what is best for web development??

Discussion in 'Python' started by ketulp_baroda@yahoo.com, Jan 10, 2004.

  1. Guest

    i am developing a web application and i am really confused on what should i use.
    should i use just python and use the cgi module availabe.
    Or should i use application like WebWare.Also there is PSP available.
    I am really confused and need help
     
    , Jan 10, 2004
    #1
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  2. Wilk Guest

    writes:

    > i am developing a web application and i am really confused on what should i use.
    > should i use just python and use the cgi module availabe.
    > Or should i use application like WebWare.Also there is PSP available.
    > I am really confused and need help


    It depends of the kind of application you want to do exactly, there are
    many possibilities from cgi to zope...

    Look into the archive of the list, you'll find a lot of answer to this
    question. Or describe more what you need.

    bye

    --
    Wilk - http://flibuste.net
     
    Wilk, Jan 10, 2004
    #2
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  3. ketulp> i am developing a web application and i am really confused on
    ketulp> what should i use. should i use just python and use the cgi
    ketulp> module availabe. Or should i use application like WebWare.Also
    ketulp> there is PSP available. I am really confused and need help

    As Wilk indicated, there are lots of options and you didn't say
    much/anything about your environment or requirements for your web app. If
    all your developers are mostly Python programmers, I think you might like
    Quixote. If you have a diverse group of people with different skills
    (programmers, web designers, marketing types), you might find Zope more to
    your liking. There are tons of other options as well. It all depends...

    Skip
     
    Skip Montanaro, Jan 10, 2004
    #3
  4. I've was faced to the same problem few months ago. After checked lot
    of different solutions, I've select Draco (draco.boskant.nl).

    A framework around mod_python that offers lot of flexibility and can
    be used for havy loaded web site.

    One of the nicest feature is the possibility to split code and HTML.

    I'm not objective, but I propose you to make your own choice amongst
    all the good solutions (karrigel, albatros are very good too), but
    have a look at draco.




    wrote in message news:<>...
    > i am developing a web application and i am really confused on what should i use.
    > should i use just python and use the cgi module availabe.
    > Or should i use application like WebWare.Also there is PSP available.
    > I am really confused and need help
     
    vincent delft, Jan 10, 2004
    #4
  5. |Thus Spake ketulp_barod On the now historical date of Sat, 10 Jan 2004
    03:58:09 -0800|

    > i am developing a web application and i am really confused on what
    > should i use. should i use just python and use the cgi module availabe.
    > Or should i use application like WebWare.Also there is PSP available. I
    > am really confused and need help


    Follow the advice given elsewhere in this thread, but also look at PHP,
    which is another web-programming language. It's not difficult to pick up
    if you have a grounding in C, and understand HTML, but it does have its
    issues. It is best for getting web pages to talk to databases. The
    nicest thing about it is that it was developed *for* creating dynamic
    web-pages, so it has a good tool-box for that sort of thing.

    HTH

    Sam Walters.

    --
    Never forget the halloween documents.
    http://www.opensource.org/halloween/
    """ Where will Microsoft try to drag you today?
    Do you really want to go there?"""
     
    Samuel Walters, Jan 11, 2004
    #5
  6. Guest

    Wilk <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > writes:
    >
    > > i am developing a web application and i am really confused on what should i use.
    > > should i use just python and use the cgi module availabe.
    > > Or should i use application like WebWare.Also there is PSP available.
    > > I am really confused and need help

    >
    > It depends of the kind of application you want to do exactly, there are
    > many possibilities from cgi to zope...
    >
    > Look into the archive of the list, you'll find a lot of answer to this
    > question. Or describe more what you need.
    >
    > bye



    hey thanks for ur reply
    i am developing an issue tracking system
    the primary requirements are
    1)it should be platform independent which i think python will take
    care of
    2)it should have customizable gui .I am thinking of using templates
    for this like Cheetah. Is there any other better solution to Cheetah?
    The problem i am facing here is i dont know what to use for
    development of the application. I came across many ways to develop web
    application in python which I already specified like
    i)the cgi module in python
    ii)Python Server Pages
    iii)Quixote
    iv)WebWare
    v)Zope etc.
    I want to choose such an environment so that i dont have to install
    other softwares to run my application.For eg. I think if I develop
    using zope then the client also has to install zope to run my software
    and i dont want this.
     
