What do you use to make Comments

A

Andrew Glasgow

Whitecrest said:
Who generated all the back end code? Not you. You did not type a
single line of it. If you if you are a bigger fool that you appear to
be.

The main difference is that while graphics toolkits and OS apis have
proven themselves to be very useful in generating reliably workable
code, GUI html editors have shown themselves to be very unreliable in
generating standard-compliant, cross-browser functional web pages. (Yes,
I know you think that standard-compliance is stupid, but I think you're
stupid, so it's even.^_^)
 
T

Toby A Inkster

rf said:
If so, did you use the resource editor and the associated wizards or did you
directly edit the .rc and .rh files and create class CMyDialog : public
CDialog yourself?

I don't know what "the resource editor" is, so I've certainly not used it.

Any C I have written has been by hand in a text editor (usually in pico
or nedit). And I've written whizzy 3D OpenGL stuff, little matrix
multiplication thingies and contributed small patches to various graphical
applications for Linux, including a newsreader, an instant messenger and a
mailer.

And I still insist that the majority of serious C work is done this way.
 
T

Toby A Inkster

Whitecrest said:
Who generated all the back end code? Not you.

You're right -- not me. I copied and pasted from an online source, then
removed the comments for brevity. But it wasn't automatically generated by
a whizzy whizzy, and it wouldn't have been difficult for me to have
written it myself as I have some experience in GTK development.
 
W

Whitecrest

amg39 said:
The main difference is that while graphics toolkits and OS apis have
proven themselves to be very useful in generating reliably workable
code....

Are you done being obtuse? Go back and re-read. The original Poster
compared the two. They said "if you are a C programmer you will know
that you don't use code generated by the development tool."

I said that was not true. Heres the funny part, youe and toby agree with
me. Yet continue to argue with me.....
 
W

Whitecrest

You're right -- not me. I copied and pasted from an online source, then
removed the comments for brevity. But it wasn't automatically generated by
a whizzy whizzy, and it wouldn't have been difficult for me to have
written it myself as I have some experience in GTK development.

You know perfectly well, that Visual C++, Borland C++ and GNU C++ all
generator code for you when you create a graphical application. And you
also know that you use the code it creates.
 
T

Toby A Inkster

Whitecrest said:
You know perfectly well, that Visual C++, Borland C++ and GNU C++ all
generator code for you when you create a graphical application.

The GNU C++ compiler is a non-interactive command line tool Whitecrest.
This is a concept almost diametrically opposed to WYSIWYG.
 
A

Andy Dingley

No one builds a GUI application in C without using a WYSIWYG generated
code.

Do you understand the difference between a class library and a WYSIWYG
tool ?
 
A

Andy Dingley

You know perfectly well, that Visual C++, Borland C++ and GNU C++ all
generator code for you when you create a graphical application.

No, Visual C++ does (which is one of its major faults - bloody M$oft
wizards) but Borland and GNU have a decent class library so that
"Hello World" is still a 3 line program, even under a GUI.
 
A

Andy Dingley

You have never created a dialog for one of your applications then?

Load of times. I use WYSIWYG. For GUI apps and a forms-based
interface, then this isn't a bad way to do it.

Then I usually re-write the code, because for all but the most trivial
dialogs, you need a form that's size-flexible and WYSIWYG generators
don't cope well with this, even for GUI apps.


I'm not even specifically against HTML WYSIWYG tools - it's just that
I haven't seen a half-decent one yet.
 
W

Whitecrest

The GNU C++ compiler is a non-interactive command line tool Whitecrest.

That comes with a WYSIWYG programming and debugging environment that
intelligent devlopers use....
 
W

Whitecrest

Do you understand the difference between a class library and a WYSIWYG
tool ?

Please tell me that Borland, and Microsoft and GUI developer interfaces
do not create any code for you when you build a GUI based application.

ESPECIALLY since that is one of the features that ALL of them BRAG about
being able to to. They all SIMPLIFY Windows ( read that GUI
application) development by writing the underlying code for you, so you
don't have to.
 
W

Whitecrest

No, Visual C++ does (which is one of its major faults - bloody M$oft
wizards) but Borland and GNU have a decent class library so that
"Hello World" is still a 3 line program, even under a GUI.

