What should i start off with

Discussion in 'Ruby' started by Peter Manning, Jan 2, 2007.

  1. Hi,

    I thought I was going to learn using Ruby On Rails, but it seems like
    its the wrong tool for me. It seems like Ruby On Rails is for people who
    wants to create quick website-applications and genrally 'website-stuff'.
    What I want to do is to make _real_ programs. By that I mean things like
    editors, browsers, Calculatores, drawing programs, etc. So therefore my
    question is: What should I start learning?

    I think i should inform you that I already know programming _very_ small
    console programs in Ruby (I have made a calculator, and a very basic
    editor). I started off 2 weeks ago and im an earlier PHP-programmer so
    im not 'new in business'.

    I have looked on Gtk and Tk because it seems like thats the tool i need
    to create 'real' programs. The problem is that i dont really like either
    of them. Is there any other modern option insted of the 'old school
    tools'? :)

    Thanks!

    --
    Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
    Peter Manning, Jan 2, 2007
    #1
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  2. The names for 'real' programs varies, but I think you'll generally get
    by with a term such as 'windowed applications.' Terms such as 'thick'
    and 'GUI' are also used, but could probably lead to some ambiguity.

    To get you started:
    http://wiki.rubygarden.org/Ruby/page/show/ComparingGuiToolkits/TakeTwo
    (Note it's 2 years old, so apply salt as necessary.)

    Though it'd help to know what about GTK and Tk you disliked.

    Devin
    Devin Mullins, Jan 2, 2007
    #2
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  3. Devin Mullins wrote:
    > The names for 'real' programs varies, but I think you'll generally get
    > by with a term such as 'windowed applications.' Terms such as 'thick'
    > and 'GUI' are also used, but could probably lead to some ambiguity.
    >
    > To get you started:
    > http://wiki.rubygarden.org/Ruby/page/show/ComparingGuiToolkits/TakeTwo
    > (Note it's 2 years old, so apply salt as necessary.)
    >


    Thank you very much, I will read it as soon as possible (Its 04:45 in
    Denmark right now - And im tired :))

    > Though it'd help to know what about GTK and Tk you disliked.
    >
    > Devin


    Well, its not that much the structure, but the fact that its old, and
    useless unless your a windows guy. I want something that works
    cross-browser (and by that i mean Ie/Safari/xxx).

    A last question, is there any options to make GUI programming easier,
    and faster. A tool like Ruby On Rails, just for GUI programming?
    Even though ruby doesnt demand as much lines as c++ for an example, it
    is still many lines you have to write before something happends when you
    use GUI tools.
    - alright, i have an other tiny question: Can _you_ suggest any GUI
    tools, that are up-to-date that you have tried?

    --
    Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
    Peter Manning, Jan 2, 2007
    #3
  4. Peter Manning

    Mat Schaffer Guest

    On Jan 1, 2007, at 10:55 PM, Peter Manning wrote:
    > A last question, is there any options to make GUI programming easier,
    > and faster. A tool like Ruby On Rails, just for GUI programming?
    > Even though ruby doesnt demand as much lines as c++ for an example, it
    > is still many lines you have to write before something happends
    > when you
    > use GUI tools.


    If you're interested in RoR's data handling features, you might want
    to consider using activerecord with sqlite in the context of a GUI
    application. You can also use activesupport from rails to get some
    of the neat features like '3.days.ago'. Or even use the whole rails
    stack. I've been doing this for CLI applications for awhile.
    Although it takes a bit of time to load the rails environment, it's
    often worth the added functionality.
    -Mat
    Mat Schaffer, Jan 2, 2007
    #4
  5. Peter Manning

    matt Guest

    www.wxwidgets.org

    They have GUI bindings in a number of languages (including Ruby)

    So if you like Ruby, and want to develop "real" applications, that is an
    excellent way to go.

