WebOS Project seeking for developers

R

rf

Rorist said:

Simply out of interest I had a look at this.

Sucks.

Slow, probably because of those "framework" things in use.

Full of errors. Hint: Enlarge the font size in your browser. Watch the whole
thing fall apart.

It's in some foreign language. Don't you at least offer me a choice.

Bit question: Why would I need this?
 
D

David Mark

Simply out of interest I had a look at this.

Sucks.

No question. It's a foolish attempt to create an OS-like GUI (just
what the world needs.) It doesn't look any more impressive than one I
saw ten years ago (that is to say not at all.)
Slow, probably because of those "framework" things in use.

Yes, unusable. That was predictable.
Full of errors. Hint: Enlarge the font size in your browser. Watch the whole
thing fall apart.

Didn't look that hot with FF3's default font size either.
It's in some foreign language. Don't you at least offer me a choice.

Bit question: Why would I need this?

Nobody would.
 
R

Rorist

Slow, probably because of those "framework" things in use.
Any part in particular that is slow ? the loading process or the usage
of the desktop ?
Full of errors. Hint: Enlarge the font size in your browser. Watch the whole
thing fall apart.
Using FF3, enlarging the font may cause problem with windows sizes, is
that what you meant ?
It's in some foreign language. Don't you at least offer me a choice.
It's planned to make a translation module, but as a base it's english
based yes. At start it was all in French though.
Bit question: Why would I need this?
It's a concept (an old concept as Mark said). It is not intented to be
used, but maybe to have fun with it. Some tools may be usefull though,
like the decoder.

Thanks for the look.
 
S

SAM

Le 12/22/08 4:03 PM, David Mark a écrit :
I didn't see it was so slow.
Yes, unusable. That was predictable.


Didn't look that hot with FF3's default font size either.

I've tried and even if it can improve, it's very bearable
(FF + Mac or Safari)
Nobody would.

Certainly, but ...
I think Rorist begins to understand this point.
(sic)I'm on a project of "yet another WebOS on the market"(/sic)
^^^^^^^^^^^
And then ?
 
D

David Mark

Le 12/22/08 4:03 PM, David Mark a écrit :


I didn't see it was so slow.

Relatively speaking, it is. The fact that it uses MooTools tells you
that it can never be any faster than what MooTools can muster.
I've tried and even if it can improve, it's very bearable
(FF + Mac or Safari)

I saw menu icons overlapping text in FF3/Win. There's no telling what
one might see on another OS (or another configuration of Windows.)
Clearly there is at least one bad assumption in either the code or the
style sheets.

[snip]
 
S

SAM

Le 12/22/08 6:35 PM, Rorist a écrit :

SVP : laisse le nom ou pseudo de l'intervenant auquel tu réponds.

To who do you answer ?
Using FF3, enlarging the font may cause problem with windows sizes, is
that what you meant ?

Mon pôvre, non pas seulement :
- Icones cover theirs sisters
- "Menu" cut by its frame
- and so on
Try disabling the enlarging "text and image" in your FF.3 if you use
this browser.
It's planned to make a translation module, but as a base it's english
based yes. At start it was all in French though.

Please leave a blank line between your text and the quoted one.
SVP essaie de mettre une ligne vide entre les intervenants (toi y compris)
 
J

jhuni

I'm not a years developer (23 yo) but I never saw that, interesting,
but imao less human readable than NaturalDocs. Thanks anyway.

Okay I meant to say that is what I a lot of developers see all the
time. Anyways you clearly have never used Perl because it is used in
every single Perl module. Anyways I have never heard of this natural
docs thing so clearly we are both uh confused. Anyways I use JSAN
which uses POD ( the server for uploading to JSAN is dead BTW, but it
is still a good library just a bad repository )
http://planet.openjsan.org/doc/c/cw/cwest/JSAN/0.10/lib/JSAN.html
Anyways I just use JSAN.use("Widget.Dialog") for modules. If say you
decided to move to a JSAN package management system then we could
start to work on integrating our seperate modules. The real advantage
to JSAN is that you are only loading all your dependencies for an app
on the fly and before I added it my OS was slow.
Everything is kernel/lib is part of the core yes. For example, the
menu uses os.menu, wich depends on os.widget. The taskbar will soon be
a widget too, so we can add more taskbar, move them, etc.


What do you mean part of the core? What is the distinction between a
widget and "part of the core"? A core dependency or dependent on the
core? Take for example:
http://www.openjsan.org/doc/e/ed/edoardo/Widget/Tooltip/0.02/lib/Widget/Tooltip.html

If you look at the link you notice that the documentation has the
common POD format, so right away I understand what is going on. It
describes itself, where it has been tested, and all the important
public methods. It tells me that "Edoardo Sabadelli" wrote it and that
in this case if you put it in your widget/ directory that you did not
write it yourself. Then it also describes its license terms. Another
thing is it has private methods, you seem to not use them ever?

