VS2005 IDE definately NOT worth using...

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Noozer, Mar 19, 2006.

  1. Noozer

    Noozer Guest

    ....so I'm looking for a better development environment.

    Currently, I'm a fairly green ASP programmer. Most of my databases have been
    MS Access, but I'm developing on MS SQL server. I'm hoping to learn PHP in
    the near future. Most of my scripting is done in VBScript, but I do employ
    Javascript as well.

    Most of my coding up until recently was simply done with Notepad and a
    browser open to Google for tags and script that I had issues with. I've
    never liked using WYSIWYG layout editors.

    What I'd like in an IDE is:
    - able to open and save using FTP to my web host
    - colour coded syntax
    - automatic listing of members
    - the ability to automatically apply attribute quotes and close tags
    - multiple documents open at one time
    - validate for specific browsers or HTML standards
    - no need for WYSIWYG layout editors
    - no complicated Source file control

    Am I hoping for too much, or is there actually something out there?
     
    Noozer, Mar 19, 2006
    #1
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  2. Noozer

    John Salerno Guest

    Noozer wrote:
    > ...so I'm looking for a better development environment.


    Are you serious? I haven't used the IDE for Web Developer much, but I
    imagine it's no different than the one for C#, which is flat-out
    amazing. What don't you like about it?
     
    John Salerno, Mar 19, 2006
    #2
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  3. Noozer

    Noozer Guest

    "John Salerno" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Noozer wrote:
    >> ...so I'm looking for a better development environment.

    >
    > Are you serious? I haven't used the IDE for Web Developer much, but I
    > imagine it's no different than the one for C#, which is flat-out amazing.
    > What don't you like about it?


    Trying to save a 20 line ASP file... Alt-S-> Click the dropdown to choose a
    folder....wait, wait, go turn on the kettle, wait... Literally 2+ minutes
    before I could do anything in VS.

    Having to have <@ lanugage="vbscript"> at the top of ALL my files to get the
    syntax coloring to work. Of course the line needs to be removed from all the
    files or the web server errors.

    Ever try to paste in the IDE? Copy some text from a webpage and paste it
    into your code - gets pretty mangled eh? No problem, just set the option to
    always paste as HTML. Hrm.. still having problems. Whenever I paste the new
    text is selected, meaning that as soon as I type, it erases what I just
    pasted. I also can't paste the same text over and over as it just keep
    replacing the newly pasted text.

    Then there is no simple way to create an ASP project, unless you want all
    the .Net baggage that goes with it.

    Then there's all the reformatting it does on it's own. I cut a line, then
    paste it right back to the same place and it changes the order of the tag
    attributes, adds line breaks, etc.

    ....I could go on, but I'm sure someone else would like a turn.
     
    Noozer, Mar 19, 2006
    #3
  4. Noozer

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Noozer wrote:

    > What I'd like in an IDE is:
    > - able to open and save using FTP to my web host
    > - colour coded syntax
    > - automatic listing of members
    > - the ability to automatically apply attribute quotes and close tags
    > - multiple documents open at one time
    > - validate for specific browsers or HTML standards
    > - no need for WYSIWYG layout editors
    > - no complicated Source file control


    Screem <http://www.screem.org/> can do pretty much all of this. It also
    has a built-in WYSIWYG *preview* (not *editor* -- uses either Gecko or
    GtkHTML to provide this preview), spelling checker, support for CVS as a
    version control system. It will properly read DTDs, so it can syntax
    highlight not just HTML, but also other XML/SGML files with DOCTYPEs.

    Screem is mostly developed for Linux/UNIX, but I imagine it could be made
    to run on Mac OS X and Windows, providing an X server is installed.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Mar 19, 2006
    #4
  5. Noozer

    John Salerno Guest

    Noozer wrote:
    > "John Salerno" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Noozer wrote:
    >>> ...so I'm looking for a better development environment.

    >> Are you serious? I haven't used the IDE for Web Developer much, but I
    >> imagine it's no different than the one for C#, which is flat-out amazing.
    >> What don't you like about it?