    Matt



    On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 12:55 +0900, Peter Manning wrote:
    > Devin Mullins wrote:
    > > The names for 'real' programs varies, but I think you'll generally get
    > > by with a term such as 'windowed applications.' Terms such as 'thick'
    > > and 'GUI' are also used, but could probably lead to some ambiguity.
    > >
    > > To get you started:
    > > http://wiki.rubygarden.org/Ruby/page/show/ComparingGuiToolkits/TakeTwo
    > > (Note it's 2 years old, so apply salt as necessary.)
    > >

    >
    > Thank you very much, I will read it as soon as possible (Its 04:45 in
    > Denmark right now - And im tired :))
    >
    > > Though it'd help to know what about GTK and Tk you disliked.
    > >
    > > Devin

    >
    > Well, its not that much the structure, but the fact that its old, and
    > useless unless your a windows guy. I want something that works
    > cross-browser (and by that i mean Ie/Safari/xxx).
    >
    > A last question, is there any options to make GUI programming easier,
    > and faster. A tool like Ruby On Rails, just for GUI programming?
    > Even though ruby doesnt demand as much lines as c++ for an example, it
    > is still many lines you have to write before something happends when you
    > use GUI tools.
    > - alright, i have an other tiny question: Can _you_ suggest any GUI
    > tools, that are up-to-date that you have tried?
    >
    matt, Jan 2, 2007
    #5
  6. Peter Manning

    Tony Muler Guest

    Peter Manning wrote:
    > Devin Mullins wrote:
    >>Though it'd help to know what about GTK and Tk you disliked.
    >>
    >>Devin

    >
    > Well, its not that much the structure, but the fact that its old, and
    > useless unless your a windows guy. I want something that works
    > cross-browser (and by that i mean Ie/Safari/xxx).


    Correct me if I mis-interpret what you are writing,
    but if you want to make it cross-browser this means
    that you are still talking about web applications
    while your initial post looked more like you want
    to build standalone applications / fat clients.

    I do not have so much experience with RoR, but
    what is wrong about it, especially when making use
    of AJAX for enriching your "real programmes".
    Tony Muler, Jan 2, 2007
    #6
  7. Peter Manning

    vasudevram Guest

    matt wrote:
    > www.wxwidgets.org
    >
    > They have GUI bindings in a number of languages (including Ruby)
    >
    > So if you like Ruby, and want to develop "real" applications, that is an
    > excellent way to go.
    >
    > Matt
    >
    >
    >
    > On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 12:55 +0900, Peter Manning wrote:
    > > Devin Mullins wrote:
    > > > The names for 'real' programs varies, but I think you'll generally get
    > > > by with a term such as 'windowed applications.' Terms such as 'thick'
    > > > and 'GUI' are also used, but could probably lead to some ambiguity.
    > > >
    > > > To get you started:
    > > > http://wiki.rubygarden.org/Ruby/page/show/ComparingGuiToolkits/TakeTwo
    > > > (Note it's 2 years old, so apply salt as necessary.)
    > > >

    > >
    > > Thank you very much, I will read it as soon as possible (Its 04:45 in
    > > Denmark right now - And im tired :))
    > >
    > > > Though it'd help to know what about GTK and Tk you disliked.
    > > >
    > > > Devin

    > >
    > > Well, its not that much the structure, but the fact that its old, and
    > > useless unless your a windows guy. I want something that works
    > > cross-browser (and by that i mean Ie/Safari/xxx).
    > >
    > > A last question, is there any options to make GUI programming easier,
    > > and faster. A tool like Ruby On Rails, just for GUI programming?
    > > Even though ruby doesnt demand as much lines as c++ for an example, it
    > > is still many lines you have to write before something happends when you
    > > use GUI tools.
    > > - alright, i have an other tiny question: Can _you_ suggest any GUI
    > > tools, that are up-to-date that you have tried?
    > >


    Qt is another very good GUI toolkit. You can use it directly from C++
    or use it from Python with PyQt. Its now open source as well as
    commercial (a paid license) on both Windows and Linux, if I remember -
    this was with the release of Qt 4. Good if you want to develop
    cross-platform GUI apps in C++. Paid version is expensive for an
    individual developer, though.

