Where does one get help??

[Al Jones]

I've thrown a couple of question up here as I'm trying to learn how to use
(x)html and css to make a reasonable looking web site, as well as do some
'stuff'. More just for the fun of it than anything serious.

Since I'm still at the stage of 'I don't know what questions to ask.' it
makes it difficult to know where to go look for the information I need to
get to the point that I can ask an intelligent question.

My reading of this newgroup is that, with a very few exceptions, you'd
rather be sarcastic and argumentative than genuinely helpful, so where
does one go to get current information that is workable to a 'newbie'.

I've worked more than a couple of the tutorials (and had the same problem
with one that another user has and that you all are ignoring).

I don't (yet?) have a web site, and have said so in the messages I've
posted, so the 'URL?' response is just, to me an indication that we're
wasting each others time. If you won't read the messages I *do* post the
why bother with 'URL?'

Maybe I post too much code, tell me so. Maybe I don't post enough, again
tell me. Maybe my code is a pile of shit - agin, tell me, but since I've
said I'm new to this I'd really appreciate a link to something that
adresses *my* issue and helps me straighten it out.

The one item that did get a couple of responses (and some appreciated out
of forum help) is till non-workable and I'm (and another of this group is)
at a loss as to why. ((it's the banner on a tableless layout the has two
'soldier' to the left and right of some text.))

just sign me 'frustrated'!

Fire at Gridly, Will!

 

[Travis Newbury]

My reading of this newgroup is that, with a very few exceptions, you'd
rather be sarcastic and argumentative than genuinely helpful, so where
does one go to get current information that is workable to a

'newbie'.

Just ask the question. This is not a help desk. It is a discussion
group. You ask a question, we throw it back an forth, and eventually
it turns into an argument, everyone gets bored, and the thread ends.

If at some point in time an answer should appear, then you win.

The "shortness" you perceive is because newbies tend to all ask the
same questions over and over. They would save everyone a lot of
problems if they just learned to use google and searched for the
answer.

Then there are those newbies that argue because they don't like the
answer (happens all the time with anything conrtoversial like Frames,
Flash, or Javascript) "how do I use frames" Well one corect answer is
"you don't" No matter if you like it or not, that is a correct answer.

There is a link you see every now and then "why we don't answer your
questions" that you can find by googling the group for those words.
It will give a better explination of what you are refering to here.
Oh, and welcome to the group. (f'ing newbie)

 

[Al Jones]

'newbie'.

Just ask the question. This is not a help desk. It is a discussion
group. You ask a question, we throw it back an forth, and eventually
it turns into an argument, everyone gets bored, and the thread ends.

I know that this isn't a help desk, and I've gone through the archives
(would someone point me to a good archive site, I've found a couple but
they seem to be sketchy) that show on google - but I don't do frustration
well.

If at some point in time an answer should appear, then you win.

The "shortness" you perceive is because newbies tend to all ask the
same questions over and over. They would save everyone a lot of
problems if they just learned to use google and searched for the
answer.

Believe it or not, I recognize that, too ... I've googled a couple of
issues till I'm blue in the face but obviously I don't know enough to
google the 'right' thing.

Then there are those newbies that argue because they don't like the
answer (happens all the time with anything conrtoversial like Frames,
Flash, or Javascript) "how do I use frames" Well one corect answer is
"you don't" No matter if you like it or not, that is a correct answer.

Frames - what's a frame?? ((facetious)) I've read enough to know<?> that
the way of doing things isn't in frames. Although one project I'm playing
with happens to be frame based because, at the moment *I* don't know
enough to see an alternative. I can see that css-p is the way to go, and
in another project I have it's working like a champ - much smaller code
than the Dreamweaver (nightmare) I started with.

There is a link you see every now and then "why we don't answer your
questions" that you can find by googling the group for those words.
It will give a better explination of what you are refering to here.
Oh, and welcome to the group. (f'ing newbie)

Thanks for the reply, even if I do object to the adjective

 

[Travis Newbury]

Thanks for the reply, even if I do object to the adjective

And it is good that you took it in the way it was presented.
Now what was your question anyway?

 

[nice.guy.nige]

While the city slept, Travis Newbury ([email protected]) feverishly
typed...

[...]

Oh, and welcome to the group.
Oi!

(f'ing newbie)

That's better! ;-)

Cheers,
Nige

 

[Blinky the Shark]

I've thrown a couple of question up here as I'm trying to learn how to
use (x)html and css to make a reasonable looking web site, as well as
do some 'stuff'. More just for the fun of it than anything serious.

Since I'm still at the stage of 'I don't know what questions to ask.'
it makes it difficult to know where to go look for the information I
need to get to the point that I can ask an intelligent question.

My reading of this newgroup is that, with a very few exceptions, you'd
rather be sarcastic and argumentative than genuinely helpful, so where
does one go to get current information that is workable to a 'newbie'.

