What so special about PostgreSQL and other RDBMS?

[Sarah Tanembaum]

Beside its an opensource and supported by community, what's the fundamental
differences between PostgreSQL and those high-price commercial database (and
some are bloated such as Oracle) from software giant such as Microsoft SQL
Server, Oracle, and Sybase?

Is PostgreSQL reliable enough to be used for high-end commercial
application? Thanks

 

[Rove Monteux]

Bit offtopic, but yes, indeed it is. Starting point on that,

http://advocacy.postgresql.org/casestudies/


Cheers

Rove

 

[Volker Hetzer]

Beside its an opensource and supported by community, what's the fundamental
differences between PostgreSQL and those high-price commercial database (and
some are bloated such as Oracle) from software giant such as Microsoft SQL
Server, Oracle, and Sybase?

Is PostgreSQL reliable enough to be used for high-end commercial
application? Thanks

No idea. What I like about oracle is the tools, especially rman and the wizards
and also the support. Paying for something gives me power over the guy I pay.
Also, I like to have lots of little screws to tailor my database to the specific hardware
and load profile.

Lots of Greetings!
Volker

 

[Fred Emmott]

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Beside its an opensource and supported by community, what's the
fundamental differences between PostgreSQL and those high-price commercial
database (and some are bloated such as Oracle) from software giant such as
Microsoft SQL Server, Oracle, and Sybase?

Is PostgreSQL reliable enough to be used for high-end commercial
application? Thanks

I would recommend MySQL if you are looking for an alternative. I know
nothing of PostgreSQL, but I know that MySQL is suitable for use as a
high-usage database.

Fred
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[Tom Copeland]

PostgreSQL runs RubyForge... it's not very high volume - half million
records, 70-80K queries a day - but it does the job.

<shameless>
Good tools for it too! http://pqa.rubyforge.org/
</shameless>

Yours,

Tom

 

[Armin Roehrl]

Postgresql and MySQL are both very impressive.

The latest Oracle 10g comes with zillions of features that might
be relevant to you or not.

Oracle 10g has many features you might maybe never need,
but mysql cluster does not yet contain. I do not know much
about the latest DB2 clustering possibilities.

These "monster" Databases like Oracle are more than just
a database. You have tons of platform integration possibilities.

I think the choice really depends on what you are going todo
and there is no simple answer.

Good luck,
-Armin

 

[rkusenet]

PostgreSQL is highly overrated and not suitable for any environment
where little things like crash recovery and security are a priority.

Why postgresSQL?? Why don't u say that all RDBMS except Oracle is
highly overrated. This way u don't have to fear about ur job for any
foreseeable future.

Your attitude reminds me of the attitude Americans had towards outsourcing
some 4/5 yrs ago. At that time all they could do is to arrogantly dismiss
outsourcing as unsustainable model. We all know what happened to them today.

I see lot of similarity between movement towards outsourcing few yrs
ago and now movement towards open source database. US companies, after
achieving cost savings thru outsourcing will next turn their attention
to money guzzling enterprise software like RDBMS. How long do you think
it will take them to realize that most of them don't deserve the price
tag they pay.

See ya after 3 yrs in Bangalore

 

[rkusenet]

Because saying so wouldn't be true. There are documented security and
recovery practices for all of the commercial RDBMS products. There are
books, case studies, and years of experience from industry professionals
supporting the fact that while they may be different ... they all work.
The same can not be said for PostgreSQL. MySQL, in this regard, has a
far better record.

Care to disagree? Fine. Provide the names of 5 major commercial
installations of PostgreSQL.

Mine was a comment on ur attitude towards any non oracle product.
I can show examples where you attacked MYSQL also. Just like you
attack DB2/Informix and your pet hate object SQLServer.

You are right that MySQL has a far better record than PostgreSQL
and IMO they will give all commercial RDBMS a run for their money.

I can only spell PostgreSQL. So I can't name any installations
of PostgreSQL.

There ... gave you five more for free. If you've got something to
talk about ... name names ... otherwise stop promoting freeware
as though it was worth more than its price.

