when is fluid a design too fluid?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by William Gill, Aug 17, 2010.

  1. William Gill

    William Gill Guest

    There are several people here who appropriately point out the need for
    fluidity especially when a user must use large or very large text. I'm
    just curious. At what point do you find it preferable to require
    horizontal scrolling as opposed to columns of text having very few words
    per line.
     
    William Gill, Aug 17, 2010
    #1
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  2. William Gill

    idle Guest

    On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:49:53 -0400, William Gill wrote in alt.html:

    > There are several people here who appropriately point out the need for
    > fluidity especially when a user must use large or very large text. I'm
    > just curious. At what point do you find it preferable to require
    > horizontal scrolling as opposed to columns of text having very few words
    > per line.


    It's too fluid when it leaks!
    Horizontal scrolling should never happen. It's difficult enough to vertically scroll ;)
    Lots of viewers/users only see what's above the fold ;)

    --
    idle
    8/17/2010 12:52:30 AM
     
    idle, Aug 17, 2010
    #2
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  3. William Gill

    Neredbojias Guest

    On 16 Aug 2010, William Gill <> wrote:

    > There are several people here who appropriately point out the need
    > for fluidity especially when a user must use large or very large
    > text. I'm just curious. At what point do you find it preferable to
    > require horizontal scrolling as opposed to columns of text having
    > very few words per line.


    That is a good question, but I think I have to go along with Ed for my
    preference. I rather see the column shrink-down to the longest word
    before having to scroll horizontally to see (viewport-)hidden content.

    --
    Neredbojias

    http://www.neredbojias.org/
    http://www.neredbojias.net/
     
    Neredbojias, Aug 17, 2010
    #3
  4. William Gill

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    idle <> wrote:

    > On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:49:53 -0400, William Gill wrote in alt.html:
    >
    > > There are several people here who appropriately point out the need for
    > > fluidity especially when a user must use large or very large text. I'm
    > > just curious. At what point do you find it preferable to require
    > > horizontal scrolling as opposed to columns of text having very few words
    > > per line.

    >
    > It's too fluid when it leaks!
    > Horizontal scrolling should never happen. It's difficult enough to vertically
    > scroll ;)
    > Lots of viewers/users only see what's above the fold ;)


    Perhaps this is going a little far. Sometimes in a useful table
    of data, it is either some horizontal scroll bars come up or else
    a worse alternative, a loss of *reasonably* immediate information
    when the author, under talibanic stricture not to *ever* let a
    horizontal scrollbar come into play, fights to present the
    information in a different way.

    Notice how I said scrollbars, not horizontal scrolling? If a
    person's screen is wide enough, there will be no need for
    scrolling if he opens up the browser to wide.

    The point about scrollbars is that if they come up, it is
    information for a user to open up the browser more if he can and
    if he does not want to horiscroll. In other words, horiscolling
    is not absolutely bad if the user can reasonably be expected to
    be able to avoid it or if it is very hard to avoid by the author.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Aug 17, 2010
    #4
  5. William Gill

    idle Guest

    On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:42:45 +1000, dorayme wrote in alt.html:

    > In article <>,
    > idle <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Mon, 16 Aug 2010 21:49:53 -0400, William Gill wrote in alt.html:
    >>
    >>> There are several people here who appropriately point out the need for
    >>> fluidity especially when a user must use large or very large text. I'm
    >>> just curious. At what point do you find it preferable to require
    >>> horizontal scrolling as opposed to columns of text having very few words
    >>> per line.

    >>
    >> It's too fluid when it leaks!
    >> Horizontal scrolling should never happen. It's difficult enough to vertically
    >> scroll ;)
    >> Lots of viewers/users only see what's above the fold ;)

    >
    > Perhaps this is going a little far. Sometimes in a useful table
    > of data, it is either some horizontal scroll bars come up or else
    > a worse alternative, a loss of *reasonably* immediate information
    > when the author, under talibanic stricture not to *ever* let a
    > horizontal scrollbar come into play, fights to present the
    > information in a different way.
    >
    > Notice how I said scrollbars, not horizontal scrolling? If a
    > person's screen is wide enough, there will be no need for
    > scrolling if he opens up the browser to wide.
    >
    > The point about scrollbars is that if they come up, it is
    > information for a user to open up the browser more if he can and
    > if he does not want to horiscroll. In other words, horiscolling
    > is not absolutely bad if the user can reasonably be expected to
    > be able to avoid it or if it is very hard to avoid by the author.


    Not bad, but if avoidable, better.
    I'm preferring the method of utilizing the slide technique.
    http://demo.wpbakery.com/movement_html/


    --
    idle
    A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths.
     
    idle, Aug 17, 2010
    #5
  6. William Gill

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    idle <> wrote:

    > On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:42:45 +1000, dorayme wrote in alt.html:
    >
    > > In article <>,
    > > idle <> wrote:
    > >

    ....
    > > The point about scrollbars is that if they come up, it is
    > > information for a user to open up the browser more if he can and
    > > if he does not want to horiscroll. In other words, horiscolling
    > > is not absolutely bad if the user can reasonably be expected to
    > > be able to avoid it or if it is very hard to avoid by the author.

