Video: Ryan Dahl: Node.js

Discussion in 'Javascript' started by Ry Nohryb, May 25, 2010.

  1. Ry Nohryb

    Ry Nohryb Guest

    Ry Nohryb, May 25, 2010
    #1
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  2. Ry Nohryb

    David Mark Guest

    David Mark, May 25, 2010
    #2
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  3. Ry Nohryb

    Ry Nohryb Guest

    On May 25, 7:52 pm, David Mark <> wrote:
    > Ry Nohryb wrote:
    > >http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/video.php?v=dahl-node

    >
    > Do you read this group at all?  :)
    >
    > Stop polluting your brain with YUI drivel.  Do I really need to review
    > their "Node.js"


    Yes, you ought to. Node.js has nothing to do with YUI. Node.js is a
    wonderful thing for any JS programmer, even more so if he happens to
    love unix.

    > or can we just agree that this post was some sort of bad
    > joke on your part?


    You're a bit too much irascible, istm.
    --
    Jorge.
     
    Ry Nohryb, May 25, 2010
    #3
  4. Ry Nohryb

    Scott Sauyet Guest

    David Mark wrote:
    > Ry Nohryb wrote:
    >> http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/video.php?v=dahl-node

    >
    > Do you read this group at all?  :)
    >
    > Stop polluting your brain with YUI drivel.  Do I really need to review
    > their "Node.js" or can we just agree that this post was some sort of bad
    > joke on your part?


    If someone is to review this, I hope it is not someone whose main
    focus seems to be on browser scripting.

    Node.js is all about server-side JS, using the V8 engine.

    I don't know enough about that subject to offer a review, but would
    love to see one from someone who does. There are some surprising
    results, including a simple server that outperforms nginx in requests/
    second.

    One interesting thing about the presentation is the argument that
    JavaScript is the perfect language for doing IO-centric operations if
    only JS supported IO. It's reasonably convincing.

    --
    Scott
     
    Scott Sauyet, May 25, 2010
    #4
  5. Ry Nohryb

    Ry Nohryb Guest

    On May 25, 8:12 pm, Scott Sauyet <> wrote:
    > David Mark wrote:
    > > Ry Nohryb wrote:
    > >>http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/video.php?v=dahl-node

    >
    > > Do you read this group at all?  :)

    >
    > > Stop polluting your brain with YUI drivel.  Do I really need to review
    > > their "Node.js" or can we just agree that this post was some sort of bad
    > > joke on your part?

    >
    > If someone is to review this, I hope it is not someone whose main
    > focus seems to be on browser scripting.
    >
    > Node.js is all about server-side JS, using the V8 engine.
    >
    > I don't know enough about that subject to offer a review, but would
    > love to see one from someone who does.  There are some surprising
    > results, including a simple server that outperforms nginx in requests/
    > second.
    >
    > One interesting thing about the presentation is the argument that
    > JavaScript is the perfect language for doing IO-centric operations if
    > only JS supported IO.  It's reasonably convincing.


    And you can use it to script a unix system in JavaScript. It even
    accepts a shebang in the script files, so a source text.js file
    behaves exactly as a (binary) program. It has a rich built-in API, and
    a module loader : http://nodejs.org/api.html
    --
    Jorge
     
    Ry Nohryb, May 25, 2010
    #5
  6. Ry Nohryb

    David Mark Guest

    Scott Sauyet wrote:
    > David Mark wrote:
    >> Ry Nohryb wrote:
    >>> http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/video.php?v=dahl-node

    >> Do you read this group at all? :)
    >>
    >> Stop polluting your brain with YUI drivel. Do I really need to review
    >> their "Node.js" or can we just agree that this post was some sort of bad
    >> joke on your part?

    >
    > If someone is to review this, I hope it is not someone whose main
    > focus seems to be on browser scripting.
    >
    > Node.js is all about server-side JS, using the V8 engine.


    Fair enough, I thought it was going to be about one of YUI's DOM modules.

    >
    > I don't know enough about that subject to offer a review, but would
    > love to see one from someone who does. There are some surprising
    > results, including a simple server that outperforms nginx in requests/
    > second.
    >
    > One interesting thing about the presentation is the argument that
    > JavaScript is the perfect language for doing IO-centric operations if
    > only JS supported IO. It's reasonably convincing.


