Website charging

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Blindsya, Jul 11, 2003.

  1. Blindsya

    Blindsya Guest

    I know I know, this has little to with HTML issues and I'm deeply sorry for
    posting this on here. I live in the south west area of england and was
    wondering how much I should charge for making a website for a small company
    aas I don't even know where to start on pricing. The site consists of 10
    pages of tables and text and another page which includes a form that posts
    to an email address. Any help would be much appriciated.
    Blindsya, Jul 11, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Blindsya wrote:

    > I know I know, this has little to with HTML issues and I'm deeply sorry for
    > posting this on here. I live in the south west area of england and was
    > wondering how much I should charge for making a website for a small company
    > aas I don't even know where to start on pricing. The site consists of 10
    > pages of tables and text and another page which includes a form that posts
    > to an email address. Any help would be much appriciated.

    1) Are those tables used for layouts? If so, you should be paying them.
    2) Form posting to an email address? If I understood right, you're just
    setting the action to "mailto:"? If so, pay them some
    more.
    Leif K-Brooks, Jul 11, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Blindsya

    Blindsya Guest

    > Blindsya wrote:
    >
    > > I know I know, this has little to with HTML issues and I'm deeply sorry

    for
    > > posting this on here. I live in the south west area of england and was
    > > wondering how much I should charge for making a website for a small

    company
    > > aas I don't even know where to start on pricing. The site consists of

    10
    > > pages of tables and text and another page which includes a form that

    posts
    > > to an email address. Any help would be much appriciated.

    > 1) Are those tables used for layouts? If so, you should be paying them.
    > 2) Form posting to an email address? If I understood right, you're just
    > setting the action to "mailto:"? If so, pay them some
    > more.
    >

    No, I shall be using CSS positioning for layouts and what other way do you
    suggest than using a simple mailto: in a form?
    Blindsya, Jul 11, 2003
    #3
  4. In article <bembj0$i6n$>, says...
    > > Blindsya wrote:
    > >
    > > > I know I know, this has little to with HTML issues and I'm deeply sorry

    > for
    > > > posting this on here. I live in the south west area of england and was
    > > > wondering how much I should charge for making a website for a small

    > company
    > > > aas I don't even know where to start on pricing. The site consists of

    > 10
    > > > pages of tables and text and another page which includes a form that

    > posts
    > > > to an email address. Any help would be much appriciated.

    > > 1) Are those tables used for layouts? If so, you should be paying them.
    > > 2) Form posting to an email address? If I understood right, you're just
    > > setting the action to "mailto:"? If so, pay them some
    > > more.
    > >

    > No, I shall be using CSS positioning for layouts and what other way do you
    > suggest than using a simple mailto: in a form?
    >

    A proper form-handler. mailto: DOES NOT work.

    To your original question, how much is your time worth? How much
    experience do you have? Are you doing the design work, too? Do you
    have office overheads to pay? Do you have a portfolio? Where is it?

    --
    Hywel Never knowingly understood
    http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/
    http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/mfaq.php
    Hywel Jenkins, Jul 11, 2003
    #4
  5. Blindsya wrote:
    > I know I know, this has little to with HTML issues and I'm deeply sorry for
    > posting this on here. I live in the south west area of england and was
    > wondering how much I should charge for making a website for a small company
    > aas I don't even know where to start on pricing. The site consists of 10
    > pages of tables and text and another page which includes a form that posts
    > to an email address. Any help would be much appriciated.


    As a rule of thumb, charge whatever makes you feel good. There's no
    point in working for peanuts, and there's no point in charging so much
    that nobody hires you.

    Or "shop around" and check out what similar webdesigners in your
    country/area charge for similar work.


    Matthias
    Matthias Gutfeldt, Jul 11, 2003
    #5
  6. Blindsya

    Michel Guest

    mailto DOES work, but like shit.
    use a php mailer script to post your form to.
    That can be setup in minutes, and if you can't do it, I would be able to
    help you out in a flash, no problem.

    Michel

    PS: 10 basic pages..... I'd say, be happy with 250 and do a really good job
    on them




    "Blindsya" <> wrote in message
    news:bembj0$i6n$...
    > > Blindsya wrote:
    > >
    > > > I know I know, this has little to with HTML issues and I'm deeply

    sorry
    > for
    > > > posting this on here. I live in the south west area of england and

    was
    > > > wondering how much I should charge for making a website for a small

    > company
    > > > aas I don't even know where to start on pricing. The site consists of

    > 10
    > > > pages of tables and text and another page which includes a form that

    > posts
    > > > to an email address. Any help would be much appriciated.