The most important thing I think is the synopsis you tell the user how
to handle the dependencies <script src="some dependency"> if you have
dependencies and then you can give an example of the code in action.

Clearly from that you realize if I am making my own operating system I
can use Widget.Tooltip and if you are making your operating system you
can also use it because it doesn't have a dependency on any platform,
it is modular. In my operating system you can take Widget.Dialog and
use it in any everyday application that has nothing to do with the OS.
Can you take your
widgets an use them standalone?
Another fix to come are windows, actually there is object model for
windows, there are only methods in the core (os) to create window
(createWindow, removeWindow), that have to be changed too.

Well I think you should work on seperating Windows into a
Widget.Takos.Dialog module or similar and this way you make it so that
you just can use somebody elses window system. And you can make it so
that if I do:

<script type="text/javascript" src="./Widget/Takos/Dialog.js"></
script>
<script type="text/javascript">
<!--

(function(){

var Widg = Widget.Takos;
new Widg.Dialog({
pid: 12374, // (process id)
x: 100,
y: 100,
width: 250,
height: 250,
innerHTML: function(container) {
container.innerHTML = "Alert! This is my first Dialog.";
}
});

});

//-->
</script>

That should run standalone. And it should say so in =head1 SYNOPSIS in
your docs. You should make a folder like ./Widget/ and then your own
Widgets are ./Widget/Takos and you can go and download other widgets
like Widget.Tooltip. (It is a good module). Why reinvent the wheel?
Anyways do you have a distinction between applications and widgets
yet?
 
S

SAM

Le 12/22/08 8:23 PM, David Mark a écrit :
Relatively speaking, it is. The fact that it uses MooTools tells you
that it can never be any faster than what MooTools can muster.

I think you'ren't wrong. ;-)
Do you really think it could be possible to get very faster reactions ?
And how ? (and perhaps : why ?)
I tried to look MooTools script and I've been quite rapidly lost.

The sniffing of browser was not very evident to me.
(overall from the point I don't too much what they expect to do with)
I saw menu icons overlapping text in FF3/Win. There's no telling what
one might see on another OS (or another configuration of Windows.)

Yes I did too. But as I said it was not so insupportable.
(I don't play all the times with Finder's icones or with its fonts, and
if I do, it isn't in unacceptable proportions)
Clearly there is at least one bad assumption in either the code or the
style sheets.

I agree but it's a minor adaptation to plan in regard of all the rest
already made.

Why do you finish by [snip] ?
We well see there is nothing more, no?
 
D

David Mark

Le 12/22/08 8:23 PM, David Mark a écrit :



I think you'ren't wrong. ;-)
Do you really think it could be possible to get very faster reactions ?
Yes.

And how ?  (and perhaps : why ?)

By not using inefficient code. And why not?
I tried to look MooTools script and I've been quite rapidly lost.

Then take my word for it. It stinks.
The sniffing of browser was not very evident to me.

It uses object inferences to sniff engines. It is no less ridiculous
than user agent based browser sniffing. In practice, multiple object
inferences can be effective, but are rarely necessary. The inferences
made by MooTools are ludicrous.
(overall from the point I don't too much what they expect to do with)
?



Yes I did too. But as I said it was not so insupportable.

I couldn't read the menu items as a result.
(I don't play all the times with Finder's icones or with its fonts, and
if I do, it isn't in unacceptable proportions)
Huh?

[snip]


Why do you finish by [snip] ?
We well see there is nothing more, no?

It indicates that there *was* something there. Some times it isn't
needed (like this one.)
 
K

Kenny

Rorist said:
I was assuming the public domain doesn't require any credits, and that
was simplier.

No, in the US at least by default you have a copyright.

Meanwhile, if you are having fun just go ahead and do not worry about
everything you hear from certain naysayers around here (which it seems
you have already figured out).

btw, if you ever get tired of Mootools take a look at qooxdoo. I am
having great luck with it, and the OO extensions especially might make
your (guessing) large amount of code more manageable.

kt
 
S

SAM

Le 12/22/08 10:37 PM, David Mark a écrit :
By not using inefficient code. And why not?

I would have preferred : "By using efficient code" and "suh as ..."
.... never I will know.

Why not ?
I saw the "windows" bouncing on their expansions without delay and
belting back well enough fast for me.
A relative slow could be a design ?
Perhaps have I a too good processor in my iMac ?
Then take my word for it. It stinks.

