What does this mean??

[Sharp Tool]

That being said, I do understand that languages and computers are very

distinct, and not everyone has a grasp on both. I think it's good that
people whose English is less than perfect find their way to Usenet and try
their best to explain their problem, and I do try to help.

I agree. Despite (obviously, as from my earlier posts) being new to this
newsgroup, I've used Usenet for some time and web forums for even longer.
Although people who make honest grammatical/spelling mistakes shouldn't be
shunned (I've done it myself; "teh" instead of "the"), I think that people
who don't care enough to even try writing clearly are the same people who
don't care enough to try working out their own problems.

Posts that look like...
hey can some1 help me i cant get [put problem here] to wrok cause it doesnt
open rite
...probably aren't worth too much time.

However, if the content is still useful to a given community and it can be
deciphered, I've got to hand it to those who take the time to work out an
answer. Maybe posters will learn to write clearer, more relevant posts.

Of course, this thread might have evolved to be a bit OT for this newsgroup

If you want to reach a larger audience then please refrain from using
abbreviations (e.g., OT) as not everyone will be familar with them.

Sharp Tool

 

[Sharp Tool]

I think there are official charters. There are various descriptions
of the consensus of what the groups are for in various FAQs.

FAQs written by a single or a small group of authors do not represent the
whole Java community. Those FAQs are only there as a guide and certainly do
not represent the final word.

There are people who subscribe to only comp.lang.java. programmer.
They are busy people. They want to stay abreast of what's happening,
but have only a little time to do it. Threads about what *= means are
a total waste of their valuable time.

They are not obligated to answer any threads.

Sharp Tool

 

[Sharp Tool]

Hi everyone,


I mean seriously andrew everyone has had their share of stupid questions
but i asked that question because i have not done programming for some
time and got rusty.

occasions.

Actually i don't think you did andrew. You told me not to cross post to
other forums(which i did not) but you did not mention to me anything about
this as far as i know

I am trying to get back into programming after many years and i have
gotten abit rusty and hope that you guys won't take my questions as
wasting your time as i have no such intention

Richard West

Richard, the questions you asked are very basic and should have been asked
in the clj.help newsgroup... your bad. Not everyone will have the patience
for these types of questions in clj.programmer. This is a public newsgroup
so you can expect all types of characters here.

Sharp Tool

 

[Chris Uppal]

Of course, this thread might have evolved to be a bit OT for this
newsgroup

[....]
If you want to reach a larger audience then please refrain from using
abbreviations (e.g., OT) as not everyone will be familar with them.

Conversely, every social group (and some anti-social groups ;-) develops its
own slang. It's not often easy to tell whether the linguistic justification is
principally social (e.g. "people like us talk like us") or practical (people
who share an interest need more specialised vocabulary than is provided by the
wider language -- so they develop jargon). I think that a fair case can be
made that the classic Usenet abbreviations, OT, ISWIM, AFAIK, IIRC, IANAL, etc,
are not /just/ convenient contractions but are part of our social fabric here.
All IMO, of course...

You'll notice that contractions in general (u r g8) are viewed /very/
differently, which -- to my mind -- indicates that the issue is social rather
than merely reflecting the tension between the best convenience of the writer
vs. that of his/her readers.

-- chris

 

[Roedy Green]

FAQs written by a single or a small group of authors do not represent the
whole Java community. Those FAQs are only there as a guide and certainly do
not represent the final word.

The FAQs are probably more accurate than guesses by someone coming in
cold.

The entire newsgroup system works only because most of the time most
of the people keep mostly to common themes within each newsgroup.
Otherwise it would be pointless to subscribe to one.

It is an anarchy. This means no one is officially in charge. If
participants did not work to encourage sensible behaviour by group
pressure, it would fall into chaos.

Using the freeway analogy. You may be legally permitted to drive at
30 MPH, but then others are legally permitted to honk at you and give
you the finger, or point out the scenic route and people are permitted
to ignore you if they see you later stranded by the side of the road.

 

[zero]

I would not have guessed. You don't have an "accent". I don't
recognise .hi as a country code.