    > > 1) Are those tables used for layouts? If so, you should be paying them.
    > > 2) Form posting to an email address? If I understood right, you're just
    > > setting the action to "mailto:"? If so, pay them some
    > > more.
    > >

    > No, I shall be using CSS positioning for layouts and what other way do you
    > suggest than using a simple mailto: in a form?
    >
    >
    Michel, Jul 11, 2003
    #6
  7. Blindsya

    Richard Guest

    "Blindsya" <> wrote in message
    news:bemaqn$g19$...
    > I know I know, this has little to with HTML issues and I'm deeply sorry

    for
    > posting this on here. I live in the south west area of england and was
    > wondering how much I should charge for making a website for a small

    company
    > aas I don't even know where to start on pricing. The site consists of 10
    > pages of tables and text and another page which includes a form that posts
    > to an email address. Any help would be much appriciated.
    >
    >


    5 pounds a page if there's not much in the way of graphics, 10 pounds a page
    if they want to add a ton of ads on it.
    Charge more depending on how intense and time consuming it is to you.
    If they want it that bad, they'll pay.
    Richard, Jul 11, 2003
    #7
  8. In article <bemgf3$puc$>, webmaster@handleiding-online-
    nospam-aub.nl says...
    > "Blindsya" <> wrote in message
    > news:bembj0$i6n$...
    > > > Blindsya wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > I know I know, this has little to with HTML issues and I'm deeply

    > sorry
    > > for
    > > > > posting this on here. I live in the south west area of england and

    > was
    > > > > wondering how much I should charge for making a website for a small

    > > company
    > > > > aas I don't even know where to start on pricing. The site consists of

    > > 10
    > > > > pages of tables and text and another page which includes a form that

    > > posts
    > > > > to an email address. Any help would be much appriciated.
    > > > 1) Are those tables used for layouts? If so, you should be paying them.
    > > > 2) Form posting to an email address? If I understood right, you're just
    > > > setting the action to "mailto:"? If so, pay them some
    > > > more.
    > > >

    > > No, I shall be using CSS positioning for layouts and what other way do you
    > > suggest than using a simple mailto: in a form?
    > >

    > mailto DOES work, but like shit.

    No, no, no, no. Never take advice from someone who top-posts.

    > use a php mailer script to post your form to.

    Except taht bit of advice.

    --
    Hywel Never knowingly understood
    http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/
    http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/mfaq.php
    Hywel Jenkins, Jul 11, 2003
    #8
  9. Blindsya wrote:
    > I know I know, this has little to with HTML issues and I'm deeply sorry for
    > posting this on here. I live in the south west area of england and was
    > wondering how much I should charge for making a website for a small company
    > aas I don't even know where to start on pricing. The site consists of 10
    > pages of tables and text and another page which includes a form that posts
    > to an email address. Any help would be much appriciated.


    No flat out answer is possible. How much work are you investing and how
    much is your time and ultimately your effort worth?
    A suit designed by Giorgio Armani costs more than one designed by John
    Doe. Also, what is it that you are doing? Just the HTML code? Or will
    you design the layout of the page(s), too? And the graphics as well?


    --
    Nicolai Zwar
    http://www.nicolaizwar.com
    (we're late, we know, and we're still closed)
    Nicolai P. Zwar, Jul 11, 2003
    #9
  10. Blindsya

    Blindsya Guest

    "Richard" <anom@anom> wrote in message news:...
    >
    > "Blindsya" <> wrote in message
    > news:bemaqn$g19$...
    > > I know I know, this has little to with HTML issues and I'm deeply sorry

    > for
    > > posting this on here. I live in the south west area of england and was
    > > wondering how much I should charge for making a website for a small

    > company
    > > aas I don't even know where to start on pricing. The site consists of

    10
    > > pages of tables and text and another page which includes a form that

    posts
    > > to an email address. Any help would be much appriciated.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > 5 pounds a page if there's not much in the way of graphics, 10 pounds a

    page
    > if they want to add a ton of ads on it.
    > Charge more depending on how intense and time consuming it is to you.
    > If they want it that bad, they'll pay.