I'm pretty much a lurker, here, Al, because I have a lot to learn, too.
From what I've seen, the responses generally take on the tone of the
seeker. Come in with a chip on your shoulder, and you'll probably not
be treated the way you had in mind. That's not a personal accusation; I
don't know your posting history here; it's a general observation.

The other category I see is, "Hi! I'm using FrontPage and..." being
answered (usally mid-sentence <g>) by, "Well, stop that." Then the
OP gets his panties in a bunch and won't see that that *is* help from
someone (usually more than one) who knows more than he does.

While it's not a feel-good group ("Great game! You lost 35 to 0, but you
all played a GREAT GAME! Let's go have ice cream!"), and it shouldn't
be, as it's a tech group -- it's not a Markup Coders Death Match group,
either.

 

[jake]

I've thrown a couple of question up here as I'm trying to learn how to
use (x)html and css to make a reasonable looking web site, as well as
do some 'stuff'. More just for the fun of it than anything serious.

Since I'm still at the stage of 'I don't know what questions to ask.'
it makes it difficult to know where to go look for the information I
need to get to the point that I can ask an intelligent question.

My reading of this newgroup is that, with a very few exceptions, you'd
rather be sarcastic and argumentative than genuinely helpful, so where
does one go to get current information that is workable to a 'newbie'.

I've worked more than a couple of the tutorials (and had the same
problem with one that another user has and that you all are ignoring).

I don't (yet?) have a web site, and have said so in the messages I've
posted, so the 'URL?' response is just, to me an indication that we're
wasting each others time. If you won't read the messages I *do* post
the why bother with 'URL?'

Maybe I post too much code, tell me so. Maybe I don't post enough,
again tell me. Maybe my code is a pile of shit - agin, tell me, but
since I've said I'm new to this I'd really appreciate a link to
something that adresses *my* issue and helps me straighten it out.

The one item that did get a couple of responses (and some appreciated
out of forum help) is till non-workable and I'm (and another of this
group is) at a loss as to why. ((it's the banner on a tableless
layout the has two 'soldier' to the left and right of some text.))

just sign me 'frustrated'!

Fire at Gridly, Will!

I wouldn't take it too personally.

You'll come across all kinds in this group -- the helpful, the
not-so-helpful, the egotists, the evangelists -- yep, all kinds.

Just ask your questions and see what responses you get; if they're of
any use -- well, that's a bonus ;-)

So. What's your outstanding problems?

regards.

 

[Uncle Pirate]

'newbie'.

Just ask the question. This is not a help desk. It is a discussion
group. You ask a question, we throw it back an forth, and eventually
it turns into an argument, everyone gets bored, and the thread ends.

If at some point in time an answer should appear, then you win.

The "shortness" you perceive is because newbies tend to all ask the
same questions over and over. They would save everyone a lot of
problems if they just learned to use google and searched for the
answer.

Then there are those newbies that argue because they don't like the
answer (happens all the time with anything conrtoversial like Frames,
Flash, or Javascript) "how do I use frames" Well one corect answer is
"you don't" No matter if you like it or not, that is a correct answer.

There is a link you see every now and then "why we don't answer your
questions" that you can find by googling the group for those words.
It will give a better explination of what you are refering to here.
Oh, and welcome to the group. (f'ing newbie)

I was about to anser Al when I read your answer Travis. Good answer,
just about what I was going to say. The only thing I was going to say
that you didn't (although you said similar) is that the two newbies that
Al spoke of are only two of the hundreds, if not thousands of newbies
coming here thinking that we just sit here waiting to teach newbies how
to write HTML. I get paid to do my teaching in the classroom, not on a
newsgroup. With that said, there's lots to learn here if you just pay
attention and are willing to learn.

This newsgroup is NOT here to teach HTML, if you want to learn HTML, go
buy a book or go take a class. I can see I'm going to have to find a
way to add TANSTAAFL (There Ain't No Such Thing AS A Free Lunch) to my
sig without making it too much longer.

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
Cooordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein

 

[Duende]

While sitting in a puddle Al Jones scribbled in the mud:

I don't (yet?) have a web site, and have said so in the messages I've
posted, so the 'URL?' response is just, to me an indication that we're
wasting each others time. If you won't read the messages I *do* post the
why bother with 'URL?'

Why not go get a free host that you can upload your problem pages to. Most
people find it much easier to help you if they can see the problem. Not many
people here want to copy your code and save it as a page just to see what
you're talking about.

Anywat good luck on your new site.

 

[Blinky the Shark]

While sitting in a puddle Al Jones scribbled in the mud:

Why not go get a free host that you can upload your problem pages to. Most
people find it much easier to help you if they can see the problem. Not many

OP: there's a good chance that your ISP provides some free space, unless
you're off in some place like Kamchatka, or perhaps the UK.

