Web service on VMS

[Mr. X.]

Hello.
I want to use web-service on VMS.
I know that Java is a good solution (I think it's version 1.5).
Also I am using Basic in most of my code.

I need a full example code of Java using Web-service (on VMS),
that can be used by VMS-Basic code, please.
(Even 3rd-party program is good).

Thanks

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Hello.
I want to use web-service on VMS.
I know that Java is a good solution (I think it's version 1.5).
Also I am using Basic in most of my code.

I need a full example code of Java using Web-service (on VMS),
that can be used by VMS-Basic code, please.

I think you want:
http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/products/ips/wsit/

Arne

 

[Jeffrey H. Coffield]

Hello.
I want to use web-service on VMS.
I know that Java is a good solution (I think it's version 1.5).
Also I am using Basic in most of my code.

I need a full example code of Java using Web-service (on VMS),
that can be used by VMS-Basic code, please.
(Even 3rd-party program is good).

Thanks

We have implemented a variety of solutions to connect OpenVMS to Java
and web applications for our customers over the last 10 years. There are
many approaches depending on how your current system is implemented and
where you want to go.

We currently support customers with all Cobol, all Basic and various
mixtures. Please call me at (949) 650-0526 (weekends okay) if you would
like to discuss possible solutions.

Jeff Coffield
www.digitalsynergyinc.com

 

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Hello.
I want to use web-service on VMS.

VMS as a WS-server or as a WS-client ?
"On VMS" doesn't tell that.

I know that Java is a good solution

IMHO, Java is most of the time a bad solution.
In particular on VMS.

(I think it's version 1.5).
Also I am using Basic in most of my code.

Are we talking of the VMS systems here ?
Or some other system ?

I need a full example code of Java using Web-service (on VMS),
that can be used by VMS-Basic code, please.

Again, using the VMS systems as a WS server or client ?

 

[Lew]

IMHO, Java is most of the time a bad solution.

Crap.

 

[Jan-Erik Söderholm]

Crap.

Since this wasn't only posted to COMP.OS.VMS...
Are you familiar with Java on OpenVMS (VMS) ?

 

[Lew]

Since this wasn't only posted to COMP.OS.VMS...
Are you familiar with Java on OpenVMS (VMS) ?

No, but the statement "Java is most of the time a bad solution" is more
general. I can imagine it might be a bad solution on OpenVMS, although you
didn't support that claim, but to say that it's a bad solution "most of the
time" is ridiculous. Even when there are better solutions, Java is often a
good solution.

 

[Mark Daniel]

No, but the statement "Java is most of the time a bad solution" is more
general. I can imagine it might be a bad solution on OpenVMS, although
you didn't support that claim, but to say that it's a bad solution "most
of the time" is ridiculous. Even when there are better solutions, Java
is often a good solution.

You'll have to excuse us Lew. c.o.v. tends to be a bit ingrown (present
company excepted of course) and forget that those in cross-postings more
often don't share our own particular weltanschauung

 

[Lew]

You'll have to excuse us Lew. c.o.v. tends to be a bit ingrown (present
company excepted of course) and forget that those in cross-postings more
often don't share our own particular weltanschauung

Well, I clearly don't share your Wiener Schnitzel, so could someone explain
why OpenVMSers excoriate Java, which is most of the time a great solution?

 

[Mark Daniel]

Well, I clearly don't share your Wiener Schnitzel, so could someone
explain why OpenVMSers excoriate Java, which is most of the time a great
solution?

Gentlec.o.v.ers, here's your chance.

(Though it may turn out to be a two-edged sword.)

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Well, I clearly don't share your Wiener Schnitzel, so could someone
explain why OpenVMSers excoriate Java,

Not all OpenVMS'ers does that.

Arne

 

[Jeffrey H. Coffield]

Well, I clearly don't share your Wiener Schnitzel, so could someone
explain why OpenVMSers excoriate Java, which is most of the time a great
solution?

I for one (and my company) use Java where it makes sense - on the
desktop as a client where it provides a substantial improvement in the
user interface. I have had Java programs for almost 10 years connecting
to OpenVMS systems and have found the Java programs to be very reliable
and maintainable.

I don't use Java on the OpenVMS (server) side for many reasons. It
doesn't naturally integrate with existing OpenVMS applications. It can't
connect directly to the OpenVMS database called RMS. It takes a large
amount of memory and is generally a lot slower. We in general have the
Java client connect to an OpenVMS server written in Basic.

To me it's using the right tool for the right job.

Jeff Coffield
www.digitalsynergyinc.com

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I for one (and my company) use Java where it makes sense - on the
desktop as a client where it provides a substantial improvement in the
user interface. I have had Java programs for almost 10 years connecting
to OpenVMS systems and have found the Java programs to be very reliable
and maintainable.

I don't use Java on the OpenVMS (server) side for many reasons.