    , Jan 12, 2004
    #6
  7. Wilk Guest

    writes:

    > Wilk <> wrote in message news:<>...
    >> writes:
    >>
    >> > i am developing a web application and i am really confused on what should i use.
    >> > should i use just python and use the cgi module availabe.
    >> > Or should i use application like WebWare.Also there is PSP available.
    >> > I am really confused and need help

    >>
    >> It depends of the kind of application you want to do exactly, there are
    >> many possibilities from cgi to zope...
    >>
    >> Look into the archive of the list, you'll find a lot of answer to this
    >> question. Or describe more what you need.
    >>
    >> bye

    >
    >
    > hey thanks for ur reply
    > i am developing an issue tracking system


    There is one that you can look at : http://roundup.sf.net
    I think it can be used in standalone server or cgi.

    > the primary requirements are
    > 1)it should be platform independent which i think python will take
    > care of
    > 2)it should have customizable gui .I am thinking of using templates
    > for this like Cheetah. Is there any other better solution to Cheetah?


    There is no better solution than Cheetah : there is others solutions...

    > The problem i am facing here is i dont know what to use for
    > development of the application. I came across many ways to develop web
    > application in python which I already specified like
    > i)the cgi module in python
    > ii)Python Server Pages
    > iii)Quixote
    > iv)WebWare
    > v)Zope etc.
    > I want to choose such an environment so that i dont have to install
    > other softwares to run my application.For eg. I think if I develop
    > using zope then the client also has to install zope to run my software
    > and i dont want this.


    When you use one of theses servers, you don't need to install anything
    else than a classic browser on the client side.
    On the server side, most of the servers will not need anything else, you
    can even start without server with the batterie include :
    BasicHTTPServer (it was somes examples on this list somes days ago).

    bye

    --
    Wilk - http://flibuste.net
     
    Wilk, Jan 12, 2004
    #7
  8. Wilk <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > writes:
    >
    > > The problem i am facing here is i dont know what to use for
    > > development of the application. I came across many ways to develop web
    > > application in python which I already specified like
    > > i)the cgi module in python
    > > ii)Python Server Pages
    > > iii)Quixote
    > > iv)WebWare
    > > v)Zope etc.
    > > I want to choose such an environment so that i dont have to install
    > > other softwares to run my application.For eg. I think if I develop
    > > using zope then the client also has to install zope to run my software
    > > and i dont want this.

    >
    > When you use one of theses servers, you don't need to install anything
    > else than a classic browser on the client side.
    > On the server side, most of the servers will not need anything else, you
    > can even start without server with the batterie include :
    > BasicHTTPServer (it was somes examples on this list somes days ago).


    Just a guess, but I suspect the OP is using the term "client" in the
    business sense, not the client/server sense; that is, he's trying to
    write a Web application that is easy to deploy on his clients'
    (customers') servers.

    If it has to be a one-shot install, I would suggest a Web server
    written in Python -- Medusa or Twisted, probably -- that you could
    bundle with your Python app. Find a Web app framework that (a) works
    on Medusa or Twisted and (b) has the templating features you
    require/desire.

    I wouldn't jump at using Twisted's app framework (Woven?) on top of
    Twisted's Web server, though. No disrespect intended to the Twisted
    community or their great body of work; it's just that server and
    app-framework are two separate concerns: one day you might want to or
    need to switch Web servers, and you need to know that your framework
    is portable. I'm no Twisted expert: perhaps Woven is indeed portable,
    and a kindly Twisted person will elaborate here.

    -- Graham
     
    Graham Fawcett, Jan 12, 2004
    #8
  9. Graham Fawcett wrote:
    > Wilk <> wrote in message news:<>...
    >
    >> writes:
    >>
    >>
    >>>The problem i am facing here is i dont know what to use for
    >>>development of the application. I came across many ways to develop web
    >>>application in python which I already specified like
    >>>i)the cgi module in python
    >>>ii)Python Server Pages
    >>>iii)Quixote
    >>>iv)WebWare
    >>>v)Zope etc.
    >>>I want to choose such an environment so that i dont have to install
    >>>other softwares to run my application.For eg. I think if I develop
    >>>using zope then the client also has to install zope to run my software
    >>>and i dont want this.

