What is the most simple, quicket, yet most powerful pythonWeb-Framework?

Discussion in 'Python' started by xkenneth, Feb 6, 2008.

  1. xkenneth

    xkenneth Guest

    All,

    I'm trying to build a simple web application, but i still need
    things like sessions and Ajax. I tried to create a Zope product, but I
    honestly can't think of anything more cryptic. I really don't enjoy
    learning all of the "magic code" and debugging an environment I have
    to study to know the slightest thing about.

    I'm looking for simple, fast, and easy. I'm both a manager and a
    developer, so I don't have a lot of time to try things out and see
    what fits best. I need a solution i can implement well and with a
    great deal of speed.

    My project is going to be rather simple, just some simple forms
    for setup/configuration, user management, I assume I'll need
    templates, I'd like to use Ajax or a similar technology to display
    orthogonal and polar graphs that automatically update. For the DB
    backend I'm planning on using ZODB. ZODB is actually quite amazing,
    and after using it, I honestly can't think of a reason for using a SQL
    database.

    All help is appreciated! Let me know if you have any questions.

    Regards,
    Kenneth Miller
     
    xkenneth, Feb 6, 2008
    #1
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  2. xkenneth

    Steve Holden Guest

    xkenneth wrote:
    > All,
    >
    > I'm trying to build a simple web application, but i still need
    > things like sessions and Ajax. I tried to create a Zope product, but I
    > honestly can't think of anything more cryptic. I really don't enjoy
    > learning all of the "magic code" and debugging an environment I have
    > to study to know the slightest thing about.
    >
    > I'm looking for simple, fast, and easy. I'm both a manager and a
    > developer, so I don't have a lot of time to try things out and see
    > what fits best. I need a solution i can implement well and with a
    > great deal of speed.
    >
    > My project is going to be rather simple, just some simple forms
    > for setup/configuration, user management, I assume I'll need
    > templates, I'd like to use Ajax or a similar technology to display
    > orthogonal and polar graphs that automatically update. For the DB
    > backend I'm planning on using ZODB. ZODB is actually quite amazing,
    > and after using it, I honestly can't think of a reason for using a SQL
    > database.
    >
    > All help is appreciated! Let me know if you have any questions.
    >

    My question is: "What makes you think that there is a royal road to web
    development?"

    You have already chosen some technology (Ajax and ZODB) without any
    apparent justification. Why not just consult your prejudices for the
    others as well. Come to that, why is it even necessary to select a
    Python-based solution?

    I could say "Django can do everything you need from your description of
    your requirements", but then you'd be disappointed that it does in fact
    take time to learn how to do things in Django. Just like it does in any
    other complex framework.

    regards
    Steve
    --
    Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
    Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
     
    Steve Holden, Feb 6, 2008
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. xkenneth wrote:

    > For the DB backend I'm planning on using ZODB. ZODB is actually
    > quite amazing, and after using it, I honestly can't think of a
    > reason for using a SQL database.


    Well, one reason is that this probably rules out most of your options
    since most web frameworks include (or integrate with) an ORM layer,
    which in turn talks to a (relational) database. If you're sold on
    ZODB, you may want to evaluate Grok [1], a Web framework built on top
    of Zope 3 that doesn't seem to require knowledge of Zope internals.

    HTH,
    George

    [1] http://grok.zope.org/
     
    George Sakkis, Feb 6, 2008
    #3
  4. xkenneth

    Guest

    On Feb 5, 10:04 pm, xkenneth <> wrote:
    > All,
    >
    > I'm trying to build a simple web application, but i still need
    > things like sessions and Ajax. I tried to create a Zope product, but I
    > honestly can't think of anything more cryptic. I really don't enjoy
    > learning all of the "magic code" and debugging an environment I have
    > to study to know the slightest thing about.
    >
    > I'm looking for simple, fast, and easy. I'm both a manager and a
    > developer, so I don't have a lot of time to try things out and see
    > what fits best. I need a solution i can implement well and with a
    > great deal of speed.
    >
    > My project is going to be rather simple, just some simple forms
    > for setup/configuration, user management, I assume I'll need
    > templates, I'd like to use Ajax or a similar technology to display
    > orthogonal and polar graphs that automatically update. For the DB
    > backend I'm planning on using ZODB. ZODB is actually quite amazing,
    > and after using it, I honestly can't think of a reason for using a SQL
    > database.
    >
    > All help is appreciated! Let me know if you have any questions.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Kenneth Miller


    Personally I really like Turbogears (http://turbogears.org/) I don't
    know anything about ZODB but it works well with MySQL and is very easy
    to use if you understand python and web programming (I came over from
    PHP and C#).
     