Which is rather unusual - Java today is almost entirely server side.

It
doesn't naturally integrate with existing OpenVMS applications. It can't
connect directly to the OpenVMS database called RMS.

RMS index-sequential files is not particular Java friendly.

Digital/Compaq/HP never did provide an API for that.

It is of course possible to write something yourself using JNI, but
that is not so attractive.

It takes a large
amount of memory and is generally a lot slower.

A Java server program should run fine in a few hundred dollars worth
of RAM in an Integrity server. And about as fast as programs written
in any other language.

If it is a 10 or 15 year old small server maxed out with memory,
then latest and greatest Java everything will most likely not
run very well.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

Ten years is about three lifetimes in computer years. A ten year old
server may very well provide acceptable performance while running ten
year old software. Most people are not satisfied with ten year old
software! They want all the latest features and fixes.

That is the norm in large parts of the IT world.

Gilbert's Law states: "If you build or buy a faster computer, someone
will write slower software to run on it!"

Yep.

Arne

 

[JF Mezei]

Ten years is about three lifetimes in computer years. A ten year old
server may very well provide acceptable performance while running ten
year old software.

If you have a 1.5ghz server, and your "legacy" code requires only
500mhz, then you can afford to move to java because you have spare
CPU/memory capacity. In an era where companies changed their servers as
often as people changed their cars, you would get a new powerful server
before you ran out of capacity.

But if you have high volume application that is maxing out your
mainframe and system upgrades are very expensive, you want to use an
efficient software so that you can keep your mainframe as long as
possible before you need to upgrade.

 

[Jeffrey H. Coffield]

RMS index-sequential files is not particular Java friendly.

The funny thing about Java is that I find RMS file structures much more
compatible with Java than any relational database. Java wants
polymorphism. Relational databases can't handle different objects in
the same table. RMS does it easily with record overlays.

Digital/Compaq/HP never did provide an API for that.

I assume you mean an RMS API for Java.

It is of course possible to write something yourself using JNI, but
that is not so attractive.

JNI is not necessary. It is quite straightforward to use a TCIP/IP
connection to move data between Java on any platform and OpenVMS.

Jeff Coffield

 

[Jeffrey H. Coffield]

Ten years is about three lifetimes in computer years. A ten year old
server may very well provide acceptable performance while running ten
year old software. Most people are not satisfied with ten year old
software! They want all the latest features and fixes.

If ten years is three lifetimes, then I program cats with 9 lives (so far).

One of the applications I support I wrote on a PDP-11/70 almost 30 years
ago. Today it has both Java/Swing and HTML interfaces as well as the
traditional VT screen and runs on an OpenVMS cluster. They have all the
features and fixes.

Jeff Coffield

 

[Neil Rieck]

Hello.
I want to use web-service on VMS.
I know that Java is a good solution (I think it's version 1.5).
Also I am using Basic in most of my code.

I need a full example code of Java using Web-service (on VMS),
that can be used by VMS-Basic code, please.
(Even 3rd-party program is good).

Thanks

I have used various web servers on OpenVMS but am currently using HP's
SWS which is based upon Apache (67% of all web servers in the world
employ Apache).

I wouldn't bother with Java unless you require your system to
autonomously communicate with a similar web service on another system.
(or want to use third party XML plug-ins or support WSDL, etc.)

Once SWS is set up, I have found it relatively easy to rewrite HP
BASIC apps to interface with a web browser rather than a VT series
character cell terminal. My free demo apps can be found at the
following URLs

Neil Rieck
Kitchener/Waterloo/Cambridge,
Ontario, Canada.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/links/openvms_demos.html
http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/openvms_notes_apache.html

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

I have used various web servers on OpenVMS but am currently using HP's
SWS which is based upon Apache (67% of all web servers in the world
employ Apache).

As of April 2009 the number is 45.95%.

(custom solutions like google and qqhttp has taken large shares
from Apache)

I wouldn't bother with Java unless you require your system to
autonomously communicate with a similar web service on another system.
(or want to use third party XML plug-ins or support WSDL, etc.)

That is a frequent requirement.

Once SWS is set up, I have found it relatively easy to rewrite HP
BASIC apps to interface with a web browser rather than a VT series
character cell terminal. My free demo apps can be found at the
following URLs

Web service and web apps are really two different things.

Arne

 

[Arne Vajhøj]

>
The funny thing about Java is that I find RMS file structures much more
compatible with Java than any relational database. Java wants
polymorphism. Relational databases can't handle different objects in
the same table. RMS does it easily with record overlays.

Interesting point.

I assume you mean an RMS API for Java.

A mean an API for accessing RMS index-sequential files.

JNI is not necessary. It is quite straightforward to use a TCIP/IP
connection to move data between Java on any platform and OpenVMS.

The JNI solution is not needed for client Java - it would be needed
for server Java.

Arne