    >>
    >>When you use one of theses servers, you don't need to install anything
    >>else than a classic browser on the client side.
    >>On the server side, most of the servers will not need anything else, you
    >>can even start without server with the batterie include :
    >>BasicHTTPServer (it was somes examples on this list somes days ago).

    >
    >
    > Just a guess, but I suspect the OP is using the term "client" in the
    > business sense, not the client/server sense; that is, he's trying to
    > write a Web application that is easy to deploy on his clients'
    > (customers') servers.
    >
    > If it has to be a one-shot install, I would suggest a Web server
    > written in Python -- Medusa or Twisted, probably -- that you could
    > bundle with your Python app. Find a Web app framework that (a) works
    > on Medusa or Twisted and (b) has the templating features you
    > require/desire.
    >
    > I wouldn't jump at using Twisted's app framework (Woven?) on top of
    > Twisted's Web server, though. No disrespect intended to the Twisted
    > community or their great body of work; it's just that server and
    > app-framework are two separate concerns: one day you might want to or
    > need to switch Web servers, and you need to know that your framework
    > is portable. I'm no Twisted expert: perhaps Woven is indeed portable,
    > and a kindly Twisted person will elaborate here.
    >
    > -- Graham


    You can use Woven with mod_proxy and Apache. Same with Woven's
    successor: Nevow, http://divmod.org/users/slyphon.twistd/nevow/moin.cgi/ .
     
    Jason Mobarak, Jan 13, 2004
    #9
  10. Jason Mobarak <> wrote in message news:<bu1buf$smq$>...
    > Graham Fawcett wrote:
    > > I wouldn't jump at using Twisted's app framework (Woven?) on top of
    > > Twisted's Web server, though. No disrespect intended to the Twisted
    > > community or their great body of work; it's just that server and
    > > app-framework are two separate concerns: one day you might want to or
    > > need to switch Web servers, and you need to know that your framework
    > > is portable. I'm no Twisted expert: perhaps Woven is indeed portable,
    > > and a kindly Twisted person will elaborate here.

    >
    > You can use Woven with mod_proxy and Apache. Same with Woven's
    > successor: Nevow, http://divmod.org/users/slyphon.twistd/nevow/moin.cgi/ .


    Thanks for clarifying this, Jason. I hereby retract my anti-Twisted statement! ;-)

    -- G
     
    Graham Fawcett, Jan 14, 2004
    #10
  11. Guest

    hi
    graham is right.I used the term "client" in the
    business sense, not the client/server sense; and i am trying to
    write a Web application that is easy to deploy on clients'
    (customers') servers.sorry for the confusion.
     
    , Jan 14, 2004
    #11
  12. Guest

    hi
    the application should work with Apache or IIS web server.
     
    , Jan 14, 2004
    #12
  13. (Graham Fawcett) wrote in message news:<>...
    > Wilk <> wrote in message news:<87oet9grqy.fsf@blakie.


    > If it has to be a one-shot install, I would suggest a Web server
    > written in Python -- Medusa or Twisted, probably -- that you could
    > bundle with your Python app. Find a Web app framework that (a) works
    > on Medusa or Twisted and (b) has the templating features you
    > require/desire.


    I would not recommend this. A distribution with an own apache server
    seems to be the best. It is easy to hide the setup and the customers
    know that there is a good working technologie behind the scenes. And
    it can be managed by every normal administrator. This is a very
    important point for larger customers.

    I would recommend webware+Fun Form Kit+cheeta together with apache.
     
    Lothar Scholz, Jan 14, 2004
    #13
  14. In article <>,
    Lothar Scholz <> wrote:
    > (Graham Fawcett) wrote in message
    >news:<>...
    >> Wilk <> wrote in message news:<87oet9grqy.fsf@blakie.

    >
    >> If it has to be a one-shot install, I would suggest a Web server
    >> written in Python -- Medusa or Twisted, probably -- that you could
    >> bundle with your Python app. Find a Web app framework that (a) works
    >> on Medusa or Twisted and (b) has the templating features you
    >> require/desire.

