which c++ book i am not able to get Accelerated C++

[arnuld]

hai folks,

well, it's me again and again, i am asking questions. anyway, with
your help i have finalised that i will start learning c++ (as you told
me that i do not need to know any OO language before c++). that was 15
days ago IIRC. now that with my skill set i went on to search for a
good book. my knowledge is limited to the following:

1.) "A gentle introduction to symbolic computation" - David S.
Touretzky

2.) "Practical Common LISP" - Peter Seibel

3.) "Prograing Ground up" - Jonathan Barlett.

last one is an assembly language book and i have read 1st 5 chapters
untill now. his style is good but author made his book too tight. so i
am not able to follow him on chapter 6. i started learning assembly
because i thought it's helpfull in learning pointers. i am thinking of
doing "Art of Assembly" by Randell Hyde before doing c++ but that is
not the question i am putting in front of you folks. actually i am
quite skeptical about doing c++ without learning assembly.

now, before asking question, as usaual i searched archives of
comp.lang.c++, alt.comp.lang.learn-c-c++, C++ FAQS and ACCU reviews.
then i made a list of books to purchase in order of priority. 1st one
was Accelerated C++, then some STL book by Josuttis then TC++PL 3rd
edition by stroustrup. unfortunately Accelerated C++ is not available
in India. i tried Google, Online Indian Publishers and everything but
was not able to find it. si i decided learning from C++ primer by
Lippman but i was put off by the ACCU review of it. at some point ACCU
says:

"the assumption being that the reader already has some experience with
a procedural programming language"

so i thought i am unfortunate because C++ primer is available in India
but i do not possess that background. also ACCU review of "C++ primer
Plus" is also the bad one.

i am not a newbie to programming as i have told you earlier. so what
book for me regarding c++? or you still say C++ primer/Prier Plus are
good ones, for me ?

any views.

thanks

-- arnuld

 

[mlimber]

hai folks,

well, it's me again and again, i am asking questions. anyway, with
your help i have finalised that i will start learning c++ (as you told
me that i do not need to know any OO language before c++). that was 15
days ago IIRC. now that with my skill set i went on to search for a
good book. my knowledge is limited to the following:

1.) "A gentle introduction to symbolic computation" - David S.
Touretzky

2.) "Practical Common LISP" - Peter Seibel

3.) "Prograing Ground up" - Jonathan Barlett.

last one is an assembly language book and i have read 1st 5 chapters
untill now. his style is good but author made his book too tight. so i
am not able to follow him on chapter 6. i started learning assembly
because i thought it's helpfull in learning pointers. i am thinking of
doing "Art of Assembly" by Randell Hyde before doing c++ but that is
not the question i am putting in front of you folks. actually i am
quite skeptical about doing c++ without learning assembly.

now, before asking question, as usaual i searched archives of
comp.lang.c++, alt.comp.lang.learn-c-c++, C++ FAQS and ACCU reviews.
then i made a list of books to purchase in order of priority. 1st one
was Accelerated C++, then some STL book by Josuttis then TC++PL 3rd
edition by stroustrup. unfortunately Accelerated C++ is not available
in India. i tried Google, Online Indian Publishers and everything but
was not able to find it. si i decided learning from C++ primer by
Lippman but i was put off by the ACCU review of it. at some point ACCU
says:

"the assumption being that the reader already has some experience with
a procedural programming language"

so i thought i am unfortunate because C++ primer is available in India
but i do not possess that background. also ACCU review of "C++ primer
Plus" is also the bad one.

i am not a newbie to programming as i have told you earlier. so what
book for me regarding c++? or you still say C++ primer/Prier Plus are
good ones, for me ?

any views.

thanks

-- arnuld

First, assembly is not a prerequisite for C++. Like may other things,
the background could be helpful depending on your application area, but
if you want to learn C++/OO, just learn C++/OO.

As for a C++ book, _Accelerated C++_ will probably be the best for you.
Why can't you order it from Amazon.com or some other web retailer? (I
ask out of ignorance.)

