What age is too late to be looking for a job as a programmer if one has no industrial exprience

I

inquiredMind

I saw an article in Newsweek talking about programming job moving from
Indian to China, etc.

If I just want to utilize what I have already learned (comprehensively
but trying to focus on one language for a few months), say even for a
short period like 1-4 should I pursue that route regardless of my age
in late 30s? or should I just use the edication and programming
knowledge and SWEN knowledge (both academic) and put to use pursuing
something else?
 
L

Luc The Perverse

inquiredMind said:
I saw an article in Newsweek talking about programming job moving from
Indian to China, etc.

If I just want to utilize what I have already learned (comprehensively
but trying to focus on one language for a few months), say even for a
short period like 1-4 should I pursue that route regardless of my age
in late 30s? or should I just use the edication and programming
knowledge and SWEN knowledge (both academic) and put to use pursuing
something else?

Late 30's really isn't too old. Seriously if you are give up on yourself
because you are around 40 that is sad.

And what you are asking really is a personal decision.

Some people have adventures in their lives, some people lie around, other
people map out their lives to a T.

If you are asking where the money is, or rehirability we might be able to
help you better. (No guarantees) Plus - what country are you residing in
now?

Many things affect your hiring elidgibility than just the topics covered in
school.
 
I

inquiredMind

Luc said:
Late 30's really isn't too old. Seriously if you are give up on yourself
because you are around 40 that is sad.

Make me feel much better. I am 41, an immigrant from one of the most
oppressed ethnic group in the most oppressed SE Asian country in the
world.
And what you are asking really is a personal decision.

Yeah but I don't want to be putting effort in in the wrong direction
especially since I have other choices which are suitable to my taste
and skills.
Some people have adventures in their lives, some people lie around, other
people map out their lives to a T.

What is a T? BTW, some people happend to be at the right place, at the
right time but I never was .. so far. Now, I feel that I am at the
right place at the reight time but may not be at the right age. I have
not done professional work for 8 years - except tutoring and then
teaching briefly like 6 months about 2 years ago. I didn't teach
programming btw.

I had plenty of adventure, and it was not by choice. I already changed
a career once (not by choice), actually more like quit since I haven't
been established in a new one.

I had neven been able to establish financially, and never even had some
sort of financial stability and I need to get to that byt ene of my
40s. But for not, I just want to use the last/latest education I
obtained.

I don't want to settle for something just to make a living. At the same
time, I don't want make a wrong turn and lose even like 6 mons sepnding
time for a job position that wouldn't come to me *purely* because of my
age. Instead, I can look for a slightly different position, for
example, someone suggested me to try project administer or project
coordinator type position in the industry I want to work in, namely
pharmaceutical because of my bilogical and natural science background.
(Note: Not project manager or business analyst position.) She is in
construction management, a totally different environment wqhere she saw
people coming with those job titles and so I am not even sure about the
job titles she mentioned in pharamceutical industry.
If you are asking where the money is, or rehirability we might be able to
help you better. (No guarantees) Plus - what country are you residing in
now?

Not about money. Not rehirability.

I live in USA and recently became a permanent resident. If age is not
an issue, I want to put use of my education *for sometime* as a
programmer, i.e contract work or not. Then I'll go from there and
see how I can establish myself in that industry.

If age is not an issue to start as a programmer, I want to spend the
next 2 months intensively reviewing the Core Java I learned at school +
JDBC stuff + Servlets and JSP. Then start looking for a job, even if
through agency and agreeing to contracts.Then I'll go from there and
see how I can establish myself in that industry.
Many things affect your hiring elidgibility than just the topics covered in
school.

I am planning to fix that but if age is an issue, I don't want to
invest any more time on pursuing programmer position and rather do
something slightly different which would still allow me programming
software engineering knowledge.

I know that companies are willing to take those in mid 25 with no
expericnce who just got out of college with a computer science degree
but I wonder would they be interseted in me who has some experience in
another industry and another education with knowledge (resrach
experience) that is useful in pharmaceutical industry?
 
B

bowman

inquiredMind said:
If age is not an issue to start as a programmer, I want to spend the
next 2 months intensively reviewing the Core Java I learned at school +
JDBC stuff + Servlets and JSP. Then start looking for a job, even if
through agency and agreeing to contracts.Then I'll go from there and
see how I can establish myself in that industry.

Age WILL be an issue, make no mistake. That said, race, ethnicity,
hairstyle, sex, body weight, and eye color are issues, too. This is not to
say it is impossible to enter the field in your late 30's but you will get
some rejections and pointed questions. When you do, and you will, find an
employer, you will have the satisfaction of knowing they can see deeper
that the others. Smaller companies are often more adventuresome.

Even if you had entered the field at 21, many firms would question why you
are 'just' a programmer and have not ascended to management.
 
P

Patricia Shanahan

bowman wrote:
....
Even if you had entered the field at 21, many firms would question why you
are 'just' a programmer and have not ascended to management.