    , Feb 6, 2008
    #4
  5. xkenneth

    xkenneth Guest

    > My question is: "What makes you think that there is a royal road to web
    > development?"

    I don't, I was just hoping there was something I was missing, or more
    simple than anything I'd experienced.

    >
    > You have already chosen some technology (Ajax and ZODB) without any
    > apparent justification.

    I've chosen Ajax for it's asynchronous nature. Alot of the data I'm
    going to be displayed needs to be updated immediately as it comes in.
    I've chosen ZODB because of the way it operates. I really enjoy the
    flexibility of an object-oriented database as well as the ZEO server,
    which will allow me to exactly what I need to do.

    Why not just consult your prejudices for the
    > others as well.

    I haven't made any decisions as to the technology I'm going to use
    with prejudice, I simply failed to explain properly why I chose those
    technologies.

    > Come to that, why is it even necessary to select a
    > Python-based solution?

    Most of my codebase is currently in python. I use python to do things
    like data acquisiton and signal processing. I'm very familiar with
    python, and I enjoy developing in it. Python has the technologies
    available to it that allow to do what I want to do.
    >
    > I could say "Django can do everything you need from your description of
    > your requirements", but then you'd be disappointed that it does in fact
    > take time to learn how to do things in Django. Just like it does in any
    > other complex framework.

    Thanks.
    >
    > regards
    > Steve
    > --
    > Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
    > Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/


    Regards,
    Kenneth Miller
     
    xkenneth, Feb 6, 2008
    #5
  6. xkenneth

    xkenneth Guest

    On Feb 5, 9:33 pm, xkenneth <> wrote:
    > > My question is: "What makes you think that there is a royal road to web
    > > development?"

    >
    > I don't, I was just hoping there was something I was missing, or more
    > simple than anything I'd experienced.
    >
    >
    >
    > > You have already chosen some technology (Ajax and ZODB) without any
    > > apparent justification.

    >
    > I've chosen Ajax for it's asynchronous nature. Alot of the data I'm
    > going to be displayed needs to be updated immediately as it comes in.
    > I've chosen ZODB because of the way it operates. I really enjoy the
    > flexibility of an object-oriented database as well as the ZEO server,
    > which will allow me to exactly what I need to do.
    >
    > Why not just consult your prejudices for the> others as well.
    >
    > I haven't made any decisions as to the technology I'm going to use
    > with prejudice, I simply failed to explain properly why I chose those
    > technologies.
    >
    > > Come to that, why is it even necessary to select a
    > > Python-based solution?

    >
    > Most of my codebase is currently in python. I use python to do things
    > like data acquisiton and signal processing. I'm very familiar with
    > python, and I enjoy developing in it. Python has the technologies
    > available to it that allow to do what I want to do.
    >
    >

    By the way, thanks to all who replied!

    >
    > > I could say "Django can do everything you need from your description of
    > > your requirements", but then you'd be disappointed that it does in fact
    > > take time to learn how to do things in Django. Just like it does in any
    > > other complex framework.

    > Thanks.
    >
    > > regards
    > > Steve
    > > --
    > > Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
    > > Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/

    >
    > Regards,
    > Kenneth Miller
     
    xkenneth, Feb 6, 2008
    #6
  7. xkenneth

    Steve Holden Guest

    xkenneth wrote:
    >> My question is: "What makes you think that there is a royal road to web
    >> development?"

    > I don't, I was just hoping there was something I was missing, or more
    > simple than anything I'd experienced.
    >
    >> You have already chosen some technology (Ajax and ZODB) without any
    >> apparent justification.

    > I've chosen Ajax for it's asynchronous nature. Alot of the data I'm
    > going to be displayed needs to be updated immediately as it comes in.
    > I've chosen ZODB because of the way it operates. I really enjoy the
    > flexibility of an object-oriented database as well as the ZEO server,
    > which will allow me to exactly what I need to do.
    >
    > Why not just consult your prejudices for the
    >> others as well.

    > I haven't made any decisions as to the technology I'm going to use
    > with prejudice, I simply failed to explain properly why I chose those
    > technologies.
    >
    >> Come to that, why is it even necessary to select a
    >> Python-based solution?

    > Most of my codebase is currently in python. I use python to do things
    > like data acquisiton and signal processing. I'm very familiar with
    > python, and I enjoy developing in it. Python has the technologies
    > available to it that allow to do what I want to do.
    >> I could say "Django can do everything you need from your description of
    >> your requirements", but then you'd be disappointed that it does in fact
    >> take time to learn how to do things in Django. Just like it does in any
    >> other complex framework.

    > Thanks.


    From what you've said then you probably *would* get along with Grok,
    but I am not sure that too much Ajax has been incorporated yet.