    I might look at it, but no promises. Not my bag really.
     
    David Mark, May 25, 2010
    #6
  7. Ry Nohryb

    David Mark Guest

    Ry Nohryb wrote:
    > On May 25, 7:52 pm, David Mark <> wrote:
    >> Ry Nohryb wrote:
    >>> http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/video.php?v=dahl-node

    >> Do you read this group at all? :)
    >>
    >> Stop polluting your brain with YUI drivel. Do I really need to review
    >> their "Node.js"

    >
    > Yes, you ought to. Node.js has nothing to do with YUI.


    Well, that's something. :)

    > Node.js is a
    > wonderful thing for any JS programmer, even more so if he happens to
    > love unix.


    Whatever. Stupid name though. Sounds like a filename (hence my initial
    confusion).

    >
    >> or can we just agree that this post was some sort of bad
    >> joke on your part?

    >
    > You're a bit too much irascible, istm.


    Don't be coy "Ry", you (and your previous identity) have a much-deserved
    reputation for spamming this group with links to dubious videos (not to
    mention being completely crackers). I really don't think my response
    was unreasonable in that context.
     
    David Mark, May 25, 2010
    #7
  8. Ry Nohryb

    Scott Sauyet Guest

    David Mark wrote:
    > Scott Sauyet wrote:
    >> David Mark wrote:
    >>> Ry Nohryb wrote:
    >>>>http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/video.php?v=dahl-node

    >> [ ... ]
    >> If someone is to review this, I hope it is not someone whose main
    >> focus seems to be on browser scripting.
    >> Node.js is all about server-side JS, using the V8 engine.

    >
    > Fair enough, I thought it was going to be about one of YUI's DOM modules.


    Yes, a plain link without *any* description is pretty useless. Jorge,
    next time could you supply a little context?


    >> I don't know enough about that subject to offer a review, but would
    >> love to see one from someone who does.  There are some surprising
    >> results, including a simple server that outperforms nginx in requests/
    >> second.

    >
    >> One interesting thing about the presentation is the argument that
    >> JavaScript is the perfect language for doing IO-centric operations if
    >> only JS supported IO.  It's reasonably convincing.

    >
    > I might look at it, but no promises.  Not my bag really.


    No, I wasn't expecting you to. I'm wondering if there are those in
    the group with the requisite expertise. I would really like to learn
    more, because, for various reasons, I would love to use JS on the
    server-side, and not in some Java ghetto as several of the server-side
    JS solutions seem to prefer.

    Anyone out there with expertise in web servers and/or server-side JS
    want to offer analysis of this for us?

    --
    Scott
     
    Scott Sauyet, May 25, 2010
    #8
  9. On 5/25/2010 11:46 AM, David Mark wrote:
    > Scott Sauyet wrote:
    >> David Mark wrote:
    >>> Ry Nohryb wrote:
    >>>> http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/video.php?v=dahl-node
    >>> Do you read this group at all? :)
    >>>
    >>> Stop polluting your brain with YUI drivel. Do I really need to review
    >>> their "Node.js" or can we just agree that this post was some sort of bad
    >>> joke on your part?

    >>
    >> If someone is to review this, I hope it is not someone whose main
    >> focus seems to be on browser scripting.
    >>
    >> Node.js is all about server-side JS, using the V8 engine.

    >
    > Fair enough, I thought it was going to be about one of YUI's DOM modules.
    >

    http://nodejs.org/

    The most recent time this came up was when discussing "Non Browser
    Implementations".
     
    Garrett Smith, May 25, 2010
    #9
  10. Ry Nohryb

    Ry Nohryb Guest

    On May 25, 11:49 pm, Garrett Smith <> wrote:
    >
    > The most recent time this came up was when discussing "Non Browser
    > Implementations".


    Yes, genius, yes. And 2 months ago, when discussing another of your
    screwed-up FAQ entries: "FAQ Topic - How can I access the client-side
    filesystem? ". See: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.javascript/browse_thread/thread/70bad3c72a796504

    But, of course: http://google.com/search?q="node.js"+site:jibbering.com
    sill yields: Your search - "node.js" site:jibbering.com - did not
    match any documents

    Because the FAQ is permanently outdated.
    --
    Jorge.
     
