Web design program recommendation wanted for schools

Discussion in 'HTML' started by jzkilmer@yahoo.com, May 3, 2006.

  1. Guest

    I am thinking of buying Dreamweaver for web design on our schools'
    website, but the cost is rediculous considering how many copies I want.
    (even at educational pricing)

    As webmaster and volunteer parent, I would need a copy to manage the
    main web pages. Teachers and their students would also need copies for
    web design of their pages. It would be nice if they could do on their
    PC in their rooms. As you know, the schools are in financial straights
    and cannot afford several copies of DW even though that would be my
    first choice.

    What other software can you recommend. Our goal is NOT to teach grade
    school kids or their teachers HTML but to allow them to design and
    create a webpage for their class. (Afterall, many 1st graders can't
    even spell HTML, let alone write it.) It needs to be easy to use or I
    will not have success getting the teachers to use it.

    Thanks
    Jack
    , May 3, 2006
    #1
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  2. Ed Mullen Guest

    wrote:
    > I am thinking of buying Dreamweaver for web design on our schools'
    > website, but the cost is rediculous considering how many copies I want.
    > (even at educational pricing)
    >
    > As webmaster and volunteer parent, I would need a copy to manage the
    > main web pages. Teachers and their students would also need copies for
    > web design of their pages. It would be nice if they could do on their
    > PC in their rooms. As you know, the schools are in financial straights
    > and cannot afford several copies of DW even though that would be my
    > first choice.
    >
    > What other software can you recommend. Our goal is NOT to teach grade
    > school kids or their teachers HTML but to allow them to design and
    > create a webpage for their class. (Afterall, many 1st graders can't
    > even spell HTML, let alone write it.) It needs to be easy to use or I
    > will not have success getting the teachers to use it.
    >
    > Thanks
    > Jack
    >


    You might try Nvu. See http://nvu.com/

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    http://abington.edmullen.net
    Why does a cowboy have two spurs? If one side of the horse goes, so does
    the other.
    Ed Mullen, May 3, 2006
    #2
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  3. Neredbojias Guest

    To further the education of mankind, vouchsafed:

    > I am thinking of buying Dreamweaver for web design on our schools'
    > website, but the cost is rediculous considering how many copies I want.
    > (even at educational pricing)
    >
    > As webmaster and volunteer parent, I would need a copy to manage the
    > main web pages. Teachers and their students would also need copies for
    > web design of their pages. It would be nice if they could do on their
    > PC in their rooms. As you know, the schools are in financial straights
    > and cannot afford several copies of DW even though that would be my
    > first choice.
    >
    > What other software can you recommend. Our goal is NOT to teach grade
    > school kids or their teachers HTML but to allow them to design and
    > create a webpage for their class. (Afterall, many 1st graders can't
    > even spell HTML, let alone write it.) It needs to be easy to use or I
    > will not have success getting the teachers to use it.


    Forget the html. Do the graphic design separate, however you want to, and
    when it's complete, hire/procure someone to mark it up. WYSIWYG editors
    aren't very html-adept in any case.

    --
    Neredbojias
    Infinity has its limits.
    Neredbojias, May 3, 2006
    #3
  4. Chaddy2222 Guest

    Ed Mullen wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > I am thinking of buying Dreamweaver for web design on our schools'
    > > website, but the cost is rediculous considering how many copies I want.
    > > (even at educational pricing)
    > >
    > > As webmaster and volunteer parent, I would need a copy to manage the
    > > main web pages. Teachers and their students would also need copies for
    > > web design of their pages. It would be nice if they could do on their
    > > PC in their rooms. As you know, the schools are in financial straights
    > > and cannot afford several copies of DW even though that would be my
    > > first choice.
    > >
    > > What other software can you recommend. Our goal is NOT to teach grade
    > > school kids or their teachers HTML but to allow them to design and
    > > create a webpage for their class. (Afterall, many 1st graders can't
    > > even spell HTML, let alone write it.) It needs to be easy to use or I
    > > will not have success getting the teachers to use it.
    > >
    > > Thanks
    > > Jack
    > >