    As far as I know (and it's difficult to track everything webby in
    Python, there's so much) TurboGears and Pylons (eventually to be
    integrated, I understand) seem to have gone furthest to integrate Ajax
    into the framework.

    You are probably better decoupling the Ajax and the content parts, as
    most Ajax toolkits are designed to be dropped in to any HTML-based
    environment. I quite like MochiKit, but that's mostly about overcoming
    the deficiencies of the JavaScript language. Toolkits like ToscaWidgets
    will coexist with it quite nicely, and can be used with most web
    application frameworks.

    regards
    Steve
    --
    Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
    Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
     
    Steve Holden, Feb 6, 2008
    #7
  8. xkenneth

    Steve Holden Guest

    xkenneth wrote:
    >> My question is: "What makes you think that there is a royal road to web
    >> development?"

    > I don't, I was just hoping there was something I was missing, or more
    > simple than anything I'd experienced.
    >
    >> You have already chosen some technology (Ajax and ZODB) without any
    >> apparent justification.

    > I've chosen Ajax for it's asynchronous nature. Alot of the data I'm
    > going to be displayed needs to be updated immediately as it comes in.
    > I've chosen ZODB because of the way it operates. I really enjoy the
    > flexibility of an object-oriented database as well as the ZEO server,
    > which will allow me to exactly what I need to do.
    >
    > Why not just consult your prejudices for the
    >> others as well.

    > I haven't made any decisions as to the technology I'm going to use
    > with prejudice, I simply failed to explain properly why I chose those
    > technologies.
    >
    >> Come to that, why is it even necessary to select a
    >> Python-based solution?

    > Most of my codebase is currently in python. I use python to do things
    > like data acquisiton and signal processing. I'm very familiar with
    > python, and I enjoy developing in it. Python has the technologies
    > available to it that allow to do what I want to do.
    >> I could say "Django can do everything you need from your description of
    >> your requirements", but then you'd be disappointed that it does in fact
    >> take time to learn how to do things in Django. Just like it does in any
    >> other complex framework.

    > Thanks.


    From what you've said then you probably *would* get along with Grok,
    but I am not sure that too much Ajax has been incorporated yet.

    As far as I know (and it's difficult to track everything webby in
    Python, there's so much) TurboGears and Pylons (eventually to be
    integrated, I understand) seem to have gone furthest to integrate Ajax
    into the framework.

    You are probably better decoupling the Ajax and the content parts, as
    most Ajax toolkits are designed to be dropped in to any HTML-based
    environment. I quite like MochiKit, but that's mostly about overcoming
    the deficiencies of the JavaScript language. Toolkits like ToscaWidgets
    will coexist with it quite nicely, and can be used with most web
    application frameworks.

    regards
    Steve
    --
    Steve Holden +1 571 484 6266 +1 800 494 3119
    Holden Web LLC http://www.holdenweb.com/
     
    Steve Holden, Feb 6, 2008
    #8
  9. Re: What is the most simple, quicket, yet most powerful python Web-Framework?

    xkenneth a ├ęcrit :
    > All,
    >
    > I'm trying to build a simple web application, but i still need
    > things like sessions and Ajax. I tried to create a Zope product, but I
    > honestly can't think of anything more cryptic.


    Indeed !-)

    > I really don't enjoy
    > learning all of the "magic code" and debugging an environment I have
    > to study to know the slightest thing about.
    >
    > I'm looking for simple, fast, and easy. I'm both a manager and a
    > developer, so I don't have a lot of time to try things out and see
    > what fits best. I need a solution i can implement well and with a
    > great deal of speed.
    >
    > My project is going to be rather simple, just some simple forms
    > for setup/configuration, user management, I assume I'll need
    > templates,


    Then I'd recommand Django: clean, easy to get started with yet still
    powerful, well documented, strong community. You'll also get some basic
    user management and simple yet very usable and useful automatic admin
    forms for free.

    > I'd like to use Ajax or a similar technology to display
    > orthogonal and polar graphs that automatically update.


    This is mostly orthogonal to the framework.

    > For the DB
    > backend I'm planning on using ZODB. ZODB is actually quite amazing,
    > and after using it, I honestly can't think of a reason for using a SQL
    > database.


    Having working experience with both the ZODB and various SQL DBMS, I can
    think of quite a lot of pretty good reasons to use a SQL database, and
    quite a lot of good reasons to avoid the ZODB unless you pretty well
    know what you're doing. Don't get me wrong: the ZODB is a pretty good
    piece of software, and there are some use case for it. But since you're
    talking about "orthogonal and polar graphs" - which to me implies lot of
    small, atomic, highly structured data -, I don't think an OODB would fit
    here.
     
    Bruno Desthuilliers, Feb 6, 2008
    #9
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