess
    is that VHDL-AMS would only get ~1 a day.

    Personally, I prefer real usenet newsgroups, rather than mailing lists
    or proprietary 'message boards'. Still, if it's not going to be usenet,
    then I'd go for a mailing list (e.g., run by mailman).

    A bientot
    Paul
    --
    Paul Floyd http://paulf.free.fr (for what it's worth)
    Surgery: ennobled Gerald.
     
    Paul Floyd, Nov 7, 2006
    #11
  12. yaveh (Yet Another Vhdl Engineer Hoping)

    Phoenix Guest

    Dnia 07-11-2006 o 23:00:49 Paul Floyd <root@127.0.0.1> napisa³:

    > On 7 Nov 2006 10:26:13 -0800, homoalteraiensis
    > <> wrote:
    >>
    >> should it possibly be reasonable, to setup an own group here at
    >> google's for vhdl-ams?
    >>
    >> i am strongly interested in this nearby ...

    >
    > Is there enough interest? This group only gets ~10 posts a day. My guess
    > is that VHDL-AMS would only get ~1 a day.


    I agree with You. VHDL-AMS have too small interested "fans" ;) Maybe
    someday...

    Regards
    Phoenix
     
    Phoenix, Nov 8, 2006
    #12
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