Well I don't like spam ;-)

I have been told I do have an accent when I speak. Lack of practice I
suppose, I type a lot more than I talk.

In case you were wondering, I'm from Belgium, mother tongue Dutch.

PS On the topic of spam: when I was first learning Java I wrote a spam
filter that used Bayesean filtering techniques. If you haven't checked it
out, I heartily recommend it - as long as you use each new mail you get to
continue training your filter.

 

[zero]

If you want to reach a larger audience then please refrain from using
abbreviations (e.g., OT) as not everyone will be familar with them.

Sharp Tool

www.acronymfinder.com
always helps me

 

[zero]

Using the freeway analogy. You may be legally permitted to drive at
30 MPH, but then others are legally permitted to honk at you and give
you the finger, or point out the scenic route and people are permitted
to ignore you if they see you later stranded by the side of the road.

really? Not here, on both accounts. There's a minimum speed on highways,
and flashing lights, giving the finger etc are illegal as well. Still
happens of course.

As for the FAQs, I think they are accepted by most of the community
members, though perhaps not all. I've seen many newsgroup FAQ be rejected
by the community, only to be posted again by the same individual the next
month.

I would suggest some tollerance. I see no reason to be personally offended
by any post that is not personally targetting you. If a post doesn't suit
your sense of what's right for a particular newsgroup the best thing to do
is ignore it. Failing that, a polite reply correcting the poster makes a
solid alternative. If the post really is offensive then perhaps an angry
reply is warranted - although most of the time that only makes it worse.

 

[Gordon Beaton]

What is the point of having two groups if you don't use them for
different purposes. The logical division, is beginner questions and
other questions.

That is just one of many possible logical distinctions, and judging
from the posts in both groups, not necessarily one that's obvious to
everyone.

The division between cljh and cljp is IMO unfortunate and
unsuccessful. The contain mostly the same kinds of discussions, and
seem to have the same readership.

We are the people running these newsgroups. There is no one here but
us chickens. So we should be the ones deciding as we go how we want
to use these tools.

Good luck herding those squirrels.

/gordon

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Rhino coughed up:

There is nothing "stupid" about his questions. They simply demonstrate his
inexperience with Java. There's nothing stupid about being new to Java; we
were all beginners once.


You appear to have more justification for these remarks. However, I don't
think of comp.lang.java.help as being reserved for "noobs" or those who
are
new to Java, Usenet or formulating intelligent questions. I don't consider
myself to fit into any of those categories but I post questions at
comp.lang.java.help occasionally when I want to discuss concepts or design
issues when I have gaps in my OO background, for instance. The atmosphere
seems a bit more patient and tolerant there while
comp.lang.java.programmer
sometimes seems frenzied and rude by comparison.

_You_ may want to relegate beginners to that newsgroup but I think it is a
bit presumptious of you to pretend to speak for the entire Java community
or
to be the final authority on what belongs in each newsgroup.

I agree. We have got to knock this off. There is nothing in the usenet
descriptions for c.l.j.help that relegates it to beginners. I have pointed
this out before, and have *backed away* from it believing in some sort of
"common usage". However, if people here are going to get all pissy about
toward newbies and where they belong, then I will in their defense get
equally pissy and point out the descriptions of the newsgroups established
by the closest thing there is to an authority in usenet.

A person knowing of this list, or looking at its listing elsewhere, would
see this, and not think twice about asking a beginner question in
c.l.j.programmer. Does it say *advanced* ? *No*.

group: news.announce.newgroups
subject: List of Big Eight Newsgroups

comp.lang.java.3d 3D Graphics API's for the Java language.
comp.lang.java.advocacy Support for and criticism of the Java System.
comp.lang.java.announce Announcements re the Java System. (Moderated)
comp.lang.java.beans Java software components (JavaBeans).
comp.lang.java.corba Topics relating to Java and CORBA.
comp.lang.java.databases Databases, java.sql, JDBC, ODBC.
comp.lang.java.gui GUI toolkits and windowing: AWT, IFC etc.
*comp.lang.java.help Set-up problems, catch-all first aid.*
comp.lang.java.machine JVM, native methods, hardware.
comp.lang.java.programmer Programming in the Java language.
comp.lang.java.security Security issues raised by Java.
comp.lang.java.softwaretools IDEs, browsers, compilers, other tools.

