What sort of C++ skills are needed for a proprietary trader?

P

Protoman

Hi!

I'm currently a HS sophomore who has passed the California High School
Proficency Exam, and will be starting Cerritos College soon --I'll get
my AA in Mathematics/Economics; I'll then transfer to UCLA's
Mathematics/Economics major, and try to transfer into MIT's Applied
Mathematics major and the Economics minor for my senior year --wishful
thinking, I know-- --, and I hope to become a proprietary trader for a
hedge fund after getting my MSc in Mathematical and Computational
Finance from Exeter College, Oxford, and, possibly, get my PhD in
Financial Engineering from Cornell University. I know that the job
requires C++ programming skils, but I am at a loss for what level of
depth and breadth that they want. Anyone here to help me out?
 
D

dog

What sort of C++ skills are needed for a proprietary trader?

What's the point in becomming a pt? Deep discount online brokers are
just that, dirt cheap .. as low as a buck a roundtrip trade. Save
yourself the trouble.

C++ however is a good choice. It't still the most popular low level
(powerful) language.

GL
Steve
 
P

Protoman

What's the point in becomming a pt? Deep discount online brokers are
just that, dirt cheap .. as low as a buck a roundtrip trade. Save
yourself the trouble.

C++ however is a good choice. It't still the most popular low level
(powerful) language.

GL
Steve

No, no...I meant a trader for a hedge fund or investment bank. There's
two types of prop traders: the ones for prop shops that are glorified
daytraders, and the quantitative traders who work for the proprietary
trading desk of an investment bank or hedge fund who trade for the i-
bank's or hedge fund's own account, and get a larger base salary and a
smaller percentage --<=20%-- of the much larger profits as bonuses.
The second type have their Series 7 and Series 55 licenses and are the
elite of the professional traders. A quant trader at Goldman Sachs
earned $40MM as a bonus this year; the CEO only got $35MM that year.
http://jobs.efinancialcareers.com/job-4000000000176038.htm/keywordAny=options trader/.
Basically, I want to be a quantitative trader/analyst.

Should I take a course in software design and/or engineering, as well?
 
C

Charles

Protoman said:
...I hope to become a proprietary trader for a hedge fund...
I know that the job requires C++ programming skils...

Where did you get that idea?

I doubt that a trader requires C++. The people that support the traders
might need C++ proficiency. Go interview a trader, that is, someone
actually doing the job you want. It won't be hard to get them to talk about
their jobs.
...I am at a loss for what level of depth and breadth...

If you want to have enough programming skills to work for the likes of
Goldman Sachs, C++ is excellent. A solid base of programming knowledge is
essential. That will apply to any language required. Get your own copy of
The Art of Computer Programming, a multi-volume set by Donald Knuth. If you
can show at least a passing familiarity with everything in those books any
hedge fund would love to have you. (Just today I worked on the
differentiation of a polynomial tree and referred to a section in Knuth's
Fundamental Algorithms.)

If you get to the point where you understand just how much you don't know
about C++, you're ready for Goldman. To do that write programs - lots of
programs. Computer languages are learned, like other languages, through
exercise. Want to _really_ learn a language? Teach a course in it.
 
R

red floyd

Charles said:
If you want to have enough programming skills to work for the likes of
Goldman Sachs, C++ is excellent. A solid base of programming knowledge is
essential. That will apply to any language required. Get your own copy of
The Art of Computer Programming, a multi-volume set by Donald Knuth. If you
can show at least a passing familiarity with everything in those books any
hedge fund would love to have you. (Just today I worked on the
differentiation of a polynomial tree and referred to a section in Knuth's
Fundamental Algorithms.)

Just so you'll know, they're not cheap. My boxed set cost $150. And
it's worth every penny.
 
P

Protoman

Where did you get that idea?

I doubt that a trader requires C++. The people that support the traders
might need C++ proficiency. Go interview a trader, that is, someone
actually doing the job you want. It won't be hard to get them to talk about
their jobs.


