What sort of C++ skills are needed for a proprietary trader?

Discussion in 'C++' started by Protoman, Aug 23, 2007.

  1. Protoman

    Protoman Guest

    Hi!

    I'm currently a HS sophomore who has passed the California High School
    Proficency Exam, and will be starting Cerritos College soon --I'll get
    my AA in Mathematics/Economics; I'll then transfer to UCLA's
    Mathematics/Economics major, and try to transfer into MIT's Applied
    Mathematics major and the Economics minor for my senior year --wishful
    thinking, I know-- --, and I hope to become a proprietary trader for a
    hedge fund after getting my MSc in Mathematical and Computational
    Finance from Exeter College, Oxford, and, possibly, get my PhD in
    Financial Engineering from Cornell University. I know that the job
    requires C++ programming skils, but I am at a loss for what level of
    depth and breadth that they want. Anyone here to help me out?
    Protoman, Aug 23, 2007
    #1
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  2. Protoman

    dog Guest

    On Aug 22, 6:54 pm, Protoman <> wrote:

    >What sort of C++ skills are needed for a proprietary trader?


    What's the point in becomming a pt? Deep discount online brokers are
    just that, dirt cheap .. as low as a buck a roundtrip trade. Save
    yourself the trouble.

    C++ however is a good choice. It't still the most popular low level
    (powerful) language.

    GL
    Steve
    dog, Aug 23, 2007
    #2
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  3. Protoman

    Protoman Guest

    On Aug 23, 2:42 pm, dog <> wrote:
    > On Aug 22, 6:54 pm, Protoman <> wrote:
    >
    > >What sort of C++ skills are needed for a proprietarytrader?

    >
    > What's the point in becomming a pt? Deep discount online brokers are
    > just that, dirt cheap .. as low as a buck a roundtrip trade. Save
    > yourself the trouble.
    >
    > C++ however is a good choice. It't still the most popular low level
    > (powerful) language.
    >
    > GL
    > Steve


    No, no...I meant a trader for a hedge fund or investment bank. There's
    two types of prop traders: the ones for prop shops that are glorified
    daytraders, and the quantitative traders who work for the proprietary
    trading desk of an investment bank or hedge fund who trade for the i-
    bank's or hedge fund's own account, and get a larger base salary and a
    smaller percentage --<=20%-- of the much larger profits as bonuses.
    The second type have their Series 7 and Series 55 licenses and are the
    elite of the professional traders. A quant trader at Goldman Sachs
    earned $40MM as a bonus this year; the CEO only got $35MM that year.
    http://jobs.efinancialcareers.com/job-4000000000176038.htm/keywordAny=options trader/.
    Basically, I want to be a quantitative trader/analyst.

    Should I take a course in software design and/or engineering, as well?
    Protoman, Aug 24, 2007
    #3
  4. Protoman

    Charles Guest

    Protoman wrote:
    > ...I hope to become a proprietary trader for a hedge fund...
    > I know that the job requires C++ programming skils...


    Where did you get that idea?

    I doubt that a trader requires C++. The people that support the traders
    might need C++ proficiency. Go interview a trader, that is, someone
    actually doing the job you want. It won't be hard to get them to talk about
    their jobs.

    > ...I am at a loss for what level of depth and breadth...


    If you want to have enough programming skills to work for the likes of
    Goldman Sachs, C++ is excellent. A solid base of programming knowledge is
    essential. That will apply to any language required. Get your own copy of
    The Art of Computer Programming, a multi-volume set by Donald Knuth. If you
    can show at least a passing familiarity with everything in those books any
    hedge fund would love to have you. (Just today I worked on the
    differentiation of a polynomial tree and referred to a section in Knuth's
    Fundamental Algorithms.)

    If you get to the point where you understand just how much you don't know
    about C++, you're ready for Goldman. To do that write programs - lots of
    programs. Computer languages are learned, like other languages, through
    exercise. Want to _really_ learn a language? Teach a course in it.

    --
    Charles
    Charles, Aug 24, 2007
    #4
  5. Protoman

    red floyd Guest

    Charles wrote:

    >
    > If you want to have enough programming skills to work for the likes of
    > Goldman Sachs, C++ is excellent. A solid base of programming knowledge is
    > essential. That will apply to any language required. Get your own copy of
    > The Art of Computer Programming, a multi-volume set by Donald Knuth. If you
    > can show at least a passing familiarity with everything in those books any
    > hedge fund would love to have you. (Just today I worked on the
    > differentiation of a polynomial tree and referred to a section in Knuth's
    > Fundamental Algorithms.)


    Just so you'll know, they're not cheap. My boxed set cost $150. And
    it's worth every penny.
    red floyd, Aug 24, 2007
    #5
  6. Protoman

    Protoman Guest

    On Aug 23, 6:35 pm, "Charles" <> wrote:
    > Protoman wrote:
    > > ...I hope to become a proprietary trader for a hedge fund...
    > > I know that the job requires C++ programming skils...

    >
    > Where did you get that idea?
    >
    > I doubt that a trader requires C++. The people that support the traders
    > might need C++ proficiency. Go interview a trader, that is, someone
    > actually doing the job you want. It won't be hard to get them to talk about
    > their jobs.
    >
    > > ...I am at a loss for what level of depth and breadth...