Is that really interesting (to stay there) ?
Hu ? your word stinks ? Is that what you mean ?
It uses object inferences to sniff engines. It is no less ridiculous
than user agent based browser sniffing. In practice, multiple object
inferences can be effective, but are rarely necessary. The inferences
made by MooTools are ludicrous.


?

The tortuous detections doesn't help me to see in advance what they want
to do why them then.
(why IE or Opera and in what circumstances)
(arriving three screens latter on the feature for what the detection was
made I've forgotten what could be this foo)(I do not understand how they
can maintain their code)
I couldn't read the menu items as a result.

Except if Rorist rearranged his css, I can get the sub-menus (even if
they are ugly and if something could be done)

Je ne bricole pas le bureau de mon ordi à tous bouts de champ.
tts, in literal translation :
I do not tinker my office computer to all ends of the field.
or :
I do not play with the desktop of my PC all long the day.
Once it is fixed it's OK.
(anyways I do not see it so it is covered by windows never closed)
Why do you finish by [snip] ?
We well see there is nothing more, no?

It indicates that there *was* something there. Some times it isn't
needed (like this one.)

:)

I answer the points I want without indicate snipping, sens of sentences
can most of the time indicate that we talk of something else.
The snip is there only to tell next line it's the same subject further
down, jumping quibbling irrelevant. No?
 
R

Rorist

The real advantage to JSAN is that you are only loading all your dependencies for an app
on the fly and before I added it my OS was slow.

Real interesting library, I'm not sure I will directly use it, but
I'll take the structure and make more distinction between the parts of
my project.

What do you mean part of the core? What is the distinction between a
widget and "part of the core"? A core dependency or dependent on the
core?

In TakOS, widget depends on the core, menu depends on widget, and the
core depends on menu, because it instanciate one menu.
So it feels like the snake eating his tail, doesn't it. But i feel
like i have no choice, when can I instanciate the menu but from the
core? That's not really a question because I'm going to review a lot
of code next days, so I gonna rethink some of this.
Well I think you should work on seperating Windows into a
Widget.Takos.Dialog module or similar and this way you make it so that
you just can use somebody elses window system. (snip)
Anyways do you have a distinction between applications and widgets
yet?

I have a distinction, widgets don't use windows model, but their own
as they could be anything like only an element my a textnode.

Thanks for that post, it really is going to help me organize the
project in a more traditional and modular way.
 
D

David Mark

Le 12/22/08 10:37 PM, David Mark a écrit :



I would have preferred : "By using efficient code" and "suh as ..."

Save the pointers on English, please.
... never I will know.

Will know what?
Why not ?
I saw the "windows" bouncing on their expansions without delay and

I wouldn't expect much of a delay on a click.
belting back well enough fast for me.
A relative slow could be a design ?

Yes (I think.)
Perhaps have I a too good processor in my iMac ?
Perhaps.



Is that really interesting (to stay there) ?
Hu ? your word stinks ? Is that what you mean ?

Obviously not.
The tortuous detections doesn't help me to see in advance what they want

No question.
to do why them then.
(why IE or Opera and in what circumstances)
(arriving three screens latter on the feature for what the detection was
made I've forgotten what could be this foo)(I do not understand how they
can maintain their code)

I am sure it is difficult. From what I have seen, it isn't being
maintained at all.
Except if Rorist rearranged his css, I can get the sub-menus (even if
they are ugly and if something could be done)

?

[snip]
 
R

rf

SAM said:
Le 12/22/08 10:37 PM, David Mark a écrit :
I saw the "windows" bouncing on their expansions without delay and
belting back well enough fast for me.

Whatever that means.

However try dragging one of them. The drag code is basically broken, it
loses the mouse and suddenly things stop dragging and then drag by
themselves *without the mouse left button down*. And how much time has been
devoted here recently to drag/drop?

I assume it is the broken Mootools code doing this.

The concept might be interesting be the choice of tools for the
implementation was poor.
 
R

Rorist

However try dragging one of them. The drag code is basically broken, it
loses the mouse and suddenly things stop dragging and then drag by
themselves *without the mouse left button down*. And how much time has been
devoted here recently to drag/drop?

I assume it is the broken Mootools code doing this.

I can not see that behaviour, do you have a reproducible case ?
The concept might be interesting be the choice of tools for the implementation was poor.

It may have some better choices probably, some people here pointed
other good framework. Though this one is simple, and efficient enough
for my project. As you can see, I'm still learning. When starting
TakOS, it was pure joke, and I didn't make any specification, I was
using Scriptaculous. I cannot imagine have come here saying I was
using it ! Could you ? I would be a dead man now ;-) So maybe in
comparaison with Scripaculous, Mootools is realy realy good..