    >
    >I would not recommend this. A distribution with an own apache server
    >seems to be the best. It is easy to hide the setup and the customers
    >know that there is a good working technologie behind the scenes. And
    >it can be managed by every normal administrator. This is a very
    >important point for larger customers.
    >
    >I would recommend webware+Fun Form Kit+cheeta together with apache.


    I'm unsure what you're recommending. We're considering a self-contained
    Web application, including the Web server itself. Are you proposing:
    1. An installer which does a conventional Apache
    installation, except with enough stuff confi-
    gured so it comes up in a safe state, PLUS
    a separate installation segment just for the
    Python-based part; or
    2. A custom installer which knows internal details
    of both Apache and the Python-based application?

    What advantage do you see for either of these over the pure-Python ap-
    proach suggested above? Is your point that customers feel more
    comfortable with "Apache inside"?
    --

    Cameron Laird <>
    Business: http://www.Phaseit.net
     
    Cameron Laird, Jan 14, 2004
    #14
  15. (Lothar Scholz) wrote in message news:<>...
    > (Graham Fawcett) wrote in message news:<>...
    > > Wilk <> wrote in message news:<87oet9grqy.fsf@blakie.

    >
    > > If it has to be a one-shot install, I would suggest a Web server
    > > written in Python -- Medusa or Twisted, probably -- that you could
    > > bundle with your Python app. Find a Web app framework that (a) works
    > > on Medusa or Twisted and (b) has the templating features you
    > > require/desire.

    >
    > I would not recommend this. A distribution with an own apache server
    > seems to be the best. It is easy to hide the setup and the customers
    > know that there is a good working technologie behind the scenes. And
    > it can be managed by every normal administrator. This is a very
    > important point for larger customers.


    Therefore, you are suggesting ASP running on IIS? Or JSP + SunONE +
    Oracle? <0.5 wink> Few Python solutions would satisfy the customer who
    bears this level of concern.

    There are countless potential customers for Intranet applications who
    will never be able to install Apache. Many of them will never meet a
    "normal administrator" -- by which I assume you mean the "FOSS-savvy,
    got Knoppix right here on my keydrive" variety, not the
    MS/Lotus/Netware kind -- let alone employ one. They still deserve and
    will pay for Intranet apps, and the company that can deliver and
    deploy them easily will have a business advantage.

    (I will never forget the first time I delivered such an app to a
    client, and told him "just run the setup program", and he had a fully
    functional Web app -- Web server, database and all -- running 40
    seconds later. Nor will I forget the funny sound his jaw made as it
    hit the floor.)

    Lastly, almost any app that will run on a Python web server will also
    run on Apache et. al., right? Unless you design it with Apache-centric
    features; but I don't know if your concerned customer would appreciate
    unnecessary platform lock-in! Offer both a Quick-Start and an FCGI
    flavour of your app, and let the customer decide what he's capable of
    administering.

    In my book, an application that scales down (embedded httpd) as well
    as up (Apache, etc.) beats a scaled-up-and-nowhere-to-go app any day.

    Best wishes,

    -- G
     
    Graham Fawcett, Jan 15, 2004
    #15
  16. Guest

    We're not considering a self-contained Web application, including the
    Web server itself. The Web server could be any Apache , IIS or the
    python ones. It depends on the customer.

    (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<>...
    > In article <>,
    > Lothar Scholz <> wrote:
    > > (Graham Fawcett) wrote in message
    > >news:<>...
    > >> Wilk <> wrote in message news:<87oet9grqy.fsf@blakie.

    >
    > >> If it has to be a one-shot install, I would suggest a Web server
    > >> written in Python -- Medusa or Twisted, probably -- that you could
    > >> bundle with your Python app. Find a Web app framework that (a) works
    > >> on Medusa or Twisted and (b) has the templating features you
    > >> require/desire.

    > >
    > >I would not recommend this. A distribution with an own apache server
    > >seems to be the best. It is easy to hide the setup and the customers
    > >know that there is a good working technologie behind the scenes. And
    > >it can be managed by every normal administrator. This is a very
    > >important point for larger customers.
    > >
    > >I would recommend webware+Fun Form Kit+cheeta together with apache.