    >
    > You might try Nvu. See http://nvu.com/

    Yes, I think NVU would be good, though you still will need some
    knoledge about HTML so the pages validate.
    I would suggest installing a CMS and just letting teachers and students
    add content.
    Much easyer and it would allow for consistency over all pages.
    --
    Regards Chad. My site made with NVU, http://freewebdesign.cjb.cc

    > Why does a cowboy have two spurs? If one side of the horse goes, so does
    > the other.
    Chaddy2222, May 4, 2006
    #4
  5. JDS Guest

    On Wed, 03 May 2006 13:09:11 -0700, jzkilmer wrote:

    > As you know, the schools are in financial straights
    > and cannot afford several copies of DW even though that would be my
    > first choice.


    Why would that be your first choice? First graders using Dreamweaver? DW
    Is actually quite a complex program.

    Try Mozilla Composer. It is FREE. It is a part of the Mozilla suite. I'm
    talking the full version of Mozilla, not "Firefox". It is really a pretty
    good WYSIWYG HTML editor -- I don't know why it isn't recommended more
    often!

    http://www.mozilla.org/products/mozilla1.x/
    --
    JDS | lid
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/
    JDS, May 4, 2006
    #5
  6. JDS Guest

    On Thu, 04 May 2006 09:45:05 -0400, JDS wrote:

    > It is really a pretty
    > good WYSIWYG HTML editor -- I don't know why it isn't recommended more
    > often!
    >
    > http://www.mozilla.org/products/mozilla1.x/


    Yeah, I just took a look at it again. I think it would be perfect for
    your uses: it is easy to use, WYSIWYG interface, lets you edit the HTML
    directly if you want, features publishing/uploading tools to send your
    site/pages to your web server, works on Windows, Mac, Linux, has a
    spell checker, and more. wow I sound like a sales brochure.

    --
    JDS | lid
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/
    JDS, May 4, 2006
    #6
  7. JDS wrote:

    > Try Mozilla Composer. It is FREE. It is a part of the Mozilla suite. I'm
    > talking the full version of Mozilla, not "Firefox". It is really a pretty
    > good WYSIWYG HTML editor -- I don't know why it isn't recommended more
    > often!


    ...and NVu as already mentioned is the stand-alone version of the Mozilla
    Composer. NVu might be more beneficial, if the OP does not want to have
    email and chat applications on the kids' computers.

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, May 4, 2006
    #7
  8. Ed Mullen Guest

    JDS wrote:
    > On Wed, 03 May 2006 13:09:11 -0700, jzkilmer wrote:
    >
    >> As you know, the schools are in financial straights
    >> and cannot afford several copies of DW even though that would be my
    >> first choice.

    >
    > Why would that be your first choice? First graders using Dreamweaver? DW
    > Is actually quite a complex program.
    >
    > Try Mozilla Composer. It is FREE. It is a part of the Mozilla suite. I'm
    > talking the full version of Mozilla, not "Firefox". It is really a pretty
    > good WYSIWYG HTML editor -- I don't know why it isn't recommended more
    > often!
    >
    > http://www.mozilla.org/products/mozilla1.x/


    Instead of the Mozilla Suite anyone interested should get SeaMonkey.
    Mozilla.org has stopped development of the Moz Suite except for a few
    more security fixes. An independent group is carrying on the suite
    development in the form of SeaMonkey.