    >
    > If you want to have enough programming skills to work for the likes of
    > Goldman Sachs, C++ is excellent. A solid base of programming knowledge is
    > essential. That will apply to any language required. Get your own copy of
    > The Art of Computer Programming, a multi-volume set by Donald Knuth. If you
    > can show at least a passing familiarity with everything in those books any
    > hedge fund would love to have you. (Just today I worked on the
    > differentiation of a polynomial tree and referred to a section in Knuth's
    > Fundamental Algorithms.)
    >
    > If you get to the point where you understand just how much you don't know
    > about C++, you're ready for Goldman. To do that write programs - lots of
    > programs. Computer languages are learned, like other languages, through
    > exercise. Want to _really_ learn a language? Teach a course in it.
    >
    > --
    > Charles


    Yeah, I know I don't know a good couple aspects of C++. Like I don't
    really understand protected inheritance and the uses thereof, or
    "traits", and I need to broaden and deppen my understanding of
    template metaprogramming and software design and engineering. As well
    as a host of other things.
    Protoman, Aug 24, 2007
    #6
  7. "Protoman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Aug 23, 2:42 pm, dog <> wrote:
    >> On Aug 22, 6:54 pm, Protoman <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >What sort of C++ skills are needed for a proprietarytrader?

    >>
    >> What's the point in becomming a pt? Deep discount online brokers are
    >> just that, dirt cheap .. as low as a buck a roundtrip trade. Save
    >> yourself the trouble.
    >>
    >> C++ however is a good choice. It't still the most popular low level
    >> (powerful) language.

    [...]

    > Should I take a course in software design and/or engineering, as well?


    Yes.



    P.S.
    -----------

    Here is a brief presentation from David Buksbaum's who's job title is SVP
    Development Manager of Systematic Trading, Citadel Investment:


    http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache...et.ppt appcore .ppt&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=20
    (http link...)

    http://www.cs.nyu.edu/artg/internet...putMulti-threadedServersInCSharpAndDotNet.ppt
    (powerpoint link...)


    http://groups.google.com/group/comp.programming.threads/msg/f60bd30728c1e24a

    http://groups.google.com/group/comp.programming.threads/browse_frm/thread/205dcaed77941352


    It seems like they are mainly using C# and building custom servers, backend
    web stuff, ect...
    Chris Thomasson, Aug 24, 2007
    #7
  8. Protoman

    Charles Guest

    Protoman wrote:
    > As well as a host of other things.


    Along those lines make sure that you are employable at your target firm.
    Build a body of work demonstrating your analytical skills. Write an article
    for Dr. Dobbs. Start a programming blog. Make sure that your online
    persona is spotless. Employers check MySpace and YouTube. The Internet
    never forgets.

    Dress, write and speak like the people you want to work with. Pick a half
    dozen persons who hold the job you want. Read their work. Read their
    masters or doctoral theses. Get your own subscription to the Wall Street
    Journal. The argot of the financial world shouldn't sound like a foreign
    tongue. Find a local library with a subscription to the Journal of
    Financial and Quantitative Analysis and stay current.

    --
    Charles
    Charles, Aug 24, 2007
    #8
  9. Protoman

    Protoman Guest

    On Aug 24, 12:54 pm, "Charles" <> wrote:
    > Protoman wrote:
    > > As well as a host of other things.

    >
    > Along those lines make sure that you are employable at your target firm.
    > Build a body of work demonstrating your analytical skills. Write an article
    > for Dr. Dobbs. Start a programming blog. Make sure that your online
    > persona is spotless. Employers check MySpace and YouTube. The Internet
    > never forgets.
    >
    > Dress, write and speak like the people you want to work with. Pick a half
    > dozen persons who hold the job you want. Read their work. Read their
    > masters or doctoral theses. Get your own subscription to the Wall Street
    > Journal. The argot of the financial world shouldn't sound like a foreign
    > tongue. Find a local library with a subscription to the Journal of
    > Financial and Quantitative Analysis and stay current.
    >
    > --
    > Charles


    I wil!!! Thanks!!!
    Protoman, Aug 24, 2007
    #9
  10. Protoman

    Charles Guest

    Protoman wrote:
    > As well as a host of other things.


    Okay here's another idea. Collect computers. They're free. People throw
    out PCs every day or they're just collecting dust in a closet. Ask your
    friends and relatives. Build a cluster out of those PCs using the (also
    free) Linux operating system. Do a search on "Linux cluster." You probably
    can't afford a 64-core IBM server. Build your own.

    Nothing impresses a college acceptance board or a prospective employer when
    they ask about parallel computers and networking like a picture of one that
    you built yourself. Keep a diary of the process. Detail the problems you
    ran into, the solutions you came up with, why they didn't work and what you
    did to achieve success.

    --
    Chuck
    Charles, Aug 25, 2007
    #10
  11. Protoman

    Charles Guest

    red floyd wrote:
    > Charles wrote:
    >> Get your own copy of The Art of Computer Programming...

    > Just so you'll know, they're not cheap. My boxed set cost $150. And
    > it's worth every penny.


    Indeed. A tour de force. To let you know that you are in good company,
    take a look at the photo of Scott Meyers at work at photograph 15 on
    http://aristeia.com/EC3E/WITW/index_frames.html. His set is on the bottom
    shelf of the book case behind him. Look for the familiar tan and black
    binding. (One volume is partially hidden.)

    --
    Chuck
    Charles, Aug 25, 2007
    #11
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