BUT FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAT THIS: This angry tone toward ignorant questions
claiming they are "stupid" has got to end.

There is nothing to be gained by making newbies afraid to ask questions.

....[rip]...

 

[Rhino]

Well I don't like spam ;-)

I have been told I do have an accent when I speak. Lack of practice I
suppose, I type a lot more than I talk.

In case you were wondering, I'm from Belgium, mother tongue Dutch.

I think _everyone_ has an accent whenever they speak, we're just not
conscious of it if we're in an environment of people with the same accent.

I'm Canadian. Back in high school, a new guy came to our school and spoke in
a distinctly different way. Perfectly understandable but different than the
rest of us. We asked Pete where he was from and it turned out he was born
and raised in Chicago. I think we remained quite conscious of his accent
over the years, although we never really talked about it or gave him any
grief about it. Then, one day, I asked him if we had an accent in his ears.
He said we did. If you think about it, this makes perfect sense: we didn't
pronounce things exactly the same way that people in Chicago did so, to his
ears, we WERE speaking with accents.

Rhino

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Roedy Green coughed up:

Just as people have different reactions to Sunday drivers so do they
to misplaced posts.

There is an advantage to the poster to put it in the proper place
with a distinctive subject line.

Like you said, there are charters. Look up the charter for .help.

....[rip]...

 

[Roedy Green]

If a post doesn't suit
your sense of what's right for a particular newsgroup the best thing to do
is ignore it.

I disagree. Not everyone has to jump on every infraction, but you
should not let all infractions pass. That is just inviting your
garden to turn to weeds. The Internet has plenty of newsgroups made
useless by excess tolerance. It requires balance. I think most people
goof out of ignorance or error. For those who resist just to annoy,
total shunning is best. They are doing it for attention.

 

[Roedy Green]

Then, one day, I asked him if we had an accent in his ears.
He said we did.

That reminds me when we were kids we had a Scottish relative come for
a visit. She tried to explain to us we had a Canadian accent. We were
skeptical. We asked her to talk in a Canadian accent. She did. We all
burst out laughing -- you're just talking "normally" we claimed
triumphantly, surprised she could do it when she put her mind to it.

Hugh Laurie, the actor who plays House, the diagnostic puzzle TV Show,
is a Brit who affects an American accent for the role.

I love asking people about their accents which I find endlessly
fascinating. So often when I ask "What other languages do you speak
besides English" the answer is "none". Accents are not always caused
by learning some other language first.

It is fun to be able to place people right to the city or to tell a
person what countries they have lived in. One of the fun ones its to
tell a Chinese person whose second language is English the nationality
of his original English teacher. It seems like some sort of ESP. I
went nuts on my visit to England asking people about their accents.
All the regional accents are so distinctive. There it is no great
skill to tell exactly where someone is from.

 

[Roedy Green]

However, if people here are going to get all pissy about
toward newbies and where they belong, then I will in their defense get
equally pissy and point out the descriptions of the newsgroups established
by the closest thing there is to an authority in usenet

The problem is c.l.j.p. is presumed to be a sort of an inner circle
where you need a Masonic ritual to be invited.

This provokes the chip on the shoulder attitude when a newbie gets
asked to take his questions to c.l.j.h. He feels like he is being
asked to sit at the children's table at Thanksgiving.

It is just a way of filing questions logically and also allowing
newbies to ignore advanced stuff and vice versa.

What is the point of having two groups if you don't use them for
different purposes. The logical division, is beginner questions and
other questions.

We are the people running these newsgroups. There is no one here but
us chickens. So we should be the ones deciding as we go how we want to
use these tools.

 

[Dave Glasser]

Just as people have different reactions to Sunday drivers so do they
to misplaced posts.

The big difference is that you have no choice whether or not the
Sunday driver impacts your life by wasting your time, whereas you do
with errant posters.