    There was some site on the internet that was wanting £450 for 3 simple
    pages! That I thought was just an incredible rip off as their own site was
    pretty dire!
    Blindsya, Jul 11, 2003
    #10
  11. Blindsya wrote:
    > "Richard" <anom@anom> wrote in message news:...
    >
    >>"Blindsya" <> wrote in message
    >>news:bemaqn$g19$...
    >>
    >>>I know I know, this has little to with HTML issues and I'm deeply sorry

    >>
    >>for
    >>
    >>>posting this on here. I live in the south west area of england and was
    >>>wondering how much I should charge for making a website for a small

    >>
    >>company
    >>
    >>>aas I don't even know where to start on pricing. The site consists of

    >>

    > 10
    >
    >>>pages of tables and text and another page which includes a form that

    >>

    > posts
    >
    >>>to an email address. Any help would be much appriciated.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>5 pounds a page if there's not much in the way of graphics, 10 pounds a

    >
    > page
    >
    >>if they want to add a ton of ads on it.
    >>Charge more depending on how intense and time consuming it is to you.
    >>If they want it that bad, they'll pay.

    >
    >
    > There was some site on the internet that was wanting £450 for 3 simple
    > pages! That I thought was just an incredible rip off as their own site was
    > pretty dire!


    True, but 5 pounds (Which pounds? I'm assuming Pound Sterling here,
    which is about seven US Dollars or seven Euros.) a page is pretty low,
    unless all you have to do is some adjustment of a template.


    --
    Nicolai Zwar
    http://www.nicolaizwar.com
    (we're late, we know, and we're still closed)
    Nicolai P. Zwar, Jul 12, 2003
    #11
  12. Blindsya

    Blindsya Guest

    Nicolai Zwar said

    "5 pounds (Which pounds? I'm assuming Pound Sterling here, which is about
    seven US Dollars or seven Euros.) a page is pretty low"

    Yes I agree! I'm going to be doing a couple of sites for several small
    businesses and shall be starting from scratch doing absoloutly everything
    from layout, graphics, page design, content right through to uploading to
    server, buying a domain name and regestering the sites with the top search
    engines. I fell for a job like this I would have to charge more like £20
    per page.
    Blindsya, Jul 12, 2003
    #12
  13. In article <bep3re$dh3$>, says...
    > Nicolai Zwar said
    >
    > "5 pounds (Which pounds? I'm assuming Pound Sterling here, which is about
    > seven US Dollars or seven Euros.) a page is pretty low"
    >
    > Yes I agree! I'm going to be doing a couple of sites for several small
    > businesses and shall be starting from scratch doing absoloutly everything
    > from layout, graphics, page design, content right through to uploading to
    > server, buying a domain name and regestering the sites with the top search
    > engines. I fell for a job like this I would have to charge more like £20
    > per page.


    Why charge per page?

    --
    Hywel Never knowingly understood
    http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/
    http://hyweljenkins.co.uk/mfaq.php
    Hywel Jenkins, Jul 12, 2003
    #13
  14. Blindsya

    PeterMcC Guest

    Blindsya wrote:
    > Nicolai Zwar said
    >
    > "5 pounds (Which pounds? I'm assuming Pound Sterling here, which is
    > about seven US Dollars or seven Euros.) a page is pretty low"
    >
    > Yes I agree! I'm going to be doing a couple of sites for several
    > small businesses and shall be starting from scratch doing absoloutly
    > everything from layout, graphics, page design, content right through
    > to uploading to server, buying a domain name and regestering the
    > sites with the top search engines. I fell for a job like this I
    > would have to charge more like £20 per page.


    The following is my own take on how my company charges for time - it might
    help.

    A professional, employed by a company on the income side, should be looking
    to bring at least £40,000 in to that company to pay him/her a decent salary
    and cover the on-costs associated with employing that person: NIC, office
    space, insurance, benefits, etc...

    At best, that person would be fee-earning for two-thirds of their time - the
    rest of the time they'd be looking for business, liaising with clients,
    involved in admin, keeping their skills up-dated and so on. If they work for
    48 weeks in the year at 40 hours per week they be fee-earning for 1280
    hours.

    To bring in the gross £50,000 they'd have to charge £40 an hour - any less
    and they're not worth employing commercially.