Cheers! --M

 

[arnuld]

First, assembly is not a prerequisite for C++. Like may other things,

the background could be helpful depending on your application area, but
if you want to learn C++/OO, just learn C++/OO.

ok, i agree on this.i want to learn Assembly because it is HARDEST of
all & after that everything becomes easier. I remember when i was
learning LISP from PCL (gigamonkeys.com/book), words like "stack
unwinds", "exception handeling", "difference between CONS cells and a
list" were far beyond my understanding. I wanted to do a job as a
programmer to start earning but was not able to understand programming,
LISP got me started (no not SCHEME, not Python, not even BASIC, i tried
all of these but FORTRAN looked much friendly). i have come a long way
since FEB-2005. now here is the answer to your question:

-- i do not want to spend all of my next 6 months in confusion (like my
past), rather i want to be prepared well before tackeling anything
*hard*. C++ is hard, huge & heavy language like LISP. i have choosen
C++ becuase of job issue. I know it will get my foot into the corporate
world. so i *fear* of memory-management, i fear of pointers, these are
things that exist at very low-level, hardware level, therefore i
thought i should learn assembly. even FAQS dont talk about this, FAQS
talk about learning C/smalltalk first or not & legality, morality
guides for C++ etc. --


still, what do you say?

As for a C++ book, _Accelerated C++_ will probably be the best for you.
Why can't you order it from Amazon.com or some other web retailer? (I
ask out of ignorance.)

i can not purchase books form "amazon.com" as they are very expensive
for me. i spent all the money i had on ordering "HtDP", "SICP" & "GNU
Emacs Manual" from amazon.com. but what, HtDp (@ www.htdp.org) had cost
me $69 = 3500 INR (indian rupee), where as in India it costs 400 INR
only. a big difference. i dont have any money left & i am jobless too.
so i can only purchase what is available in my country (INDIA) like C++
Primer, C++ Primer Plus, TC++PL 3rd edition by Stroustrup & 100s of
more C++ books but not Accelerated C++. i dont know anything about
other 100s & ACCU doesnt like C++ Primer Plus by Stephen Prata, ACCU
says C++ Primer by Lippman is for people who have experienced
procedural programming before. Stroustrup is for Reference, C++ in 21
days, Aaaaaaaaargh, i dont like 21 days books, they are not good for
brain and these were only ones recommended by "comp.lang.c++ /
alt.lang.learn-c-c++". also i do not have any library near me, not even
within next 10,00 miles. so i am lost & that is why i asked for further
comments/views on C++ Primer & C++ Primer Plus & some more suggestions
of books for people like me who have programming experience with little
bit of OOP (CLOS) experience and nothing at all.


well, it went lengthy, *thanks* for reading my problems.

-- arnuld

 

[Noah Roberts]

ok, i agree on this.i want to learn Assembly because it is HARDEST of
all & after that everything becomes easier.

I doubt it. There is just plain not much similar between asm and
higher level languages. Things like stack vs. heap are details you
learn over time and not really important to a beginner. Eventually you
will learn how things work even if you can't implement them in machine
code. Assembler is of use in very few areas anymore and most often
used in conjunction with a higher level language.

Frankly, there isn't anything "harder" about assembler. It's just
tedious...very, VERY tedious. It's also very difficult to maintain.

Learn asm when and if you ever need it. I learned it in a college
class and then have never used it again. It's just a rarely used tool
as there are much better available for most tasks.

 

[arnuld]

Things like stack vs. heap are details you

learn over time and not really important to a beginner. Eventually you
will learn how things work even if you can't implement them in machine
code.

well, i didn't know that.

Assembler is of use in very few areas anymore and most often
used in conjunction with a higher level language.

that's pretty right.

Frankly, there isn't anything "harder" about assembler. It's just
tedious...very, VERY tedious. It's also very difficult to maintain.

*tediuos* is the right word for assembler.

i remember. you also gave me advice on my previuos post. i am just
doing assembly from "Jonathan Bartlett's" book. it has oly 14 chapters
and 3-4 of them are of general type and i am past 6 chapters, so i
will take just 10-15 days more to finish it. it's not a long time as
compared to "Randell Hyde's AoA" which takes 4-5 months to finish. i
wanted to understand how memory-management works at a lower level so
that i can understand *pointer* & *memory-management* in C++. anyway i
can put 15 days more, 15 days doen't matter much.

my *original* question is lost, it was:

i can not purchase books form "amazon.com" as they are very expensive
for me. i spent all the money i had on ordering "HtDP", "SICP" & "GNU
Emacs Manual" from amazon.com. but what, HtDp (@ www.htdp.org) had cost
me $69 = 3500 INR (indian rupee), where as in India it costs 400 INR
only. a big difference. i dont have any money left & i am jobless too.