    Ry Nohryb, May 25, 2010
    #10
  11. Ry Nohryb

    Ry Nohryb Guest

    Ry Nohryb, May 25, 2010
    #11
  12. Ry Nohryb

    David Mark Guest

    On May 25, 6:29 pm, Ry Nohryb <> wrote:
    > On May 25, 11:49 pm, Garrett Smith <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > The most recent time this came up was when discussing "Non Browser
    > > Implementations".

    >
    > Yes, genius, yes. And 2 months ago, when discussing another of your
    > screwed-up FAQ entries: "FAQ Topic - How can I access the client-side
    > filesystem? ". See:http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.javascript/browse_thread/thr...
    >
    > But, of course:http://google.com/search?q="node.js"+site:jibbering.com
    > sill yields: Your search - "node.js" site:jibbering.com - did not
    > match any documents
    >
    > Because the FAQ is permanently outdated.


    Permanently outdated?
     
    David Mark, May 26, 2010
    #12
  13. On May 25, 1:12 pm, Scott Sauyet <> wrote:
    > If someone is to review this, I hope it is not someone whose main
    > focus seems to be on browser scripting.
    >
    > Node.js is all about server-side JS, using the V8 engine.
    >
    > I don't know enough about that subject to offer a review, but would
    > love to see one from someone who does.  There are some surprising
    > results, including a simple server that outperforms nginx in requests/
    > second.
    >
    > One interesting thing about the presentation is the argument that
    > JavaScript is the perfect language for doing IO-centric operations if
    > only JS supported IO.  It's reasonably convincing.


    Here's my take on it having no knowledge of it beyond the video:

    *built on V8, hence limited to that version of JS and not whats
    supported in say Rhino

    *For the same reason its better than Microsoft's JScript.

    *Server Speed claim: Needs verification

    *Consumes a significant amount of memory for what seems to be trivial
    work.

    *Uses CommonJS style "Modules". Whether this is a good idea and
    approach is debateable as can be seen in the es-discuss mailing list.

    *Concurrency with I/O as presented is far too vague to come to a
    conclusion. It raises more questions than answers.

    *All I/O requires a callback or so he claims. This is probably
    inaccurate at best as I'm sure he doesn't include uses of the Date
    object for example. Either way, this is pretty inconvenient in
    comparison to most languages/frameworks.

    *One of the design goals is to be Low-Level, but:"Threads should only
    be used by experts.... you'll write it in C".
    I guess his big ole brain knows better than anyone who plans to use
    his invention.

    *He's also agains the use of co-routines because they're too hard,

    *A design issue that bugs me is the differing patterns for creating
    objects.
    Also the argument for the .end() method seems unnecessarily
    redundant.

    *overall I think its an immature and premature.

    If you want JS on the server stick with Rhino or JScript at this point.
     
    Michael Haufe (\TNO\), May 26, 2010
    #13
  14. Ry Nohryb

    john Guest

    On 25 May 2:54 PM, David Mark wrote:
    > Ry Nohryb wrote:
    >> On May 25, 7:52 pm, David Mark<> wrote:
    >>> Ry Nohryb wrote:
    >>>> http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/video.php?v=dahl-node
    >>> Do you read this group at all? :)
    >>>
    >>> Stop polluting your brain with YUI drivel. Do I really need to review
    >>> their "Node.js"

    >>
    >> Yes, you ought to. Node.js has nothing to do with YUI.

    >
    > Well, that's something. :)


    it's too bad that the experts/regulars in this group seem to be so
    unaware of such an interesting project as to not even recognize its
    name. to a novice (i.e. hobby programmer) such as myself it looks like
    one of the more interesting additions to the ECMAScript ecosystem in
    recent times (certainly more so than the seemingly never ending supply
    of "cross browser" scripting libraries). doing system scripting, HTTP
    servers, database drivers, web frameworks etc. in ECMAScript would seem
    like more exciting work than what the typical web application offers. do
    the people around here with a deep understanding of ECMAScript really
    not find any interest in the language outside a browsing context?

    >> Node.js is a
    >> wonderful thing for any JS programmer, even more so if he happens to
    >> love unix.