    Also, the composer that is part of both Mozilla and SeaMonkey hasn't
    been updated in ages. The key developer of Composer is also the
    developer of Nvu, which is current and more advanced.

    http://mozilla.edmullen.net/seamonkey.html

    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    http://abington.edmullen.net
    Is there another word for synonym?
    Ed Mullen, May 4, 2006
    #8
  9. "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <> wrote in message
    news:2Eo6g.25437$...
    > JDS wrote:
    >
    >> Try Mozilla Composer. It is FREE. It is a part of the Mozilla suite. I'm
    >> talking the full version of Mozilla, not "Firefox". It is really a
    >> pretty
    >> good WYSIWYG HTML editor -- I don't know why it isn't recommended more
    >> often!

    >
    > ..and NVu as already mentioned is the stand-alone version of the Mozilla
    > Composer. NVu might be more beneficial, if the OP does not want to have
    > email and chat applications on the kids' computers.


    I'd go with Composer first. It's more stable. NVu tends to crap out when
    dealing with layers. Also, it has a well known bug that re-formats the code
    even if you disable the option. (Might not matter in this instance.)

    The old Frontpage Express is still available and is dead easy. It uses a
    word processor metaphor. The generated code is out of date but for Grade 1
    it doesn't get any easier.

    I haven't played around with Open Office much but it also functions as a
    wysiwyg editor. However, you have to download the whole office suite which I
    think is over 60 Megs.

    Also, Abiword for very simple stuff.

    Finally, most commercial word processors (Word, WordPerfect) etc can save to
    HTML. It ain't pretty HTML but will work. You probably already have access
    to some of these programs now. If valid / efficient code is a concern there
    are freeware "cleaners" that will clean up Word-to-HTML files afterwards.

    You could also the alt.comp.freeware ng for more suggestions.

    NVu: http://www.nvu.com/
    Composer (Seamonkey) : http://www.mozilla.org/projects/seamonkey/ (Less
    stable than Mozila version but still works well.)
    Composer (Older Mozilla version) :
    http://www.mozilla.org/products/mozilla1.x/
    Frontpage Express : You'll have to Google around to find downloads or get an
    old copy of Internet Explorer 5.
    Open Office : http://www.openoffice.org/
    Abiword : http://www.abisource.com/

    M
    Michael Laplante, May 4, 2006
    #9
  10. JDS Guest

    On Thu, 04 May 2006 15:59:33 +0000, Michael Laplante wrote:

    > Finally, most commercial word processors (Word, WordPerfect) etc can save to
    > HTML. It ain't pretty HTML but will work. You probably already have access
    > to some of these programs now. If valid / efficient code is a concern there
    > are freeware "cleaners" that will clean up Word-to-HTML files afterwards.


    You are hereby banned from alt.html

    BEGONE!

    --
    JDS | lid
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/
    JDS, May 4, 2006
    #10
  11. JDS Guest

    JDS, May 4, 2006
    #11
  12. Guest

    Okay. Now that I have read some posts I will clarify my needs further.
    No chats and messaging allowed. School District has all kinds of
    restrictions and this is one of them. Firewalls abound, no doubt but
    still...

    As webmaster I will be using Dreamweaver (DW) and doing all final
    editing prior to uploading on District's server. District webmaster has
    requested Front Page NOT be used as sites often do not work well on
    their server. (I would assume this also applies to Office HTML
    documents as well.) She suggested DW. Can I upload sites created in NVU
    or other such programs into DW?

    BTW, any good, cheap pdf editors out there or are we back to the Adobe
    suite?

    So, which is best for simple web design that will be uploaded into DW
    and have a final edit? NVU, SeaMonkey, or Composer? Which is it that is
    the most up-to-date and still being maintained/developed again?

    Thanks
    , May 4, 2006
    #12
  13. JDS Guest

    On Thu, 04 May 2006 12:12:22 -0700, jzkilmer wrote:

    > As webmaster I will be using Dreamweaver (DW) and doing all final
    > editing prior to uploading on District's server. District webmaster has
    > requested Front Page NOT be used as sites often do not work well on
    > their server. (I would assume this also applies to Office HTML
    > documents as well.) She suggested DW. Can I upload sites created in NVU
    > or other such programs into DW?