There is an advantage to the poster to put it in the proper place
with a distinctive subject line.

If someone later thinks of a solution to the problem, they will find
the thread more easily if it in the right place. If they can't easily
find it, they may give up, and OP will never hear the solution.

And it's no skin off my nose.

--
Check out QueryForm, a free, open source, Java/Swing-based
front end for relational databases.

http://qform.sourceforge.net

If you're a musician, check out RPitch Relative Pitch
Ear Training Software.

http://rpitch.sourceforge.net

 

[isamura]

:
: : >
: > Rectangle alloc = (a instanceof Rectangle) ? (Rectangle) a :
: > a.getBounds();
: >
: > Could someone translate the above code into simple java codings so i can
: > understand it
:
: Rectangle alloc ;
: if (a instanceof Rectangle) alloc = (Rectangle) a;
: else alloc = a.getBounds();
:

I didn't think this seemingly innocent question would stir up such lively reactions...

Actually I appreciate this helpful and more direct response. However, the question does bring up
some interesting points (for me anyway).

1. I don't see the benefits of using the first form syntax, in terms of code maintenance and
readability.

2. Why two forms that says the same thing? Perhaps the javac has an inferior complex and feels
better that it can process a more "advanced" form syntax <grin>?

3. The second form is more verbose, but so much easier to understand. I think the KISS principle
applies here and I will always use the second form.

my 2 cents

..K

 

[Timbo]

:
: : >
: > Rectangle alloc = (a instanceof Rectangle) ? (Rectangle) a :
: > a.getBounds();
: >
: > Could someone translate the above code into simple java codings so i can
: > understand it
:
: Rectangle alloc ;
: if (a instanceof Rectangle) alloc = (Rectangle) a;
: else alloc = a.getBounds();
:

I didn't think this seemingly innocent question would stir up such lively reactions...

Nor should it!

Actually I appreciate this helpful and more direct response. However, the question does bring up
some interesting points (for me anyway).

1. I don't see the benefits of using the first form syntax, in terms of code maintenance and
readability.

For the example in the original post, I agree with you here.
However, other times, I find the short hand quite useful. Consider
trying to find the absolute value of an integer, i:

final int abs = i > 0 ? i : -i;

I think this is nicer than the alternative:
final int abs;
if (i > 0) {
abs = i;
}
else {
abs = -i;
}

or even the more compect
final int abs;
if (i > 0) abs = i;
else abs = -i;

2. Why two forms that says the same thing? Perhaps the javac has an inferior complex and feels
better that it can process a more "advanced" form syntax <grin>?

A lot of programming language syntax is redundant. 'for' loops can
be expressions using 'while', but both are useful. I guess it's
all about giving the programmer options. If you don't like one
way, you can do it another.

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Roedy Green coughed up:

The problem is c.l.j.p. is presumed

No it isn't. You can create a list of the people who would like it that
way, but it does not make it "presumed" at large at all.

to be a sort of an inner circle
where you need a Masonic ritual to be invited.

This provokes the chip on the shoulder attitude when a newbie gets
asked to take his questions to c.l.j.h. He feels like he is being
asked to sit at the children's table at Thanksgiving.

It is just a way of filing questions logically and also allowing
newbies to ignore advanced stuff and vice versa.

What is the point of having two groups if you don't use them for
different purposes. The logical division, is beginner questions and
other questions.

We are the people running these newsgroups. There is no one here but
us chickens. So we should be the ones deciding as we go how we want to
use these tools.

Right. So all the newbies who post here are running these as well. The
denizens here have no authority nor high ground to stand on even informally.
Not even informally!

 

[Thomas G. Marshall]

Sharp Tool coughed up:

Richard, the questions you asked are very basic and should have been asked
in the clj.help newsgroup... your bad.

CRAP. Reread the charter.

Not everyone will have the patience
for these types of questions in clj.programmer. This is a public newsgroup
so you can expect all types of characters here.

You just killed your own argument. "This is a public newsgroup so you can
expect all types of characters here." INCLUDING NEWBIES.