    >
    > Not bad, but if avoidable, better.
    > I'm preferring the method of utilizing the slide technique.
    > http://demo.wpbakery.com/movement_html/


    This "slide technique" - did you make this phrase up? - just
    means the user has one less (and possibly crucial) facility
    unavailable to him, namely horibars.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Aug 17, 2010
    #6
  7. William Gill

    idle Guest

    On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:33:41 +1000, dorayme wrote in alt.html:

    > In article <>,
    > idle <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:42:45 +1000, dorayme wrote in alt.html:
    >>
    >>> In article <>,
    >>> idle <> wrote:
    >>>

    > ...
    >>> The point about scrollbars is that if they come up, it is
    >>> information for a user to open up the browser more if he can and
    >>> if he does not want to horiscroll. In other words, horiscolling
    >>> is not absolutely bad if the user can reasonably be expected to
    >>> be able to avoid it or if it is very hard to avoid by the author.

    >>
    >> Not bad, but if avoidable, better.
    >> I'm preferring the method of utilizing the slide technique.
    >> http://demo.wpbakery.com/movement_html/

    >
    > This "slide technique" - did you make this phrase up? - just
    > means the user has one less (and possibly crucial) facility
    > unavailable to him, namely horibars.


    I guess I did make it up ;)
    The top crap is just an accordion, of course, but the content is really all on one page, a wide one ;), and scrolls in on the
    link click.


    --
    Double parked on the corner of Null and Void.
     
    idle, Aug 17, 2010
    #7
  8. William Gill

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    idle <> wrote:

    > On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:33:41 +1000, dorayme wrote in alt.html:
    >
    > > In article <>,
    > > idle <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:42:45 +1000, dorayme wrote in alt.html:
    > >>
    > >>> In article <>,
    > >>> idle <> wrote:
    > >>>

    > > ...
    > >>> The point about scrollbars is that if they come up, it is
    > >>> information for a user to open up the browser more if he can and
    > >>> if he does not want to horiscroll. In other words, horiscolling
    > >>> is not absolutely bad if the user can reasonably be expected to
    > >>> be able to avoid it or if it is very hard to avoid by the author.
    > >>
    > >> Not bad, but if avoidable, better.
    > >> I'm preferring the method of utilizing the slide technique.
    > >> http://demo.wpbakery.com/movement_html/

    > >
    > > This "slide technique" - did you make this phrase up? - just
    > > means the user has one less (and possibly crucial) facility
    > > unavailable to him, namely horibars.

    >
    > I guess I did make it up ;)
    > The top crap is just an accordion, of course, but the content is really all
    > on one page, a wide one ;), and scrolls in on the
    > link click.


    Just so much better with styles disabled! Wonder what Korpela's
    experimental stylesheet would do to it (See ciwas recently)? I
    might look soon.

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Aug 17, 2010
    #8
  9. William Gill

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    dorayme <> wrote:

    > In article <>,
    > idle <> wrote:
    >

    ....
    > > >> I'm preferring the method of utilizing the slide technique.
    > > >> http://demo.wpbakery.com/movement_html/


    >
    > Just so much better with styles disabled!


    Er... I should have added really that maybe some people would
    like this sort of thing, hope my irritable sensibilities at too
    much web page movement did not offend you!

    > Wonder what Korpela's
    > experimental stylesheet would do to it (See ciwas recently)? I
    > might look soon.


    Had a look using Korpela's thought experiment css user sheet:

    <http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/styles/semantic-test.html>

    (See recent thread at ciwas)

    and it was much easier to look at (for my irritable
    sensitivities) than with all its author given css cylinders
    firing. It was even better (in this case at least) than merely
    disabling all styles. Disabling all styles in Firefox (with Web
    Developer tools) still left pictures sliding in and out.

    Why am I advertising this korpela sheet? Because, if he has taken
    it off his server, I have a copy and am prepared to *sell it* it
    to you suckers at alt.html. <g>

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Aug 18, 2010
    #9
  10. William Gill

    idle Guest

    On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 09:20:49 +1000, dorayme wrote in alt.html:

    > In article <>,
    > dorayme <> wrote:
    >
    >> In article <>,
    >> idle <> wrote:
    >>

    > ...
    >>> >> I'm preferring the method of utilizing the slide technique.
    >>> >> http://demo.wpbakery.com/movement_html/

    >
    >>
    >> Just so much better with styles disabled!

    >
    > Er... I should have added really that maybe some people would
    > like this sort of thing, hope my irritable sensibilities at too
    > much web page movement did not offend you!
    >
    >> Wonder what Korpela's
    >> experimental stylesheet would do to it (See ciwas recently)? I
    >> might look soon.

    >
    > Had a look using Korpela's thought experiment css user sheet:
    >
    > <http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/styles/semantic-test.html>
    >
    > (See recent thread at ciwas)
    >
    > and it was much easier to look at (for my irritable
    > sensitivities) than with all its author given css cylinders
    > firing. It was even better (in this case at least) than merely
    > disabling all styles. Disabling all styles in Firefox (with Web
    > Developer tools) still left pictures sliding in and out.
    >
    > Why am I advertising this korpela sheet? Because, if he has taken
    > it off his server, I have a copy and am prepared to *sell it* it
    > to you suckers at alt.html. <g>


    LOL
    Nah, I got a thick one. Skin that is.
    Was just pointing out the html5 movement that's becoming more and more popular.
    Did you mean this one?
    http://www.dev-archive.net/articles/faq/ciwas-aFAQ.html


    --
    idle
    A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths.
     
    idle, Aug 18, 2010
    #10
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