    >
    > I'm unsure what you're recommending. We're considering a self-contained
    > Web application, including the Web server itself. Are you proposing:
    > 1. An installer which does a conventional Apache
    > installation, except with enough stuff confi-
    > gured so it comes up in a safe state, PLUS
    > a separate installation segment just for the
    > Python-based part; or
    > 2. A custom installer which knows internal details
    > of both Apache and the Python-based application?
    >
    > What advantage do you see for either of these over the pure-Python ap-
    > proach suggested above? Is your point that customers feel more
    > comfortable with "Apache inside"?
     
    , Jan 15, 2004
    #16
  17. (Cameron Laird) wrote in message news:<>...
    >
    > I'm unsure what you're recommending. We're considering a self-contained
    > Web application, including the Web server itself. Are you proposing:
    > 1. An installer which does a conventional Apache
    > installation, except with enough stuff confi-
    > gured so it comes up in a safe state, PLUS
    > a separate installation segment just for the
    > Python-based part; or
    > 2. A custom installer which knows internal details
    > of both Apache and the Python-based application?
    >
    > What advantage do you see for either of these over the pure-Python ap-
    > proach suggested above? Is your point that customers feel more
    > comfortable with "Apache inside"?


    I would use (2), simply because (1) could have influences with an
    existing installation. I hate the window programs who install
    apache/php and kill my machine (like Numegas PHPEd or Magumas older
    version). Such an installation should never use the standart paths,
    ports or anything else.

    And yes "Apache inside" is a very good marketing argument. Apache has
    proven to be robust to most of the denial of service attacks and if
    there is a good administrator in the company he can update it easily
    with security patches.

    I found that companies that are sensitive to security issues try to
    avoid home grown server as much as possible.
     
    Lothar Scholz, Jan 15, 2004
    #17
  18. aj Guest

    hi
    i am a newbi to python and developing a web application
    what do u all think is the best application framework for developing
    web application in python. I want a framework that supports
    templates,database connectivity, is available for both unix and
    windows.
    Zope
    Quixote
    Draco or others
    I read some stuff about all these frameworks and i think zope is a good one
    But wanna know what you all think


    Wilk <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > writes:
    >
    > > Wilk <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > >> writes:
    > >>
    > >> > i am developing a web application and i am really confused on what should i use.
    > >> > should i use just python and use the cgi module availabe.
    > >> > Or should i use application like WebWare.Also there is PSP available.
    > >> > I am really confused and need help
    > >>
    > >> It depends of the kind of application you want to do exactly, there are
    > >> many possibilities from cgi to zope...
    > >>
    > >> Look into the archive of the list, you'll find a lot of answer to this
    > >> question. Or describe more what you need.
    > >>
    > >> bye

    > >
    > >
    > > hey thanks for ur reply
    > > i am developing an issue tracking system

    >
    > There is one that you can look at : http://roundup.sf.net
    > I think it can be used in standalone server or cgi.
    >
    > > the primary requirements are
    > > 1)it should be platform independent which i think python will take
    > > care of
    > > 2)it should have customizable gui .I am thinking of using templates
    > > for this like Cheetah. Is there any other better solution to Cheetah?

    >
    > There is no better solution than Cheetah : there is others solutions...
    >
    > > The problem i am facing here is i dont know what to use for
    > > development of the application. I came across many ways to develop web
    > > application in python which I already specified like
    > > i)the cgi module in python
    > > ii)Python Server Pages
    > > iii)Quixote
    > > iv)WebWare
    > > v)Zope etc.
    > > I want to choose such an environment so that i dont have to install
    > > other softwares to run my application.For eg. I think if I develop
    > > using zope then the client also has to install zope to run my software
    > > and i dont want this.

    >
    > When you use one of theses servers, you don't need to install anything
    > else than a classic browser on the client side.
    > On the server side, most of the servers will not need anything else, you
    > can even start without server with the batterie include :
    > BasicHTTPServer (it was somes examples on this list somes days ago).
    >
    > bye
     
    aj, Jan 15, 2004
    #18
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