No I'm kiding, I won't go back in my opinion of MT. But the fact is, I
now need help, and found really interesting views over here. I'm
getting to the point of TMI (too much information) and will be
studying the possibilities all over again.


David said:
I am sure it is difficult. From what I have seen, it isn't being maintained at all.

Really, last release was this year with a complete refactor. And there
are commits regularly.
Last commits are about documentation, and minor fixes, but at least
there are some.
http://github.com/mootools/mootools-core/commits/master

But I assume this piece of software is not at your level of expertise
(personnal attack for personnal attack).
 
S

SAM

Le 12/23/08 1:26 AM, Rorist a écrit :
I can not see that behaviour, do you have a reproducible case ?

You just need to drag down, the pointer leaves the title bar.
From there you can quit the mouse button, the drag will restart coming
back over the title bar.

Il suffit de glisser assez vite et le pointeur continue tout seul en
larguant la fenêtre. Dès que le pointeur a quitté la barre de titre on
peut lacher le bouton du mulot. Le glissement pourra reprendre dès le
prochain survol de la barre de titre sans re-toucher au bouton de la souris.
C'est très reposant ;-)
 
S

SAM

Le 12/23/08 1:26 AM, Rorist a écrit :
I can not see that behaviour, do you have a reproducible case ?

You just need to drag down, the pointer leaves the title bar.
From there you can quit the mouse button, the drag will restart coming
back over the title bar.

Il suffit de glisser assez vite et le pointeur continue tout seul en
larguant la fenêtre. Dès que le pointeur a quitté la barre de titre on
peut lacher le bouton du mulot. Le glissement pourra reprendre dès le
prochain survol de la barre de titre sans re-toucher au bouton de la souris.
C'est très reposant ;-)
 
R

rf

Rorist said:
I can not see that behaviour, do you have a reproducible case ?

Open the word thing. Mouse down on the black header. Move mose down,
quickly. The word thing stops dragging. Release mouse button. Move mouse
around. The word thing continues to drag. It's not noticing the mouseup,
probably because the event listener may be (I didn't look) attached to the
wrong element. Hint: document or body.

All of this is in Firefox. Same thing happens in Seamonkey and Chrome. Seems
to work OK in Windows Safari. Opera simply reports "Your browser is not
compatible !".

I fired up IE7 to check what happens there. Of course, it doesn't work. The
whole thing doesn't work. While waiting for that javascript "library" do
download IE7 reports a javascript error "Object doesn't support this
property or method" and abandons any further javascript.

FWIW IE6 simply displays a blank screen, as does IE5.5. Oh, and with all
versions of IE the login panel is not centred.

So much for cross browser :)
 
D

David Mark

I can not see that behaviour, do you have a reproducible case ?


It may have some better choices probably, some people here pointed
other good framework. Though this one is simple, and efficient enough

Do not mistake Kenny's recommendation for something useful.
for my project. As you can see, I'm still learning. When starting
TakOS, it was pure joke, and I didn't make any specification, I was

Not much has changed.
using Scriptaculous. I cannot imagine have come here saying I was
using it ! Could you ? I would be a dead man now ;-) So maybe in
comparaison with Scripaculous, Mootools is realy realy good..

Scriptaculous (sp?) is an add-on for Prototype. MooTools is a knock-
off of Prototype that has some of the functionality of Scriptaculous.
There is nothing in MooTools that I would call "realy realy
good" (sic). On the contrary, all mentioned are really, really bad.
Badly designed, badly implemented, badly maintained and a very bad
choice for a Website, much less a Web application.
No I'm kiding, I won't go back in my opinion of MT. But the fact is, I

Your opinion on "MT" is virtually worthless. The sooner you see that,
the better off your project will be.
now need help, and found really interesting views over here. I'm
getting to the point of TMI (too much information) and will be
studying the possibilities all over again.



Really, last release was this year with a complete refactor. And there

The last release date hardly matters. This project has been out for
how long? It would take an hour to fix the most obvious gaffes. The
"advantage" of many eyes on the source doesn't seem to be working for
them.
are commits regularly.

Commits by whom?
Last commits are about documentation, and minor fixes, but at least
there are some.http://github.com/mootools/mootools-core/commits/master

Much ado about nothing. One entry sticks out:

" - Apparently, I was drunk when I committed this. I sincerely
apologize to
everyone losing their <head> and <body> because of me. "

I suspect the original author(s) were drunk as well.
But I assume this piece of software is not at your level of expertise

You better believe it.
(personnal attack for personnal attack).

What personnal (sic) attack?
 

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