And I spent all that effort making sure I didn't become a manager, and
getting out of project leader jobs whenever I found myself supervising
more than about 3 others.

How about "Because I'm a good programmer, software engineer, and
computer architect, and have no particular talent for, or interest in,
management."?

Patricia
 
L

Luc The Perverse

inquiredMind said:
Make me feel much better. I am 41, an immigrant from one of the most
oppressed ethnic group in the most oppressed SE Asian country in the
world.

Doesn't sound very fun. I'm sorry my friend.
Yeah but I don't want to be putting effort in in the wrong direction
especially since I have other choices which are suitable to my taste
and skills.

Well I haven't mastered the Job market here in the US so I don't know that I
could offer you advice about the job market in Asia.
What is a T?

It's an expression that means down the very last detail.

I wish you the best of luck my friend. I am glad to hear that you are in
the US now - I think you will find something.

There are employers out there that are concerned that they are going to hire
slackers/lazy individuals. Get some experience under your belt (here I go
with my idioms again, my appologies), even write a few applications yourself
if you have to. If you are good - there will be a job for you
 
I

inquiredMind

Luc said:
Doesn't sound very fun. I'm sorry my friend.


Well I haven't mastered the Job market here in the US so I don't know that I
could offer you advice about the job market in Asia.


It's an expression that means down the very last detail.

I wish you the best of luck my friend. I am glad to hear that you are in
the US now - I think you will find something.

Thanks. I am realizing that spending a lot of time to see what types of
jobs are out there in this field is a must.
There are employers out there that are concerned that they are going to hire
slackers/lazy individuals. Get some experience under your belt (here I go
with my idioms again, my appologies), even write a few applications yourself
if you have to.

I am trying to do that..
If you are good - there will be a job for you

I'll have to be good. No alternative left for me:)-
 
G

Gargoyle

bowman wrote:
...

And I spent all that effort making sure I didn't become a manager, and
getting out of project leader jobs whenever I found myself supervising
more than about 3 others.

How about "Because I'm a good programmer, software engineer, and
computer architect, and have no particular talent for, or interest in,
management."?

Patricia

Ditto.
I have no interest in pushing paper around, writing staff performance reports
or sucking up to superiors or trying and impress them with a golfing handicap.
I am a person that gets the job done, not a pen-pusher!

Being a manager doesn't mean anything anymore.
On the whole, modern managers don't manage. Managers, by definition, should
manage, i.e. take charge and make decisions - not spend hours in committee
meetings only to make excuses.

I have only ever met ONE manager in my entire working life, and it wasn't at a
high-flying multi-national, it was at a charity. So there you go!
 
L

Leon Lambert

Patricia said:
bowman wrote:
...

And I spent all that effort making sure I didn't become a manager, and
getting out of project leader jobs whenever I found myself supervising
more than about 3 others.

How about "Because I'm a good programmer, software engineer, and
computer architect, and have no particular talent for, or interest in,
management."?

Patricia
Ditto...
I found management no fun at all. I did it for a while. I ended up
promoting my own boss and went back to developing. I don't mind
mentoring and or helping managers with some task but really get my
jollies from designing and implementing good code.

Leon Lambert
 
B

bowman

Gargoyle said:
Being a manager doesn't mean anything anymore.
On the whole, modern managers don't manage. Managers, by definition,
should manage, i.e. take charge and make decisions - not spend hours in
committee meetings only to make excuses.

I'm lucky; I am working with one of the best managers I've ever met. All the
politics and infighting get filtered out and I get to make things work.
Fortunately, I am fairly competent at making things work and nobody seems
to want to rock the boat.
 
G

Gargoyle

I'm lucky; I am working with one of the best managers I've ever met. All the
politics and infighting get filtered out and I get to make things work.
Fortunately, I am fairly competent at making things work and nobody seems
to want to rock the boat.
You're so lucky, I envy you. Make the most of it, in case he retires like my
one did.
 
M

marcwentink

inquiredMind schreef:
I saw an article in Newsweek talking about programming job moving from
Indian to China, etc.


Yeah, but not only programming jobs, it's especially lower
administrative jobs, what are the younger unexperienced middle educated
going to have for a future :-(.

But the thing is that if you let a programmer in a third world country
do something over the internet for $5 an hour or something, one as an
employer has to:

*. Exactly describe what you want.
*, Not expect any comments or questions like, I think this is not
possible are you sure...

The programmer over the internet will not have the strong inter human
communication you will have on the job on spot.

Hence, there always be possibilities for software engineers, but I
think you should put your focus a bit more on defining the right
software, software integration, and asking yourself and your customer
the right questions, rather then put your focus on merely programming
fixed predefined modules as fast and as cheap as possible.

Anyway, I think lower administrators and production laborers are in a
lot of more trouble then us software engineers. Yes I think this
jobshifting is a problem in general for us in the 'rich and fortunate'
west. Probably in a few decades the lower middle class will not be so
rich and fortunate anymore.
 

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