 

[Dylan Parry]

OP: there's a good chance that your ISP provides some free space, unless
you're off in some place like Kamchatka, or perhaps the UK.

Heh! Most UK ISPs will provide their customers with say 20Mb of free
space, but unfortunately they either don't tell you that they provide it
or don't tell you how to use it. In my experience, UK ISPs make it as
difficult as possible to use any of their features other than simple
online access!

 

[Mark Parnell]

it's not a Markup Coders Death Match group,
either.

What? Did I miss that memo? Fine, back to alt.html.coders.death-match
then.

 

[Uncle Pirate]

Heh! Most UK ISPs will provide their customers with say 20Mb of free
space, but unfortunately they either don't tell you that they provide it
or don't tell you how to use it. In my experience, UK ISPs make it as
difficult as possible to use any of their features other than simple
online access!

It's not unique to the UK. Especially, if the ISP is running M$. They
have enough problems keeping thier servers secure without actually
allowing users to use them.

--
Stan McCann "Uncle Pirate" http://stanmccann.us/pirate.html
Webmaster/Computer Center Manager, NMSU at Alamogordo
Cooordinator, Tularosa Basin Chapter, ABATE of NM; AMA#758681; COBB
'94 1500 Vulcan (now wrecked) http://motorcyclefun.org/Dcp_2068c.jpg
A zest for living must include a willingness to die. - R.A. Heinlein

 

[Blinky the Shark]

Previously in alt.html, Blinky the Shark <[email protected]> said:

What? Did I miss that memo? Fine, back to alt.html.coders.death-match
then.

It's always struck me as odd that that's a moderated group.

 

[Blinky the Shark]

Blinky the Shark wrote:

Heh! Most UK ISPs will provide their customers with say 20Mb of free
space, but unfortunately they either don't tell you that they provide
it or don't tell you how to use it. In my experience, UK ISPs make it
as difficult as possible to use any of their features other than
simple online access!

Earthlink handles this is weirdly, IMO, in one respect. They give you,
IIRC, 40MB of space, and if you don't know how to use it you can use
their templates for the photos of your kiddies'n'kats gallery; but the
space is split up as 5MB each for eight identities. IOW, with your
account, you can have 8 mailboxes - one for every one of the
kiddies'n'kats - and each of those "accounts" gets the little 5MB space,
and if there's only one of you you can't combine it.

 

[Duende]

While sitting in a puddle Uncle Pirate scribbled in the mud:

It's not unique to the UK. Especially, if the ISP is running M$. They
have enough problems keeping thier servers secure without actually
allowing users to use them.

I have SBC dsl and they give me 1gig of online storage (no ftp) but I can't
use it for a website. For that they give me geocities.

 

[Toby Inkster]

My reading of this newgroup is that, with a very few exceptions, you'd
rather be sarcastic and argumentative than genuinely helpful, so where
does one go to get current information that is workable to a 'newbie'.

In general, if:

1. you follow the posting conventions of this newsgroup;
2. you don't ask a question that was asked in the last 7 days;
3. the answer isn't *easily* obtainable via Google; and
4. you seem to have made an effort to figure it out for yourself

then you are likely to get good answers.

 

[Mark Parnell]

It's always struck me as odd that that's a moderated group.

It's rigged, I tell you!

 

[Travis Newbury]

It's not unique to the UK. Especially, if the ISP is running M$. They
have enough problems keeping thier servers secure without actually
allowing users to use them.

And this is the point in the thread where it branches into a love/hate
relationship with Microsoft.....

If we're quiet, and hide behind these on topic threads, we will soon see
someone sneaking a Flash menu into the conversation...

Shh... Quite now... here it comes...

 

[Al Jones]

And it is good that you took it in the way it was presented.
Now what was your question anyway?

Thanks Travis (and everyone else .... )

I've diddled this exercise several different ways. All I'm looking at
right now is the banner at the top of the page (pointers on how to do away
with the frames *are* appreciated).

Problem being, I am simply unable to get the two soldiers on the screen to
appear over the background and at the top of the page. One of your
cohorts took a look at it, and sent it back to me the next day with 'Well,
I got it to work using a table in the banner.' So I don't feel so bad
.... IE6 almost doess what I want, FF and Opera 8 put the Soldiers behind
the background <huh??>. I realize the soldiers are too large and do have
copies cut down to about 1/2 what they currently are - but that's minor.

I have another project - javascript - that has my attention at the moment
(this is *my* toy, the other is a paying customer).

I've looked at similar setups, but don't see how it's done without some
container for each part of the screen. Tables - no - because the content
of the various letters (the right hand portion) varies from one and two
liners to several screens-ful. Frames - not particularly because I think
it canbe done more cleanly with css-p.

Now that's too much said ... comments??