so i can only purchase what is available in my country (INDIA) like
C++ Primer, C++ Primer Plus, TC++PL 3rd edition by Stroustrup & 100s of
more C++ books but not Accelerated C++. i dont know anything about
other 100s & ACCU doesnt like C++ Primer Plus by Stephen Prata, ACCU
says C++ Primer by Lippman is for people who have experienced
procedural programming before. Stroustrup is for Reference, C++ in 21
days, Aaaaaaaaargh, i dont like 21 days books, they are not good for
brain and these were only ones recommended by "comp.lang.c++ /
alt.lang.learn-c-c++". also i do not have any library near me, not
even within next 10,00 miles.

so i am lost & that is why i asked for further comments/views on C++
Primer & C++ Primer Plus & some more suggestions of books for people
like me who have programming experience along with little bit of OOP
(CLOS) experience and nothing at all.

 

[=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Erik_Wikstr=F6m?=]

i remember. you also gave me advice on my previuos post. i am just
doing assembly from "Jonathan Bartlett's" book. it has oly 14 chapters
and 3-4 of them are of general type and i am past 6 chapters, so i
will take just 10-15 days more to finish it. it's not a long time as
compared to "Randell Hyde's AoA" which takes 4-5 months to finish. i
wanted to understand how memory-management works at a lower level so
that i can understand *pointer* & *memory-management* in C++. anyway i
can put 15 days more, 15 days doen't matter much.

Pointers can be a bit tricky before you get them, and it might take a
quite some time before you get all the details, but a good book (perhaps
with some illustrations) and perhaps a little bit searching on the net
should teach you most of what you know in a few hours.

As to memory-management, you don't have to know about stacks and heaps
to be able to program, what you need to understand is how automatic
variables differ from those on the free store. How they are created, how
and when they are destroyed and such, none of which assembly can help
you much with.

my *original* question is lost, it was:

i can not purchase books form "amazon.com" as they are very expensive
for me. i spent all the money i had on ordering "HtDP", "SICP" & "GNU
Emacs Manual" from amazon.com. but what, HtDp (@ www.htdp.org) had cost
me $69 = 3500 INR (indian rupee), where as in India it costs 400 INR
only. a big difference. i dont have any money left & i am jobless too.

so i can only purchase what is available in my country (INDIA) like
C++ Primer, C++ Primer Plus, TC++PL 3rd edition by Stroustrup & 100s of
more C++ books but not Accelerated C++. i dont know anything about
other 100s & ACCU doesnt like C++ Primer Plus by Stephen Prata, ACCU
says C++ Primer by Lippman is for people who have experienced
procedural programming before. Stroustrup is for Reference, C++ in 21
days, Aaaaaaaaargh, i dont like 21 days books, they are not good for
brain and these were only ones recommended by "comp.lang.c++ /
alt.lang.learn-c-c++". also i do not have any library near me, not
even within next 10,00 miles.

so i am lost & that is why i asked for further comments/views on C++
Primer & C++ Primer Plus & some more suggestions of books for people
like me who have programming experience along with little bit of OOP
(CLOS) experience and nothing at all.

I have only read TC++PL so I can't tell you how good the others are, but
since C++ Primer by Lippman & Lajoie has been rated as highly
recommended it's probably a good start. Later when you think you have
learned most of what's in it you can go on and buy a second, more
advanced, book like TC++PL. As for C++ Primer Plus I've never heard
anyone say anything good about it so you should probably avoid it.

Erik Wikström

 

[mlimber]

ok, i agree on this.i want to learn Assembly because it is HARDEST of
all & after that everything becomes easier.

I agree with Noah's comments, and I would only add that assembly is not
a very portable skill since each processor has its own instruction set.
For instance, the assembly for the DSP I'm working on as half of my
current project looks nothing like the assembler for the Pentium that
runs the other half. The C++ code, however, looks the same.

C++ is hard, huge & heavy language like LISP.

Hard*er*, methinks, but also more powerful for most applications.

so i *fear* of memory-management, i fear of pointers, these are
things that exist at very low-level, hardware level, therefore i
thought i should learn assembly.

