Weighing the evidence, Perl is a GUESSING game !!

Discussion in 'Perl Misc' started by robic0, Mar 1, 2006.

  1. robic0

    robic0 Guest

    I know there's some folks who hang their hat on Perl.
    That notwithstanding, and without criticism to them,
    given the extremely *poor* documentation of Perl and,
    and. Have to stop the sentence because it worms to
    infinity, not conducive to English.

    I find it incredible to read some recent posts where
    actual C pointers are somehow analogous to a Perl
    construct. There is *nothing* available in Perl scripts
    except pseudo C. There is *no* C, ie: addresses or
    pointer arithmatic you can see, do, or say in Perl !!

    The core of Perl is compiled. That is the end of contact
    with Perl's core C code!! After that its an interfaced,
    pseudo language thats provided to Perl programmers.

    You have zero (0) control of the internals of Perl after that,
    only to the extent of which is provided by such.
    When you write Perl scripts, your so far away from C and the
    operating system, you can't see!

    After Perl is compiled there is not interaction with it, it
    exists as a binary. There is no construct in Perl to alter
    dynamic pointers in the C Perl core! Even if you wanted
    to increment an address from a script, and it passed you the
    (current) virtual memory location, the indirection would be
    a killer! The time involved would be prohibitive. Perhaps
    if there were pseudo C-like primitives in the native Perl
    language, it would be feasable. It would involve multiple
    indirection though. But what "++" construct from Perl?
    How would that crash the machine, let me count the ways.
    Boundries don't exists in the Perl population like it does
    in C/C++. To let a Perl script control addressing would be
    a nightmare!

    Thats why they don't allow that shit!

    If there's anybody who reads this who thinks otherwise
    just post a follow. Otherwise *Perl* does not and will
    never (because of the history off psudo languages) allow
    access to and alteration of C core's.

    I'm writing this because of the recent avalance of bullshit
    on this subject by Abgail and Sunan and others on a single subject.

    I'm ready to go to the mat on this one ...

    -robic
     
    robic0, Mar 1, 2006
    #1
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  2. robic0

    Uri Guttman Guest

    >>>>> "r" == robic0 <robic0> writes:

    r> I'm ready to go to the mat on this one ...

    i'd like to introduce you to moronzilla one day. the two of you would
    make a very happy and loonie couple and you could go off inventing your
    own languages.

    uri

    --
    Uri Guttman ------ -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
    --Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
    Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
     
    Uri Guttman, Mar 1, 2006
    #2
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  3. On 2006-03-01, Uri Guttman <> wrote:
    >>>>>> "r" == robic0 <robic0> writes:

    >
    > r> I'm ready to go to the mat on this one ...
    >
    > i'd like to introduce you to moronzilla one day. the two of you would
    > make a very happy and loonie couple and you could go off inventing your
    > own languages.


    Please do not do that unless we can seal them off in their own pocket
    dimension. KTHX.

    dha

    --
    David H. Adler - <> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
    It was when a cow-orker proudly showed me his Java Ring that I finally
    realised that Java was nothing more than a huge April Fool joke that had
    got out of hand. - Andy Wardley
     
    David H. Adler, Mar 1, 2006
    #3
  4. robic0

    Uri Guttman Guest

    >>>>> "DHA" == David H Adler <> writes:

    DHA> On 2006-03-01, Uri Guttman <> wrote:
    >>>>>>> "r" == robic0 <robic0> writes:

    >>

    r> I'm ready to go to the mat on this one ...
    >>
    >> i'd like to introduce you to moronzilla one day. the two of you would
    >> make a very happy and loonie couple and you could go off inventing your
    >> own languages.


    DHA> Please do not do that unless we can seal them off in their own pocket
    DHA> dimension. KTHX.

    i would expect their intro to create such a warped dimension and hence
    writing their own lang.

    it would be too funny to watch them 'communicate' all their perl
    knowledge.

    uri

    --
    Uri Guttman ------ -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
    --Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
    Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
     
    Uri Guttman, Mar 1, 2006
    #4
  5. robic0

    Guest

    Uri Guttman wrote:

    > it would be too funny to watch them 'communicate' all their perl
    > knowledge.


    shhhhhhh.... don't nudge it or it might return.