Freeware also includes MySQL. (actually they are no longer free
for profit oriented corporations)

 

[Mikito Harakiri]

I would recommend MySQL if you are looking for an alternative. I know
nothing of PostgreSQL, but I know that MySQL is suitable for use as a
high-usage database.

You are kidding, right? Out of curiosity I took a look at MySQL
performance tuning manual. It's almost empty. The example where their
engine picks up Cartesian Product due to type mismatch is strikingly
naive. Scanning a single table by index that MySQL seems to emphasize
is not a benchmark.

 

[Dusan Bolek]

Your attitude reminds me of the attitude Americans had towards outsourcing
some 4/5 yrs ago. At that time all they could do is to arrogantly dismiss
outsourcing as unsustainable model. We all know what happened to them today.

Yes, you've got the point. Behind both of these models (outsourcing
and free soft) is the idea that the quality is not important, the only
thing that matter are costs and their cuts. And you're also true that
freeware alternatives will earn their place. In the world where CIO is
one year temp job and the best thing on CIO's CV is cutting cost to
10% and sack off 80% of internal staff because of outsourcing to
India, in this world free databases are very tempting way to go. Of
course, the outcome will be lowered availability, higher maintenance
costs, security problems and damaged business reputation, but who gave
a f*ck, we saved 90% of our internal IT budget.

--
Dusan Bolek

Email: (e-mail address removed)
Pls add "Not Guilty" to the subject, otherwise your email is going to
be burnt as a SPAM.

 

[sybrandb]

You are right that MySQL has a far better record than PostgreSQL
and IMO they will give all commercial RDBMS a run for their money.

I can only spell PostgreSQL. So I can't name any installations
of PostgreSQL.


Freeware also includes MySQL. (actually they are no longer free
for profit oriented corporations)

Evident you are mislead by the 'Free is better' religion and you don't
care for robustness and stability. Otherwise you wouldn't state MySQL
will give all commercial RDBMS a run for their money. If you would
honestly compare the architecture of Oracle (and most other commercial
RDBMSes) and you would be frank, you would have to admit MySQL is a
toy. Nothing more, nothing less.
Evidently, there are too many people around in the field, who never
*learned* to develop robust applications and databases, and who mainly
deliver software which is hacked together. Of course, this mentality
perfectly suits the Open Source Community. I wouldn't want to be in
anyone shoes if your silly assertion becomes true, because that means
the bean counters have finally won, and are going to ruin their own
employers by trading in robust, stable and scalable software like
Oracle for toys like MySQL.

Also, you are evidently being dishonest, and contradicting yourself.
You both don't know any PostgreSQL, while you hail it as being better
than Oracle, and you label MySQL as free software, and in the same
phrase you have to admit MySQL isn't true.
I would take better care before you start accusing people here.

Sybrand Bakker
Senior Oracle DBA

 

[rkusenet]

Yes, you've got the point. Behind both of these models (outsourcing
and free soft) is the idea that the quality is not important, the only
thing that matter are costs and their cuts.

This isn't about the subject of this thread, but it got me curious.

Are you suggesting that outsourcing to India means reduction in quality.
I am asking this because what is believed is the other way, that is,
outsourcing to India means better quality work. There was an article
in eweek "time to debunk myth that indian programmers are better".
I will post the link later. Don't have it now.

 

[Michael Shigorin]

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Behind both of these models (outsourcing and free soft) is the
idea that the quality is not important, the only thing that
matter are costs and their cuts.

BS. Revisit your Economics lessons.

in this world free databases are very tempting way to go. Of
course, the outcome will be lowered availability, higher
maintenance costs, security problems and damaged business
reputation, but who gave a ****, we saved 90% of our internal
IT budget.

YABS. Or just trolling?

/me returns to Pickaxe and some LiveCD-related stuff to help
people (*shrug*) cut on their IT/win32 budgets. That is, throw
less money away.

PS: somehow my spamfilter was totally correct on this post...
probably I'd better ignore the troll altogether.