    If you consider that you're not a full time professional and you're probably
    slower than a pro, you might halve that figure - I'd call that a bit drastic
    but you don't want to frighten off customers in the early days, after all,
    earning £20 an hour is a lot better than not earning £40 an hour.

    So, on those figures, it's £20 an hour - and if you can't get that you'll
    either have to reconcile yourself to it being a hobby that makes a few bob
    or give it up because you can't make a living charging any less. Imagine
    that you managed to work full time at this - you'll do well to be actually
    earning for half your working week - at £20 an hour, you'd be grossing
    £19,000 a year and you'd have to pay for all your equipment, software, tax,
    NI out of that.

    I hope that helps - even if it only helps you decide to forget it :)

    Best of luck.

    --
    PeterMcC
    If you feel that any of the above is incorrect,
    inappropriate or offensive in any way,
    please ignore it and accept my apologies.
    PeterMcC, Jul 12, 2003
    #14
  15. Blindsya

    Andy Dingley Guest

    On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:02:45 +0100, "Blindsya" <> wrote:

    >There was some site on the internet that was wanting £450 for 3 simple
    >pages!


    £150 for "designing" a "page" isn't a bad deal. The trouble is that
    "the page" is a lousy metric for the effort involved. What does a SW
    England web spod get these days ? £15/hour ? A whole day's work on
    doing the design work for a page from scratch is easily added up, if
    your client changes their mind or quibbles a detail.

    A one page site is easy - no navigation. The HTML takes minutes and
    the rest of the effort is down to "the design" of "the look" which can
    take any amount of time, depending on how you do it and what they
    want.

    2-7 pages is quite cheap, because navigation can be a simple one-axis
    menu and it's recycling the expensive one-off design work you've
    already done with only a small amount of cheap text added. A CSS
    stylesheet can easily take as much work as a dozen flat HTML pages
    without any layout - the incremental cost per page becomes tiny
    afterwards.

    8-36 pages is a little more, because you need two levels of menu
    structure and that brings in enough content management hassle that a
    minor layout change by the client can cause a lot of re-work and need
    for re-testing.

    Over 50 pages and you're into databases. Now you have to judge
    complexity before quoting. Most of my pages cost several thousand
    _each_, but then that one dynamic page might be running almost an
    entire site.

    The mailer form is a no-cost add-on, because a commercial developer
    has already solved the tech of providing these on their previous
    sites. If you do charge a price for it, it'll be small (I'd
    probably bundle it into the basic package deal).

    try news:uk.net.web.authoring too
    Andy Dingley, Jul 12, 2003
    #15
  16. While the city slept, PeterMcC <> feverishly typed:

    > at £20 an hour, you'd be grossing £19,000 a year and you'd have to
    > pay for all your equipment, software, tax, NI out of that.


    But don't forget that a lot of the purchases (especially IT equipment,
    unless there has been a change recently) may be tax-deductable! And if you
    are VAT registered, you can claim the VAT back on business purchases. May be
    beneficial to employ a good accountant, as long as they don't cost more than
    they save...

    Cheers,
    Nige

    --
    Nigel Moss.

    Email address is not valid. . Take the dog out!
    http://www.nigenet.org.uk | Boycott E$$O!! http://www.stopesso.com
    "How strange the change from major to minor..."
    nice.guy.nige, Jul 12, 2003
    #16
  17. nice.guy.nige wrote:
    > While the city slept, PeterMcC <> feverishly typed:
    >
    >
    >>at £20 an hour, you'd be grossing £19,000 a year and you'd have to
    >>pay for all your equipment, software, tax, NI out of that.

    >
    >
    > But don't forget that a lot of the purchases (especially IT equipment,
    > unless there has been a change recently) may be tax-deductable!


    Yes, but tax-deductable means just that: you don't have to pay income
    tax on the money. You still have to pay for the stuff yourself.


    --
    Nicolai Zwar
    http://www.nicolaizwar.com
    (we're late, we know, and we're still closed)
    Nicolai P. Zwar, Jul 12, 2003
    #17
  18. While the city slept, Nicolai P. Zwar <> feverishly
    typed:

    > nice.guy.nige wrote:
    >> While the city slept, PeterMcC <> feverishly
    >> typed:
    >>
    >>
    >>> at £20 an hour, you'd be grossing £19,000 a year and you'd have to
    >>> pay for all your equipment, software, tax, NI out of that.