    Vasudev Ram
    www.dancingbison.com
    vasudevram, Jan 2, 2007
    #7
  8. Peter Manning

    Kalman Noel Guest

    Peter Manning:
    > Devin Mullins wrote:
    >> Though it'd help to know what about GTK and Tk you disliked.

    > Well, its not that much the structure, but the fact that its old, and
    > useless unless your a windows guy.


    Note that Gtk and Tk are not related in any way to MS products.

    > I want something that works
    > cross-browser (and by that i mean Ie/Safari/xxx).


    I'm confused. Are you interested in programming for the web/for browser
    use, or in programming with a GUI toolkit?

    Kalman
    Kalman Noel, Jan 2, 2007
    #8
  9. Peter Manning

    Guest

    vasudevram wrote:
    > matt wrote:
    > > www.wxwidgets.org
    > >
    > > They have GUI bindings in a number of languages (including Ruby)
    > >
    > > So if you like Ruby, and want to develop "real" applications, that is an
    > > excellent way to go.
    > >
    > > Matt
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > On Tue, 2007-01-02 at 12:55 +0900, Peter Manning wrote:
    > > > Devin Mullins wrote:
    > > > > The names for 'real' programs varies, but I think you'll generally get
    > > > > by with a term such as 'windowed applications.' Terms such as 'thick'
    > > > > and 'GUI' are also used, but could probably lead to some ambiguity.
    > > > >
    > > > > To get you started:
    > > > > http://wiki.rubygarden.org/Ruby/page/show/ComparingGuiToolkits/TakeTwo
    > > > > (Note it's 2 years old, so apply salt as necessary.)
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > Thank you very much, I will read it as soon as possible (Its 04:45 in
    > > > Denmark right now - And im tired :))
    > > >
    > > > > Though it'd help to know what about GTK and Tk you disliked.
    > > > >
    > > > > Devin
    > > >
    > > > Well, its not that much the structure, but the fact that its old, and
    > > > useless unless your a windows guy. I want something that works
    > > > cross-browser (and by that i mean Ie/Safari/xxx).
    > > >
    > > > A last question, is there any options to make GUI programming easier,
    > > > and faster. A tool like Ruby On Rails, just for GUI programming?
    > > > Even though ruby doesnt demand as much lines as c++ for an example, it
    > > > is still many lines you have to write before something happends when you
    > > > use GUI tools.
    > > > - alright, i have an other tiny question: Can _you_ suggest any GUI
    > > > tools, that are up-to-date that you have tried?
    > > >

    >
    > Qt is another very good GUI toolkit. You can use it directly from C++
    > or use it from Python with PyQt. Its now open source as well as
    > commercial (a paid license) on both Windows and Linux, if I remember -
    > this was with the release of Qt 4. Good if you want to develop
    > cross-platform GUI apps in C++. Paid version is expensive for an
    > individual developer, though.

    Well of course you can use QtRuby with Qt3 or Qt4, as well as PyQt

    -- Richard
    , Jan 2, 2007
    #9
  10. Peter Manning

    Alex Fenton Guest

    Peter Manning wrote:

    > A last question, is there any options to make GUI programming easier,
    > and faster. A tool like Ruby On Rails, just for GUI programming?


    WxSugar is one such library, to make programming with wxRuby easier and less repetitive.

    http://wxruby.rubyforge.org/wiki/wiki.pl?WxSugar

    It would probably not be too hard to write something similar for the other toolkits, if they don't have it already.

    > Even though ruby doesnt demand as much lines as c++ for an example, it
    > is still many lines you have to write before something happends when you
    > use GUI tools.


    WxSugar's goal is expressiveness rather than terseness, but applications written with it typically have 20-40% fewer lines than vanilla wxRuby.

    Since the other poster didn't mention it, I should say that wxRuby is not quite ready for production use. It's pretty complete in coverage of the wxWidgets GUI API, but there are a few memory management bugs remaining. On windows, you may wish to temporarily add 'GC.disable' to the top of your scripts. I'd hope to see a stable beta in the next month or so.

    alex
    Alex Fenton, Jan 2, 2007
    #10
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