_Accelerated C++_ teaches C++ well. It teaches C++'s extensive
facilities for automatically handling memory management, which should
be what you use most of the time, in chapters 1-9 and then addresses
pointers and manual memory management in chapter 10. This is the best
way to learn it, IMHO.

i can not purchase books form "amazon.com" as they are very expensive
for me. i spent all the money i had on ordering "HtDP", "SICP" & "GNU
Emacs Manual" from amazon.com. but what, HtDp (@ www.htdp.org) had cost
me $69 = 3500 INR (indian rupee), where as in India it costs 400 INR
only. a big difference. i dont have any money left & i am jobless too.
so i can only purchase what is available in my country (INDIA) like C++
Primer, C++ Primer Plus, TC++PL 3rd edition by Stroustrup & 100s of
more C++ books but not Accelerated C++. i dont know anything about
other 100s & ACCU doesnt like C++ Primer Plus by Stephen Prata, ACCU
says C++ Primer by Lippman is for people who have experienced
procedural programming before. Stroustrup is for Reference, C++ in 21
days, Aaaaaaaaargh, i dont like 21 days books, they are not good for
brain and these were only ones recommended by "comp.lang.c++ /
alt.lang.learn-c-c++".

Lippmann and Lajoie's _C++ Primer_ 3rd ed is rated highly by ACCU, and
so if you must buy a book that is not Koenig and Moo's, go with that.
Since budget is a big issue for you, perhaps you would be interested in
the *free* _Thinking in C++_ by Eckel (see the good review at
http://brian.accu.org/bookreviews/public/reviews/t/t002005.htm). Both
volumes can be downloaded at:

http://www.mindview.net/Books/TICPP/ThinkingInCPP2e.html

Cheers! --M

 

[arnuld]

Hard*er*, methinks, but also more powerful for most applications.

wow, now i got it, C++ is hard*er*.

_Accelerated C++_ teaches C++ well. It teaches C++'s extensive
facilities for automatically handling memory management, which should
be what you use most of the time, in chapters 1-9 and then addresses
pointers and manual memory management in chapter 10. This is the best
way to learn it, IMHO.

exactly opposite to what i thought but from my common-sense &
experience with programming, you are *right*.

Lippmann and Lajoie's _C++ Primer_ 3rd ed is rated highly by ACCU, and
so if you must buy a book that is not Koenig and Moo's, go with that.
Since budget is a big issue for you, perhaps you would be interested in
the *free* _Thinking in C++_ by Eckel (see the good review at
http://brian.accu.org/bookreviews/public/reviews/t/t002005.htm). Both
volumes can be downloaded at:

http://www.mindview.net/Books/TICPP/ThinkingInCPP2e.html

I got your point on *if you must buy a book that is not Koenig and
Moo's, go with that*. regarding Eckel's book, he assumes reader
already understands C which i don't and i don't want to. as i told you,
i understand general programming & LISP only with some assembly (GAS)
and nothing else, so i think, Eckel' books are not of any use to me.
anyway, thanks for the link. you are quite helpful person.

thanks again

-- arnuld

 

[mlimber]

I got your point on *if you must buy a book that is not Koenig and
Moo's, go with that*. regarding Eckel's book, he assumes reader
already understands C which i don't and i don't want to. as i told you,
i understand general programming & LISP only with some assembly (GAS)
and nothing else, so i think, Eckel' books are not of any use to me.

In the "Prerequisites" section to volume 1, Eckel says, "In the first
edition of this book, I decided to assume that someone else had taught
you C and that you have at least a reading level of comfort with it. My
primary focus was on simplifying what I found difficult: the C++
language. In this edition I have added a chapter that is a rapid
introduction to C, along with the Thinking in C seminar-on-CD [this
only comes with the print edition], but I am still assuming that you
already have some kind of programming experience. In addition, just as
you learn many new words intuitively by seeing them in context in a
novel, it's possible to learn a great deal about C from the context
in which it is used in the rest of the book."

Take his last sentence to heart. I think you should give it a try, and
see how it works for you. You can always ask questions here (or perhaps
in comp.lang.c) if you get lost. It's a shame you can't get ahold of
_Accelerated C++_, though; it sounds to me like it would really be the
best for you.

Cheers! --M

 

[arnuld]

Take his last sentence to heart. I think you should give it a try, and

see how it works for you.

OK, i will give it a try.

It's a shame you can't get ahold of _Accelerated C++_, though;
it sounds to me like it would really be the best for you.

If i will be able to arrange some money,then i will definitely buy
"Accelerated C++" but unfortunately such chances are much less.