    --
    http://DavidFilmer.com
     
    , Mar 1, 2006
    #5
  6. robic0

    Guest

    robic0 wrote:
    > I know there's [sic] some folks who hang their hat on Perl.


    Wow, I had no idea that Perl can also be used as a hatstand! It's
    simply amazing what Perl can do!
     
    , Mar 1, 2006
    #6
  7. On 2006-03-01, Uri Guttman <> wrote:
    >>>>>> "DHA" == David H Adler <> writes:

    >
    > DHA> On 2006-03-01, Uri Guttman <> wrote:
    > >>>>>>> "r" == robic0 <robic0> writes:
    > >>

    > r> I'm ready to go to the mat on this one ...
    > >>
    > >> i'd like to introduce you to moronzilla one day. the two of you would
    > >> make a very happy and loonie couple and you could go off inventing your
    > >> own languages.

    >
    > DHA> Please do not do that unless we can seal them off in their own pocket
    > DHA> dimension. KTHX.
    >
    > i would expect their intro to create such a warped dimension and hence
    > writing their own lang.


    I don't feel comfortable leaving such things to chance.

    > it would be too funny to watch them 'communicate' all their perl
    > knowledge.


    Maybe for you. At this point, I've moved on to finding it tiresome. To
    each their own. :)

    dha

    --
    David H. Adler - <> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
    I don't want to get bitter/I don't want to turn cruel/I don't want to
    get old before I have to/I don't want to get jaded/Petrified and
    weighted/I don't want to get bitter like you. - Jill Sobule
     
    David H. Adler, Mar 1, 2006
    #7
  8. robic0

    Lukas Mai Guest

    robic0 schrob:
    [..]
    > I find it incredible to read some recent posts where
    > actual C pointers are somehow analogous to a Perl
    > construct. There is *nothing* available in Perl scripts
    > except pseudo C. There is *no* C, ie: addresses or
    > pointer arithmatic you can see, do, or say in Perl !!


    perldoc -f pack
    ....
    p A pointer to a null-terminated string.
    P A pointer to a structure (fixed-length string).
    ....

    > The core of Perl is compiled. That is the end of contact
    > with Perl's core C code!! After that its an interfaced,
    > pseudo language thats provided to Perl programmers.


    "Pseudo" has nothing to do with compilation.

    > You have zero (0) control of the internals of Perl after that,
    > only to the extent of which is provided by such.
    > When you write Perl scripts, your so far away from C and the
    > operating system, you can't see!


    perldoc perlxs
    perldoc Inline::C
    perldoc -f syscall

    > After Perl is compiled there is not interaction with it, it
    > exists as a binary. There is no construct in Perl to alter
    > dynamic pointers in the C Perl core!


    Yes, there is. You can implement peek and poke in pure Perl, at least on
    Unix-like systems.

    > Even if you wanted
    > to increment an address from a script, and it passed you the
    > (current) virtual memory location, the indirection would be
    > a killer! The time involved would be prohibitive. Perhaps
    > if there were pseudo C-like primitives in the native Perl
    > language, it would be feasable. It would involve multiple
    > indirection though. But what "++" construct from Perl?
    > How would that crash the machine, let me count the ways.
    > Boundries don't exists in the Perl population like it does
    > in C/C++. To let a Perl script control addressing would be
    > a nightmare!
    >
    > Thats why they don't allow that shit!


    Bla, bla, bla.

    $ perl -e '$# = "%n"; print 42'
    Segmentation fault

    > If there's anybody who reads this who thinks otherwise
    > just post a follow. Otherwise *Perl* does not and will
    > never (because of the history off psudo languages) allow
    > access to and alteration of C core's.


    "Pseudo" has nothing to do with C. C is not the reality. You can
    implement C in Perl.

    > I'm writing this because of the recent avalance of bullshit
    > on this subject by Abgail and Sunan and others on a single subject.


    I bet you couldn't even understand a single Abigail JAPH/obfu.

    > I'm ready to go to the mat on this one ...
    >
    > -robic


    You suck at spelling names.