    >
    > Trying to save a 20 line ASP file... Alt-S-> Click the dropdown to choose a
    > folder....wait, wait, go turn on the kettle, wait... Literally 2+ minutes
    > before I could do anything in VS.
    >
    > Having to have <@ lanugage="vbscript"> at the top of ALL my files to get the
    > syntax coloring to work. Of course the line needs to be removed from all the
    > files or the web server errors.
    >
    > Ever try to paste in the IDE? Copy some text from a webpage and paste it
    > into your code - gets pretty mangled eh? No problem, just set the option to
    > always paste as HTML. Hrm.. still having problems. Whenever I paste the new
    > text is selected, meaning that as soon as I type, it erases what I just
    > pasted. I also can't paste the same text over and over as it just keep
    > replacing the newly pasted text.
    >
    > Then there is no simple way to create an ASP project, unless you want all
    > the .Net baggage that goes with it.
    >
    > Then there's all the reformatting it does on it's own. I cut a line, then
    > paste it right back to the same place and it changes the order of the tag
    > attributes, adds line breaks, etc.
    >
    > ...I could go on, but I'm sure someone else would like a turn.
    >
    >


    Well, like I said, I never used it much for ASP, just C#. I know there
    is a way to reformat your code to fit your options. The syntax
    highlighting problem is weird though. Maybe the IDE is different between
    the two after all.
     
    John Salerno, Mar 19, 2006
    #5
  6. Noozer

    Brian Cryer Guest

    "Noozer" <> wrote in message
    news:lA4Tf.159681$B94.145342@pd7tw3no...
    > ...so I'm looking for a better development environment.
    >
    > Currently, I'm a fairly green ASP programmer. Most of my databases have
    > been MS Access, but I'm developing on MS SQL server. I'm hoping to learn
    > PHP in the near future. Most of my scripting is done in VBScript, but I do
    > employ Javascript as well.
    >
    > Most of my coding up until recently was simply done with Notepad and a
    > browser open to Google for tags and script that I had issues with. I've
    > never liked using WYSIWYG layout editors.
    >
    > What I'd like in an IDE is:
    > - able to open and save using FTP to my web host
    > - colour coded syntax
    > - automatic listing of members
    > - the ability to automatically apply attribute quotes and close tags
    > - multiple documents open at one time
    > - validate for specific browsers or HTML standards
    > - no need for WYSIWYG layout editors
    > - no complicated Source file control
    >
    > Am I hoping for too much, or is there actually something out there?


    Personally I don't think ASP has a future. I would suggest either you
    migrate to .NET (its brilliant) or PHP (not quite so quick to develop with
    but unlike .Net it doesn't constrain you to needing IIS hosting).

    I must admit I've not used the 2005 IDE, I'm still using the 2003 version.
    If its anything like the previous version then it is superb at developing
    ..Net applications, but doesn't really support ASP. For that you would be
    better of looking at an old version of Visual-InterDev on ebay.

    For PHP I've been using PHPEdit, not bad but you get what you pay for. (Its
    cheap but not free although does come with a 30 day evaluation period.)
    --
    Brian Cryer
    www.cryer.co.uk/brian
     
    Brian Cryer, Mar 20, 2006
    #6
  7. Noozer

    SpaceGirl Guest

    Noozer wrote:
    > ...so I'm looking for a better development environment.
    >
    > Currently, I'm a fairly green ASP programmer. Most of my databases have been
    > MS Access, but I'm developing on MS SQL server. I'm hoping to learn PHP in
    > the near future. Most of my scripting is done in VBScript, but I do employ
    > Javascript as well.
    >
    > Most of my coding up until recently was simply done with Notepad and a
    > browser open to Google for tags and script that I had issues with. I've
    > never liked using WYSIWYG layout editors.
    >
    > What I'd like in an IDE is:
    > - able to open and save using FTP to my web host
    > - colour coded syntax
    > - automatic listing of members
    > - the ability to automatically apply attribute quotes and close tags
    > - multiple documents open at one time
    > - validate for specific browsers or HTML standards
    > - no need for WYSIWYG layout editors
    > - no complicated Source file control
    >
    > Am I hoping for too much, or is there actually something out there?


    DreamWeaver 8 does all of this and more.
     
    SpaceGirl, Mar 20, 2006
    #7
  8. Noozer

    Guest

    > I'm looking for a better development environment.

    Take a look at the Zeus for Windows IDE:

    http://www.zeusedit.com/features.html
    Note: Zeus is shareware (45 day trial).

    > What I'd like in an IDE is:
    > - able to open and save using FTP to my web host


    Zeus offers seamless ftp/sftp editing.

    > - colour coded syntax

    The syntax highlighting is fully configurable and
    comes predefined for HTML and javascript.

    > - the ability to automatically apply attribute quotes
    > and close tags


    Zeus is fully scriptable so you can probably write a
    macro to do something like this.

    > - multiple documents open at one time


    Zeus has no limit (other than PC RAM) on the number
    of open files.

    > - validate for specific browsers or HTML standards


    It can even check you HTML for W3C conformance using
    the Tidy HTML utility:

    http://www.zeusedit.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=194

    > - no need for WYSIWYG layout editors


    Zeus is a text editor/IDE.

    Jussi Jumppanen
    Author: Zeus for Windows
     
    , Mar 23, 2006
    #8
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