What's a reasonable web programmer skill set?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Mike Silva, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. Mike Silva

    Mike Silva Guest

    First off, apologies if this is not a good group to ask this question,
    and redirection to a better group is welcomed.

    Second, I realize that there is, obviously, no single answer to the
    question.

    So having said these things, I'm wondering what skills a "mid-level"
    web programmer should have. That is, not a beginner, nor a web
    programming god, but somebody who can get the job done in most cases.

    Just to prime the pump, I, who aspire to that mid-level world, am
    focusing now on HTML, CSS, PHP and MySQL. And I've got some skills in
    graphics applications from Adobe and Corel Draw. Oh, and I should add
    that I'm a long-time programmer, just not web stuff.

    Many thanks for any insights.

    Mike
     
    Mike Silva, Mar 7, 2009
    #1
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  2. On 07 Mar 2009, Mike Silva <> wrote:

    > First off, apologies if this is not a good group to ask this
    > question, and redirection to a better group is welcomed.
    >
    > Second, I realize that there is, obviously, no single answer to the
    > question.
    >
    > So having said these things, I'm wondering what skills a "mid-level"
    > web programmer should have. That is, not a beginner, nor a web
    > programming god, but somebody who can get the job done in most cases.
    >
    > Just to prime the pump, I, who aspire to that mid-level world, am
    > focusing now on HTML, CSS, PHP and MySQL. And I've got some skills
    > in graphics applications from Adobe and Corel Draw. Oh, and I should
    > add that I'm a long-time programmer, just not web stuff.


    "Those who aspire to mediocrity seldom meet even their expectations."

    - Thor O.


    --
    Awful Dog Autry
     
    Awful Dog Autry, Mar 7, 2009
    #2
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  3. Mike Silva

    Mike Silva Guest

    On Mar 7, 11:19 am, Awful Dog Autry <> wrote:
    >
    > "Those who aspire to mediocrity seldom meet even their expectations."
    >
    > - Thor O.


    And yet "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."

    Would it really have been better to say "hey, I'm a newbie and I want
    to know how to become a web programming god."? If you think so, then
    consider that my amended question.
     
    Mike Silva, Mar 7, 2009
    #3
  4. Mike Silva

    Tim Greer Guest

    Mike Silva wrote:

    > First off, apologies if this is not a good group to ask this question,
    > and redirection to a better group is welcomed.
    >
    > Second, I realize that there is, obviously, no single answer to the
    > question.
    >
    > So having said these things, I'm wondering what skills a "mid-level"
    > web programmer should have. That is, not a beginner, nor a web
    > programming god, but somebody who can get the job done in most cases.
    >
    > Just to prime the pump, I, who aspire to that mid-level world, am
    > focusing now on HTML, CSS, PHP and MySQL. And I've got some skills in
    > graphics applications from Adobe and Corel Draw. Oh, and I should add
    > that I'm a long-time programmer, just not web stuff.
    >
    > Many thanks for any insights.
    >
    > Mike


    I'd say a good knowledge of PHP, MySQL, HTML, CSS and JavaScript are
    fairly decent, especially if you have good graphic skills. Other
    things would be familarity with how Windows and Linux (and maybe
    FreeBSD) work, FTP and maybe things like rsync/ssh, some command line
    aspects, as well as permissions and ownershop issues, and if you deal
    with the Apache wev server, also knowing mod rewrite. That's a decent
    foundation that I see most webmaster's running into problems with if
    they lack in any specific areas of the mix of things they usually have
    to deal with. From there, you are able to more easily learn how to
    deal with other aspects as well as other programming languages over
    time.
    --
    Tim Greer, CEO/Founder/CTO, BurlyHost.com, Inc.
    Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, Dedicated & Semi-Dedicated servers
    and Custom Hosting. 24/7 support, 30 day guarantee, secure servers.
    Industry's most experienced staff! -- Web Hosting With Muscle!
     
    Tim Greer, Mar 7, 2009
    #4
  5. Mike Silva

    William Gill Guest

    Mike Silva wrote:

    > And yet "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
    >
    > Would it really have been better to say "hey, I'm a newbie and I want
    > to know how to become a web programming god."? If you think so, then
    > consider that my amended question.


    "You must pay for conformity. All goes well as long as you run with
    conformists. But you, who are honest men in other particulars, know that
    there is alive somewhere a man whose honesty reaches to this point also,
    that he shall not kneel to false gods, and, on the day when you meet
    him, you sink into the class of counterfeits."

    Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Step 1: Lurk here and determine what advice is valid, and how to weight
    the free opinions rendered. (Even for free, some of what you see here
    is over priced.)

    I am going to assume the use of the term "mid level" was in reference to
    position (i.e. worker as opposed to manager), not the degree of
    proficiency to which you aspire. That may have given some here fodder
    for reproach, as might "web programmer."