    As webmaster, you are probably better off using Nvu/Composer also. That
    way you will be using the same tools as the students. Nvu/Composer has
    upload tools much like DW's. Not sure what you mean by "upload *into* DW",
    unless you mean the site mangement tools that DW provides, and to that I
    don't know the answer for sure, but I think it is "yes".

    Really, though, uploading a bunch of pages is not that hard. You don't
    really need DW just to do that.

    Also, what was that about "No chats and messaging allowed"? What are you
    talking about?

    And finally, PDF: OpenOffice outputs very good PDFs. It does NOT, however,
    allow you to edit a PDF once it is generated. I think you are stuck with
    Acrobat for that. But OpenOffice *is* free, and is a pretty good office
    suite, and generates pretty good PDFs *VERY* easily.

    --
    JDS | lid
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/
    JDS, May 4, 2006
    #13
  14. wrote:

    > No chats and messaging allowed. School District has all kinds of
    > restrictions and this is one of them.


    As mentioned, no Chat and messaging eliminates Mozilla and SeaMonkey.
    They are suites containing applets for those tools (along with email).

    > So, which is best for simple web design that will be uploaded into DW
    > and have a final edit? NVU, SeaMonkey, or Composer?


    Nvu is the stand-alone "Composer" application, and should do quite well
    for your young students. And for yourself. DreamWeaver is overkill.

    http://nvu.com/

    If you don't want to use its internal server uploading, get FileZilla,
    also free and easy to use.

    http://filezilla.sourceforge.net/

    > Which is it that is the most up-to-date and still being
    > maintained/developed again?


    http://nvu.com/

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, May 4, 2006
    #14
  15. Ed Mullen Guest

    Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    > wrote:
    >
    >> No chats and messaging allowed. School District has all kinds of
    >> restrictions and this is one of them.

    >
    > As mentioned, no Chat and messaging eliminates Mozilla and SeaMonkey.
    > They are suites containing applets for those tools (along with email).


    Not so. Both Moz Suite and SeaMonkey allow custom installation and you
    can choose to not install the Chatzilla component.


    --
    Ed Mullen
    http://edmullen.net
    http://mozilla.edmullen.net
    http://abington.edmullen.net
    Oooo, baby, it's a big old goofy world. - John Prine
    Ed Mullen, May 4, 2006
    #15
  16. Guest

    I know DW is a bit overkill, but I am designing the bulk of the schools
    official website. I am just adding the students' webpages to it, should
    they want to do one. Does anyone know if my old DW4.0 files will load
    into the DW that comes with Studio 8? (I own DW 4.0, the school is
    getting DW 8) I assume so, but you know what they say, Assuming can
    make an ASS out of U and ME. (hardy har har. Got that from and old "Odd
    Couple" episode. Geez am I an old f**t or what?)
    , May 4, 2006
    #16
  17. Ed Mullen wrote:

    > Beauregard T. Shagnasty wrote:
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> No chats and messaging allowed. School District has all kinds of
    >>> restrictions and this is one of them.

    >>
    >> As mentioned, no Chat and messaging eliminates Mozilla and
    >> SeaMonkey. They are suites containing applets for those tools (along
    >> with email).

    >
    > Not so. Both Moz Suite and SeaMonkey allow custom installation and
    > you can choose to not install the Chatzilla component.


    Well, I know that, but who new to them would even think about it. ;-)

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, May 4, 2006
    #17
  18. JDS Guest

    On Thu, 04 May 2006 13:51:25 -0700, jzkilmer wrote:

    > make an ASS out of U and ME. (hardy har har. Got that from and old "Odd
    > Couple" episode. Geez am I an old f**t or what?)


    I remember that episode!

    In any case, all the files are going to be HTML. I can't imagine why DW
    can't integrate a few etra HTML pages into its concept of "the site"

    --
    JDS |
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/
    JDS, May 5, 2006
    #18
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