    >>
    >> But don't forget that a lot of the purchases (especially IT
    >> equipment, unless there has been a change recently) may be tax-
    >> deductable!

    >
    > Yes, but tax-deductable means just that: you don't have to pay income
    > tax on the money. You still have to pay for the stuff yourself.


    Yes. But you don't then have to pay the tax... If I buy a product for £100
    then you are right, I do have to pay the retailer £100 for that product. If
    that product is 100% tax deductable, then that is £100 that I don't have to
    pay in tax. Simplified figures and analogy, of course...

    Cheers,
    Nige

    --
    Nigel Moss.

    Email address is not valid. . Take the dog out!
    http://www.nigenet.org.uk | Boycott E$$O!! http://www.stopesso.com
    "How strange the change from major to minor..."
    nice.guy.nige, Jul 12, 2003
    #18
  19. Blindsya

    Gerry Nance Guest

    >From: "Blindsya"
    >Newsgroups: alt.html
    >Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:35:26 +0100


    >
    >
    >I know I know, this has little to with HTML issues and I'm deeply sorry for
    >posting this on here. I live in the south west area of england and was
    >wondering how much I should charge for making a website for a small company
    >aas I don't even know where to start on pricing. The site consists of 10
    >pages of tables and text and another page which includes a form that posts
    >to an email address. Any help would be much appriciated.


    It is not the ease of the task, but the willingness of others to pay you for
    your expertise.

    I put a lot of time into designing a website, so I charge US $150 for the first
    page and $100 for each additional page, plus $50 per maintenance session.

    I base this on the needs of my daily income of about $100, for my cost of
    living -- which I need to calculate more accurately.

    Figure out what your Annual/Monthly budget is:

    Start by paying your self first:
    Add in a Savings goal of about $200 per month, 30-days of holiday/vacation per
    year at about $50/day or $1500. Annual Savings plus vacation expense equals
    $3900.

    Add costs for your Mortgage/Rent(s), utilities, food, sundries, clothing,
    insurance, vehicle (fuel and maintenance), entertainment, tools, hobbies,
    subscriptions, etc., and a miscellaneous of $100 per month.

    Add dependents/pets expenses.

    Divide the sum by 2000 hours, or 12-months, or 30 days (or 22-days), then
    divide the daily amount by 8, 10 or 12, to get your hourly rate. You might
    even want to average the three rates, to get your number.

    You might charge USD $1,050 for the ten-page site, but is that enough?

    How much should you earn per day, in order to afford what you need/desire?

    How much should you charge for one hour of your labor, in order to afford the
    lifestyle, and savings goal, that you desire?

    You might charge USD $1,050 for the ten-page site, but is that enough?

    How many websites do your need to do --or average -- a month?

    Consider there will be months, when people don't need a website, or your
    services, so while you are out marketing your business, you will need to draw
    on savings, to pay your minimimized budget.



    Gerry Nance
    World Alumni Registry
    http://www.alumni.net
    Register Today! Pass it on...
    Gerry Nance, Jul 12, 2003
    #19
  20. nice.guy.nige wrote:
    > While the city slept, Nicolai P. Zwar <>
    > feverishly typed:
    >>
    >> Yes, but tax-deductable means just that: you don't have to pay
    >> income tax on the money. You still have to pay for the stuff
    >> yourself.

    >
    > Yes. But you don't then have to pay the tax... If I buy a product
    > for £100 then you are right, I do have to pay the retailer £100 for
    > that product. If that product is 100% tax deductable, then that is
    > £100 that I don't have to pay in tax.


    No, that's £100 you don't have to pay taxes on[1]. That's very
    different from not paying £100 in taxes, which seems to be what you're
    saying. If the tax rate is 8%, then a £100 deduction will save you
    from paying £8 in taxes ... not £100.

    [1] Maybe: depends on whether you're talking a flat tax, a step-wise
    tax like US income, etc.

    --
    Joel.



    Simplified figures and
    > analogy, of course...
    >
    > Cheers, Nige
    >



    --
    Joel Shepherd

    http://www.cv6.org/
    "May she also say with just pride:
    I have done the State some service."
    Joel Shepherd, Jul 12, 2003
    #20
    1. Advertising

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