    You may already know that this ("web programming") is the successful
    melding of various disciplines. There are the "technicians" and the
    "artists", and you will find that the successful are the ones that can
    recognize their strong suits, while still appreciating the value of the
    others. An artist may be able to create the geometry and color schemes
    to make a page/site aesthetically appealing, while the technician can
    whip up the mechanics of PHP, MySQL, java, javascript or even Flash
    (though Flash is itself a mixed discipline) to provide an "engine."
    Regardless of which school you find yourself in, the end product will
    have to be valid current markup, and style. So if you tend to be the
    mechanic, focus on those skills that make you proficient in the "engine"
    that produce valid output for the artist. If you are the artist, focus
    on the skills that allow you to convert the mechanical to the beautiful.
    If you aspire to be both recognize your personal biases, and be
    willing to "change hats" readily.

    This takes you back to step 1, and learning to pick out the various
    pieces you need to enhance your own inventory. Determine who are the
    technicians, and who are the artists, and recognize how they have
    integrated their strengths to compensate for their weaknesses.

    Step 2: Validate your HTML and CSS, and learn the whys as well as the hows.

    Since you are a "long-time programmer" you should appreciate that there
    limitations to trying to establish metrics ("what skills a web
    programmer should have.") For example, lines of code per day, may
    provide a measurement of productivity, but it may encourage inefficient,
    rambling, bloated code.

    I am going to risk making another assumption (take it for what it's
    worth.) I am assuming you are interested in augmenting your portfolio
    to either strengthen your current position, or improves your
    marketability. If it is the former, you have the advantage having some
    perspective on the needs, and deficits of the organization, and can
    focus on filling those needs. If it is the latter, you will have to
    find a way to package a demonstration of your value that in itself may
    require proficiency in your weaker areas. That means if you are a
    technician, you have to have an artistic presentation of the end
    product, and if you are an artist, you will need to show how you worked
    with the "engine" to produce the art.

    simple starting point.

    - Be able to produce valid html in an efficient manner.
    - Be able to do the same with CSS.
    - Be able to recognize and create pleasing presentation.
    - Be able to produce accessible pages.
    - Have a fundamental understanding of the difference between content and
    presentation, and how to properly separate and implement each.
    - Have a fundamental understanding of the relationship between semantics
    and HTML.
    - Be able to recognize and produce "fluid" layouts without sacrificing
    the tenor of your design. IMHO learn the limits of fluidity in a
    design. ("Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot
    change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know
    the difference." - Saint Francis of Assisi)
    - Be able to appreciate that even mastering these things is no insurance
    of producing "good" web pages since "good" is a relative term.

    Hope this helps.
     
    William Gill, Mar 7, 2009
    #5
  6. Mike Silva

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <>,
    Mike Silva <> wrote:

    > On Mar 7, 11:19 am, Awful Dog Autry <> wrote:
    > >
    > > "Those who aspire to mediocrity seldom meet even their expectations."
    > >
    > > - Thor O.

    >
    > And yet "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
    >
    > Would it really have been better to say "hey, I'm a newbie and I want
    > to know how to become a web programming god."? If you think so, then
    > consider that my amended question.


    No it would not have been. You can safely ignore his reply, he is being
    dealt with by my agents. As I write, information is coming through to my
    office here on ticker tape: "S U S P E C T L O C A T E D S T O P O F
    F I C E R W H I T E E N G A G E D I N S E V E R I T Y L E V E L E
    I G H T B E A T I N G"

    Level eight means my agent must stop when an inch of life is left. So
    don't worry, I am not doing anything too drastic.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Mar 7, 2009
    #6
  7. Mike Silva

    David Segall Guest

    Mike Silva <> wrote:

    >First off, apologies if this is not a good group to ask this question,
    >and redirection to a better group is welcomed.
    >
    >Second, I realize that there is, obviously, no single answer to the
    >question.
    >
    >So having said these things, I'm wondering what skills a "mid-level"
    >web programmer should have. That is, not a beginner, nor a web
    >programming god, but somebody who can get the job done in most cases.
    >
    >Just to prime the pump, I, who aspire to that mid-level world, am
    >focusing now on HTML, CSS, PHP and MySQL. And I've got some skills in
    >graphics applications from Adobe and Corel Draw. Oh, and I should add
    >that I'm a long-time programmer, just not web stuff.


    Why handicap yourself by having to learn everything from the
    beginning? I suggest you use a programming language you already know
    instead of PHP on the server. That language will almost certainly have
    a JDBC or ODBC interface so that you can also use a familiar database.

    I would also recommend a RAD tool and have written up the popular,
    free ones here <http://webdevelopment.profectus.com.au>.
     
    David Segall, Mar 8, 2009
    #7
  8. On 07 Mar 2009, Mike Silva <> wrote:

    > On Mar 7, 11:19 am, Awful Dog Autry <> wrote:
    >>
    >> "Those who aspire to mediocrity seldom meet even their
    >> expectations."
    >>
    >> - Thor O.

    >
    > And yet "A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
    >
    > Would it really have been better to say "hey, I'm a newbie and I want
    > to know how to become a web programming god."? If you think so, then
    > consider that my amended question.
    >


    I simple meant if you try as hard as you can, absorb all that may be
    absorbed, and are able to utilize your new-found knowledge to the
    fullest extent, you will be moderately successful should you manage to
    achieve about a 99% rate of efficiency in each of the previous three.
    Any lesser effort will produce a geometrically lower result.
    Improvement *may* occur with time and experience.

    --
    Awful Dog Autry
     
    Awful Dog Autry, Mar 8, 2009
    #8
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