--
---- WBR, Michael Shigorin <[email protected]>
------ Linux.Kiev http://www.linux.kiev.ua/

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[rkusenet]

Are you suggesting that outsourcing to India means reduction in quality.
I am asking this because what is believed is the other way, that is,
outsourcing to India means better quality work. There was an article
in eweek "time to debunk myth that indian programmers are better".
I will post the link later. Don't have it now.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1583257,00.asp?kc=EWNWS050304DTX1K0000599

 

[Brian Peasland]

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1583257,00.asp?kc=EWNWS050304DTX1K0000599

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? You seem to be implying that
outsourcing to India *does not* mean a reduction in quality and then you
post an article which says the quality is not necessarily better. Which
is your viewpoint?

Cheers,
Brian

--
===================================================================

Brian Peasland
dba@remove_spam.peasland.com

Remove the "remove_spam." from the email address to email me.


"I can give it to you cheap, quick, and good. Now pick two out of
the three"

 

[rkusenet]

Aren't you contradicting yourself here? You seem to be implying that
outsourcing to India *does not* mean a reduction in quality and then you
post an article which says the quality is not necessarily better. Which
is your viewpoint?

No I am not contradicting. I was giving a link to Dusan Bolek
which shows that how some believe that outsourcing increases quality
and how some think it is not.
if everyone believed like Dusan, why would there be a need to debunk
myth, right? Won't it be taken as granted that outsourcing means
poor quality.

 

[Paul Vudmaska]

rkusenet wrote:



Aren't you contradicting yourself here? You seem to be implying that
outsourcing to India *does not* mean a reduction in quality and then you
post an article which says the quality is not necessarily better. Which
is your viewpoint?

Cheers,
Brian

There is no sense belabouring this because in both places they are just
people both w/better and lesser skills at certain things in certain
contexts.Certainly 15k for a programmer is better than 75k. If you look,
you could find a 15k programmer better thatn the 75k programmer here -
and vice versa.

Back to the topic of the thread. I've not used Oracle much(and when i
did it thought it was overly complex) but I've used A LOT of MS SQL and
mysql (and a little postgres). My needs have been quite simple so i
really do not know enough to know the things that I might be missing.
Even after facing(and not fully rectifying) the 'Mysql has gone away'
problem(from both php and ruby:dbi) I still would rather use mysql than
mssql. I suppose this has more to do with ruby and less to do with the
db but that's my pennies worth.

'You get what you pay for'.
'Good enough is good enough when good enough is all you need.'

 

[NorwoodThree]

This isn't about the subject of this thread, but it got me curious.

Are you suggesting that outsourcing to India means reduction in quality.
I am asking this because what is believed is the other way, that is,
outsourcing to India means better quality work. There was an article
in eweek "time to debunk myth that indian programmers are better".
I will post the link later. Don't have it now.

I am going to go out on a limb and say worse quality work because I
can't understand them when I talk to them on the phone.

 

[Richard Torkar]

I am going to go out on a limb and say worse quality work because I
can't understand them when I talk to them on the phone.

A Global Survey of Software Development Practices

http://ebusiness.mit.edu/research/papers/178_Cusumano_Intl_Comp.pdf

Best,

Richard

 

[Ken]

Beside its an opensource and supported by community, what's the fundamental
differences between PostgreSQL and those high-price commercial database (and
some are bloated such as Oracle) from software giant such as Microsoft SQL
Server, Oracle, and Sybase?

Is PostgreSQL reliable enough to be used for high-end commercial
application? Thanks

Depends.

How much is your data worth?
How much will downtime cost?
How much will a commercial database cost?

PostgreSQL is a really nice little database, and has a lot going for
it:
- easy to install, admin, and use
- easy to port databases between PostgreSQL and other commercial
databases
- very high-quality implementation

However, on the other side of the coin:
- missing many of the high-end features needed in large data volumes
like partitioning, clustering, parallelism, materialized views, query
rewrite, etc.
- missing many of the high-availabity features
- missing lots of the various stuff: replication, etc

Personally, when I've got a lot of value in my database I typically
opt for a commercial offering. But there are those exceptional
situations - like:
- no budget
- just want to prototype
- it's read-only data and you can create a dozen small databases
- the data isn't super-valuable
Then in these cases - PostgreSQL is a nice little product, and I
wouldn't hesitate to use it. Much better, btw than its primary
competitor - MySQL with its limited, non-ansi sql, and amazing
exception handling irregularities.


kenfar