If you want to have enough programming skills to work for the likes of
Goldman Sachs, C++ is excellent. A solid base of programming knowledge is
essential. That will apply to any language required. Get your own copy of
The Art of Computer Programming, a multi-volume set by Donald Knuth. If you
can show at least a passing familiarity with everything in those books any
hedge fund would love to have you. (Just today I worked on the
differentiation of a polynomial tree and referred to a section in Knuth's
Fundamental Algorithms.)

If you get to the point where you understand just how much you don't know
about C++, you're ready for Goldman. To do that write programs - lots of
programs. Computer languages are learned, like other languages, through
exercise. Want to _really_ learn a language? Teach a course in it.

Yeah, I know I don't know a good couple aspects of C++. Like I don't
really understand protected inheritance and the uses thereof, or
"traits", and I need to broaden and deppen my understanding of
template metaprogramming and software design and engineering. As well
as a host of other things.
 
C

Chris Thomasson

Protoman said:
What's the point in becomming a pt? Deep discount online brokers are
just that, dirt cheap .. as low as a buck a roundtrip trade. Save
yourself the trouble.

C++ however is a good choice. It't still the most popular low level
(powerful) language.
[...]

Should I take a course in software design and/or engineering, as well?

Yes.



P.S.
-----------

Here is a brief presentation from David Buksbaum's who's job title is SVP
Development Manager of Systematic Trading, Citadel Investment:


http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...et.ppt+appcore+.ppt&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=20
(http link...)

http://www.cs.nyu.edu/artg/internet...putMulti-threadedServersInCSharpAndDotNet.ppt
(powerpoint link...)


http://groups.google.com/group/comp.programming.threads/msg/f60bd30728c1e24a

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.programming.threads/browse_frm/thread/205dcaed77941352


It seems like they are mainly using C# and building custom servers, backend
web stuff, ect...
 
C

Charles

Protoman said:
As well as a host of other things.

Along those lines make sure that you are employable at your target firm.
Build a body of work demonstrating your analytical skills. Write an article
for Dr. Dobbs. Start a programming blog. Make sure that your online
persona is spotless. Employers check MySpace and YouTube. The Internet
never forgets.

Dress, write and speak like the people you want to work with. Pick a half
dozen persons who hold the job you want. Read their work. Read their
masters or doctoral theses. Get your own subscription to the Wall Street
Journal. The argot of the financial world shouldn't sound like a foreign
tongue. Find a local library with a subscription to the Journal of
Financial and Quantitative Analysis and stay current.
 
P

Protoman

Along those lines make sure that you are employable at your target firm.
Build a body of work demonstrating your analytical skills. Write an article
for Dr. Dobbs. Start a programming blog. Make sure that your online
persona is spotless. Employers check MySpace and YouTube. The Internet
never forgets.

Dress, write and speak like the people you want to work with. Pick a half
dozen persons who hold the job you want. Read their work. Read their
masters or doctoral theses. Get your own subscription to the Wall Street
Journal. The argot of the financial world shouldn't sound like a foreign
tongue. Find a local library with a subscription to the Journal of
Financial and Quantitative Analysis and stay current.

I wil!!! Thanks!!!
 
C

Charles

Protoman said:
As well as a host of other things.

Okay here's another idea. Collect computers. They're free. People throw
out PCs every day or they're just collecting dust in a closet. Ask your
friends and relatives. Build a cluster out of those PCs using the (also
free) Linux operating system. Do a search on "Linux cluster." You probably
can't afford a 64-core IBM server. Build your own.

Nothing impresses a college acceptance board or a prospective employer when
they ask about parallel computers and networking like a picture of one that
you built yourself. Keep a diary of the process. Detail the problems you
ran into, the solutions you came up with, why they didn't work and what you
did to achieve success.
 
C

Charles

red said:
Just so you'll know, they're not cheap. My boxed set cost $150. And
it's worth every penny.

Indeed. A tour de force. To let you know that you are in good company,
take a look at the photo of Scott Meyers at work at photograph 15 on
http://aristeia.com/EC3E/WITW/index_frames.html. His set is on the bottom
shelf of the book case behind him. Look for the familiar tan and black
binding. (One volume is partially hidden.)
 

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