    >
    > Whatever. Stupid name though. Sounds like a filename (hence my initial
    > confusion).


    certainly no more "stupid" than a library named "My Library." honestly,
    no offense meant as your library (among others maintained by regulars
    here) has proved quite educational in my (so far insignificant) foray
    into browser scripting; but this seems like a really silly criticism in
    the broad scheme of things. in fact most popular open source projects
    seem to have "stupid" names. perhaps it's part of a grand strategy :)
     
    john, May 26, 2010
    #14
  15. On May 26, 1:05 am, john <> wrote:

    > it's too bad that the experts/regulars in this group seem to be so
    > unaware of such an interesting project as to not even recognize its
    > name.


    Its an old idea in a new form. node.js is far from the first foray of
    JavaScript into the server (which was first seen in 1998 AFAIK with
    Netscape). So is it innovative? No. Is it an interesting project?
    Sure. Perhaps once it gains a 1.0 version status, and when the novelty
    wears off it can be looked at in a more objective manner.

    > do the people around here with a deep understanding of ECMAScript really
    > not find any interest in the language outside a browsing context?


    This is a false characterization and exaggeration of the people who
    visit this group.
     
    Michael Haufe (\TNO\), May 26, 2010
    #15
  16. Ry Nohryb

    Sean Kinsey Guest

    Sean Kinsey, May 26, 2010
    #16
  17. Ry Nohryb

    Scott Sauyet Guest

    Ry Nohryb wrote:
    > On May 25, 9:54 pm, Scott Sauyet <> wrote:
    >> (...) Jorge, next time could you supply a little context? (...)

    >
    > Sure, Scott. Here's some more:
    >
    > http://jsconf.eu/2009/video_nodejs_by_ryan_dahl.html
    > http://vimeo.com/9968301


    I can't tell if this is simply intended as a joke.

    I was complaining about your posting a raw link to a video without
    accompanying it with some text describing what the video is about.
    Posting two more links to additional videos -- again with no
    explanation -- just makes it worse.

    --
    Scott
     
    Scott Sauyet, May 26, 2010
    #17
  18. Ry Nohryb

    Ry Nohryb Guest

    On May 26, 4:36 pm, Scott Sauyet <> wrote:
    > Ry Nohryb wrote:
    > > On May 25, 9:54 pm, Scott Sauyet <> wrote:
    > >> (...) Jorge, next time could you supply a little context? (...)

    >
    > > Sure, Scott. Here's some more:

    >
    > >http://jsconf.eu/2009/video_nodejs_by_ryan_dahl.html
    > >http://vimeo.com/9968301

    >
    > I can't tell if this is simply intended as a joke.
    >
    > I was complaining about your posting a raw link to a video without
    > accompanying it with some text describing what the video is about.
    > Posting two more links to additional videos -- again with no
    > explanation -- just makes it worse.


    Sorry, now that you say it, yes, I realize that it looks very much
    like a -bad- joke. Sincerely, that wasn't my intention. The videos are
    2 other (previous) presentations of Node.js, by Ryan Dahl. It's been
    by watching the one @ jsconf.eu that I got aware of Node.js.
    --
    Jorge.
     
    Ry Nohryb, May 26, 2010
    #18
  19. Ry Nohryb

    Scott Sauyet Guest

    Ry Nohryb wrote:
    > On May 26, 4:36 pm, Scott Sauyet <> wrote:
    >> I can't tell if this is simply intended as a joke. [ ... ]

    >
    > Sorry, now that you say it, yes, I realize that it looks very much
    > like a -bad- joke. Sincerely, that wasn't my intention. The videos are
    > 2 other (previous) presentations of Node.js, by Ryan Dahl. It's been
    > by watching the one @ jsconf.eu that I got aware of Node.js.


    Thanks. Much better. :) And the rest of this thread has helped
    explain a little about what node.js actually is.

    --
    Scott
     
    Scott Sauyet, May 26, 2010
    #19
  20. Ry Nohryb

    Ry Nohryb Guest

    On May 26, 7:06 pm, Scott Sauyet <> wrote:
    >
    > Thanks.  Much better.  :)  And the rest of this thread has helped
    > explain a little about what node.js actually is.


    Certainly not TNO's posts. I think he's very very much disoriented wrt
    Node. Node is a tiny, lovely, and damn fast thing that you program in
    our much beloved JS. I'm using it now in every project. In some cases
    it's running 40 times faster than the Ruby tool it replaces... DAMN
    FAST :)
    --
    Jorge.
     
    Ry Nohryb, May 26, 2010
    #20
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