    HTH, Lukas
     
    Lukas Mai, Mar 1, 2006
    #8
  9. robic0

    Matt Garrish Guest

    "Uri Guttman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >>>>>> "r" == robic0 <robic0> writes:

    >
    > r> I'm ready to go to the mat on this one ...
    >
    > i'd like to introduce you to moronzilla one day. the two of you would
    > make a very happy and loonie couple and you could go off inventing your
    > own languages.
    >


    At least Xah has a personal crusade against the unix f*ckheads who use Perl,
    and is almost convincing in his blather (though in a warped and demented
    kind of way). robic0's attempts to mimic him just fall flat in so many
    ways...

    Matt
     
    Matt Garrish, Mar 1, 2006
    #9
  10. robic0

    Guest

    Matt Garrish wrote:
    > "Uri Guttman" <> wrote in message
    > > i'd like to introduce you to moronzilla one day.

    >
    > At least X[*]h has a personal crusade...


    I believe Uri was referring to another troll who has posted irrational
    rants (and dubious code) under various pseudonyms, including the name
    of the cheesy movie monster usually associated with the "zilla" suffix
    (and who has also often posted under a handle which was a misspelled
    (s/e|i/u/g) concatenation of "Perl" and "Girl"). But we should never
    type the name of a troll (including reverse qw{h a X}) in cleartext, as
    it might awaken.

    Some folks have opined that r_o_b_i_c_0 is yet another handle for
    moronzilla, but the posting styles and viewpoints are sufficiently
    different that I do not share that opinion.

    --
    http://DavidFilmer.com
     
    , Mar 1, 2006
    #10
  11. robic0

    Matt Garrish Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Matt Garrish wrote:
    >> "Uri Guttman" <> wrote in message
    >> > i'd like to introduce you to moronzilla one day.

    >>
    >> At least X[*]h has a personal crusade...

    >
    > I believe Uri was referring to another troll who has posted irrational
    > rants (and dubious code) under various pseudonyms, including the name
    > of the cheesy movie monster usually associated with the "zilla" suffix
    > (and who has also often posted under a handle which was a misspelled
    > (s/e|i/u/g) concatenation of "Perl" and "Girl"). But we should never
    > type the name of a troll (including reverse qw{h a X}) in cleartext, as
    > it might awaken.
    >
    > Some folks have opined that r_o_b_i_c_0 is yet another handle for
    > moronzilla, but the posting styles and viewpoints are sufficiently
    > different that I do not share that opinion.
    >


    I'm well aware of her... : )

    I didn't mean to imply that Xah was the person in question, but instead
    point out that this post of rob's was nothing more than another of his lame
    attempts to mimic Xah.

    And he doesn't use "you boys" or any of her small stock of phrases which
    rules her out (it's just too difficult to hide one's voice for any sustained
    period of time, especially when one is certifiable!).

    Matt
     
    Matt Garrish, Mar 2, 2006
    #11
  12. "Lukas Mai" <> wrote in news:du569l$8s9$01$-
    online.com:

    > robic0 schrob:


    ....

    >> I'm writing this because of the recent avalance of bullshit
    >> on this subject by Abgail and Sunan and others on a single subject.


    ....

    > You suck at spelling names.


    You are not giving him enough credit. ;-)

    He sucks at spelling any word.

    Sinan
    --
    A. Sinan Unur <>
    (reverse each component and remove .invalid for email address)

    comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
    http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc/clpmisc_guidelines.html
     
    A. Sinan Unur, Mar 2, 2006
    #12
  13. <> wrote:

    > Some folks have opined that r_o_b_i_c_0 is yet another handle for
    > moronzilla, but the posting styles and viewpoints are sufficiently
    > different that I do not share that opinion.



    The one-of-uncommon-gender is not a bigot, and doesn't trail
    off into meaningless obscenities when it can't find something
    to say, so I share _your_ opinion.


    --
    Tad McClellan SGML consulting
    Perl programming
    Fort Worth, Texas
     
    Tad McClellan, Mar 2, 2006
    #13
  14. wrote:

    > Some folks have opined that r_o_b_i_c_0 is yet another handle for
    > moronzilla, but the posting styles and viewpoints are sufficiently
    > different that I do not share that opinion.