Horse shit. Please show your 3 line GUI based hello world application
that says hello world.
 
W

Whitecrest

Load of times. I use WYSIWYG. For GUI apps and a forms-based
interface, then this isn't a bad way to do it.

Finally you see the light.... (or have to admit you were wrong)
Then I usually re-write the code...

<cou...BULLSHIT...gh> If you have to re-write the code, then why the
hell do you even use the WYSIWYG editor at all? What is the purpose of
going through all the trouble of using the WYSIWYG interface, only to
delete it all and re-write it again correctly. Why not cut out the
middle man, and just write the entire thing in Notepad? The fact is you
really don't re-write it do you.... come on... be a big man, and fess
up....

Well it can only be one of three things now;

Either you don't re-write the code, but you are unwilling to lose face
by admitting I am right. (This is where I put my money by the way)

Or, you change the generic feel of the generated code, and fill in the
blanks because, the code to handle a button press event is generic and
always the same no matter who creates it. What happens when that event
is fired is the custom code we add to the application. But if you did
this then you would have to admit I was right about the code, and god
forbid you let that happen.....

Or, you really do re-write all the code, but then you are the most
inefficient developer to walk the planet. (I seriously doubt this one)

So which is it? The lady or the tiger?

Sorry, I am a pompous ass sometimes. (Sometimes?)
 
M

Mark Parnell

Whats your point. I still stand behind the WDG.

The WDG page doesn't say that a > in a comment is invalid, just that it
is not recommended, as some browsers get it wrong.

So you are both right (kind of). :)
 
A

Andy Dingley

Please tell me that Borland, and Microsoft and GUI developer interfaces
do not create any code for you when you build a GUI based application.

OK then, "Borland do not create any code for you when you build a GUI
based application."

OK, to be strictly accurate let's tighten that into, "Borland do not
_need_ to create any code for you when you build a GUI based
application, and they generally don't do it.."

I haven't written any C++ in years. I used to write Turbo Pascal (DOS
& Windows, but before Delphi), then I wrote VB, now I write Java. But
back in the day, the first real Borland Windows class library had a
minimal "Hello World" that was something like this:

function main ()
{
var app CWinApp;

app.init ();
app.print ('Hello World');
app.terminate ();
}

This gave you a one window program with some ugly static text on it.
There were no buttons, but the windows control buttons worked and it
would respond to a WM_CLOSE message. Anything else you needed, you
started subclassing things and over-riding the virtual methods that
were already hooked into the message handling loop.

The equivalent with VC++ was to knob around with a GUI wizard for a
bit, then press the button and have it spew out 20 pages of
unintelligible code.


Incidentally, my first Windows 3.0 programs were written under
extremely flakey early betas of TPW (Turbo Pascal) and pre-dated both
the OOP extensions to TP/DOS and any form of class library. I _have_
written enormous message handling loops in Notepad, because it's all
we had. It was horrible, and I'm not doing it again. But the solution
is to have a decent class library that's easy to use, not to build a
wizard that understands how to clean-slate the awkward stuff, but does
nothing to help maintenance.
 
O

Owen Jacobson

That comes with a WYSIWYG programming and debugging environment that
intelligent devlopers use....

It does?

I know there are a number of IDEs and WYSIWYG GUI tools that can
be layered on top of gcc and g++ but to my knowledge the actual gcc and
gcc-c++ packages do not contain an IDE. Further, the QT, GTK+ (KDE
and Gnome), and various other GUI libraries available for it mostly don't
come packaged with an IDE either. Glade and GTK+ ship separately.

Further, you started out arguing that everyone uses a WYSIWYG tool to make
their GUIs and are now arguing that all code generation falls under that
category, including, as far as I can tell, macro expansion and
function/method invocation.

Please choose an argument and then defend it carefully.
 
W

Whitecrest

Further, you started out arguing that everyone uses a WYSIWYG tool to make
their GUIs and are now arguing that all code generation falls under that
category, including, as far as I can tell, macro expansion and
function/method invocation.
Please choose an argument and then defend it carefully.

What are you talking about? Pay attention.
 

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