    He reminds me of a certain Scott Nudds who terrorized comp.lang.asm.x86
    until it got moderated.
    I must admit that I, too, fed that troll, as he was very clever in
    baiting me (and others).
    r*0 is not as acid and baiting as S.N., though.

    --
    Josef Möllers (Pinguinpfleger bei FSC)
    If failure had no penalty success would not be a prize
    -- T. Pratchett
     
    Josef Moellers, Mar 2, 2006
    #14
  15. robic0

    robic0 Guest

    On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:47:56 GMT, "A. Sinan Unur" <> wrote:

    >"Lukas Mai" <> wrote in news:du569l$8s9$01$-
    >online.com:
    >
    >> robic0 schrob:

    >
    >...
    >
    >>> I'm writing this because of the recent avalance of bullshit
    >>> on this subject by Abgail and Sunan and others on a single subject.

    >
    >...
    >
    >> You suck at spelling names.

    >
    >You are not giving him enough credit. ;-)
    >
    >He sucks at spelling any word.
    >
    >Sinan


    Whatever u say Nissan
     
    robic0, Mar 5, 2006
    #15
  16. robic0

    robic0 Guest

    On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 17:47:33 -0500, "Matt Garrish" <> wrote:

    >
    >"Uri Guttman" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >>>>>>> "r" == robic0 <robic0> writes:

    >>
    >> r> I'm ready to go to the mat on this one ...
    >>
    >> i'd like to introduce you to moronzilla one day. the two of you would
    >> make a very happy and loonie couple and you could go off inventing your
    >> own languages.
    >>

    >
    >At least Xah has a personal crusade against the unix f*ckheads who use Perl,
    >and is almost convincing in his blather (though in a warped and demented
    >kind of way).


    I was brought in as a consultant to Xah's team, team FukUrHeadUp
     
    robic0, Mar 5, 2006
    #16
  17. robic0

    robic0 Guest

    On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 08:55:12 +0100, Josef Moellers <> wrote:

    > wrote:
    >
    >> Some folks have opined that r_o_b_i_c_0 is yet another handle for
    >> moronzilla, but the posting styles and viewpoints are sufficiently
    >> different that I do not share that opinion.

    >
    >He reminds me of a certain Scott Nudds who terrorized comp.lang.asm.x86
    >until it got moderated.
    >I must admit that I, too, fed that troll, as he was very clever in
    >baiting me (and others).
    >r*0 is not as acid and baiting as S.N., though.


    Thats Mr. Robic0 to you ...
     
    robic0, Mar 5, 2006
    #17
  18. robic0 wrote:
    > On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:47:56 GMT, "A. Sinan Unur"
    >> He sucks at spelling any word.

    >
    > Whatever u say Nissan

    ^^^
    |||

    I rest my case :)))

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Mar 5, 2006
    #18
  19. robic0

    robic0 Guest

    On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 02:25:42 GMT, "Jürgen Exner" <> wrote:

    >robic0 wrote:
    >> On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:47:56 GMT, "A. Sinan Unur"
    >>> He sucks at spelling any word.

    >>
    >> Whatever u say Nissan

    > ^^^
    > |||
    >
    >I rest my case :)))
    >
    >jue
    >

    You don't had a case. "u" is not a word!
     
    robic0, Mar 9, 2006
    #19
  20. robic0 wrote:
    > On Sun, 05 Mar 2006 02:25:42 GMT, "Jürgen Exner"
    > <> wrote:
    >> robic0 wrote:
    >>> On Thu, 02 Mar 2006 00:47:56 GMT, "A. Sinan Unur"
    >>>> He sucks at spelling any word.
    >>>
    >>> Whatever u say Nissan

    >> ^^^
    >> |||
    >>
    >> I rest my case :)))
    >>

    > You don't had a case.

    ^^^^^^^^^
    |||||||||

    Ok, fair enough, it's not spelling, it's grammar.

    > "u" is not a word!


    Interesting question. Does a letter become a word when it is used as a word?

    Anyway, if a sentence is composed of words and u is not a word, then
    - the u had no business being there
    - some word is still missing in that sentence

    On the other hand, if some word is missing in a sentence, is it still a
    sentence or just a sequence of random words?

    I think the answer is 42.


    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Mar 9, 2006
    #20
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