Which IDE to choose (more specific than earlier, very similar post)?

[Gelmir Tinehtelë]

Hello guys,

I'm C++/Windows programmer and I'd like to smoothly switch to Java. I read
replies to earlier, very similar post, but I didn't even hear about such
IDEs :-(
My question is following: using what IDE can I easily create applets with
controls like edit, list, combo boxes, buttons, tree controls and - this is
very important - have support to draw 3D graphics? Some time ago I was using
Borland JBuilder, but I guess it was not intended for building commercial
releases. I was browsing Sun Microsystems' site and found free "Sun Java
Studio Creator, Early Access". Can I create in it commercial applets using
features that I described above? If not, please advise me something free or
really good enough (read: easy to develop applets) to spend money IDE;
preferably free of course
Generally I focused on "Sun Java Studio Creator, Early Access", but I'm
waiting for your replies.
Please reply, your opinion is crucial for me.

Regards

P.S. I'm not going to create server-side applets. I will be doing applets
run in web browser.

 

[Thomas Weidenfeller]

My question is following: using what IDE can I easily create applets

Consider writing Java applications instead. If you have a need for
deployment via the internet, deploy the application with Java WebStart
(comes with Java).

with
controls like edit, list, combo boxes, buttons, tree controls and

"control" is a Windows term. Please consider adapting the usual
terminology. The general, not-java specific term is widgets. In Java
terminology, these are subclasses of Component.

When you change to Java, plan some time to learn about layout managers.
Positioning and sizing widgets in Java is quite different from doing so
in Windows. Some people will tell you to ignore layout managers. This is
bad advice. You will end up with non cross-platform compatible programs.

- this is
very important - have support to draw 3D graphics?

Java comes with a rich 2D (not 3D) API. You have to check if this is a
sufficient base to build your 3D drawings. Java also has a 3D extension.
However, I have never seen reports that anyone used that in an applet.
An application instead of an applet sounds more reasonable to me. There
is also a Java OpenGL binding out there which might be of use for you.

Since you asked about IDEs, Java's 3D capabilities are not a matter of
an IDE. They are a matter of which additional API you want to use.

Some time ago I was using
Borland JBuilder, but I guess it was not intended for building commercial
releases.

The quality of your application/applet does not depend on your IDE. it
depends on your skills. The IDE is just a tool. There is no technical
limitation in the many JBuilder versions which would prevent you from
building a commercial program. There might be license restrictions in
the free version, which should not be in the commercial versions. Many,
many people have successfully released commercial programs build with
JBuilder.

I was browsing Sun Microsystems' site and found free "Sun Java
Studio Creator, Early Access". Can I create in it commercial applets using
features that I described above? If not, please advise me something free or
really good enough (read: easy to develop applets) to spend money IDE;
preferably free of course

The IDE question has been asked so often, why don't you just read an
archive of this group and try some? Since we don't know your individual
preferences and requirements, anyone giving you a name is just doing
some random guessing, anyway.

In principle, the Java 2 SDK from Sun, and a text editor is all you need
to do some development. It is inconvenient but not impossible.

P.S. I'm not going to create server-side applets. I will be doing applets
run in web browser.

There is no such thing as "server-site applets" in Java. And again,
consider an application instead of an applet.

/Thomas

 

[Aidan]

Java comes with a rich 2D (not 3D) API. You have to check if this is a
sufficient base to build your 3D drawings. Java also has a 3D extension.
However, I have never seen reports that anyone used that in an applet.
An application instead of an applet sounds more reasonable to me.

Why not in an applet?

 

[Bryce]

I'm C++/Windows programmer and I'd like to smoothly switch to Java. I read
replies to earlier, very similar post, but I didn't even hear about such
IDEs :-(

Why don't you try them out and make a decision on what YOU prefer.

My question is following: using what IDE can I easily create applets with
controls like edit, list, combo boxes, buttons, tree controls and - this is
very important - have support to draw 3D graphics?

Most have t his support, either natively or via plugins.

Some time ago I was using
Borland JBuilder, but I guess it was not intended for building commercial
releases.

Why do you say that?

I was browsing Sun Microsystems' site and found free "Sun Java
Studio Creator, Early Access". Can I create in it commercial applets using
features that I described above? If not, please advise me something free or
really good enough (read: easy to develop applets) to spend money IDE;
preferably free of course

Netbeans, Eclipse (with plugins) just to name 2

 

[Gelmir Tinehtelë]

"control" is a Windows term. Please consider adapting the usual
terminology. The general, not-java specific term is widgets. In Java
terminology, these are subclasses of Component.

Yes, that's right - I will try to remember keeping proper terminology on
Java newsgroups although I think it is not relevant if everyone knows what
is what
By saying "switch to Java" I didn't mean to say that I'm doing it for good -
still I'm a (hard)core Windows C++ programmer, temporarily switching to
Java.

When you change to Java, plan some time to learn about layout managers.
Positioning and sizing widgets in Java is quite different from doing so
in Windows. Some people will tell you to ignore layout managers. This is
bad advice. You will end up with non cross-platform compatible programs.

Thank you for advise. I guess my first step will be to check what the layout
manager is.

Since you asked about IDEs, Java's 3D capabilities are not a matter of
an IDE. They are a matter of which additional API you want to use.

You're right again, if I was unclear, my apologizes. Anyway, I've decided to
use Sun's Java SDK. Samples are really impressive.

The quality of your application/applet does not depend on your IDE. it
depends on your skills. The IDE is just a tool. There is no technical
limitation in the many JBuilder versions which would prevent you from
building a commercial program. There might be license restrictions in
the free version, which should not be in the commercial versions. Many,
many people have successfully released commercial programs build with
JBuilder.


The IDE question has been asked so often, why don't you just read an
archive of this group and try some? Since we don't know your individual
preferences and requirements, anyone giving you a name is just doing
some random guessing, anyway.

In principle, the Java 2 SDK from Sun, and a text editor is all you need
to do some development. It is inconvenient but not impossible.

Technically this is true, and also applies to Windows applications - you can
write whole thing in Notepad - but in my opinion you wouldn't achieve the
same quality if you were writing application using convenient, integrated
IDE, with help system. I see now I definitely was not enough clear when
asking my question. What I wanted to know was how painlessly jump into Java
development - following your thought - without using Java 2 SDK and Notepad.
After short research I decided to choose JBuilder as a very consistent and
convenient tool.

There is no such thing as "server-site applets" in Java. And again,
consider an application instead of an applet.

What about "servlets"? Aren't they server-side (my mistake: was "site",
should be "side") applets? I wanted to say by that I'm going to create
downloadable applets running within web browser.
And what is wrong with word "applet"? I'm not vicious, just curious, so if
you could explain it to me please, it would great.

My regards and thanks for reply.

 

[Thomas Weidenfeller]

Why not in an applet?

- Loading time, each time you start the applet. Especially if you have
to load an additional large 3D library over the net.

- I would bet a good 3D API has some native library, too. Try to get
that in place from an applet.

Also the usual problems with applets:

- Hassle with different browser versions and the plugin needs to be
installed

- Security restrictions unless you sign the applet

- The need to have to run a browser in order to start the applet

It just doesn't look to me like applets are an adequate technology for a
non-trivial 3D visualization tool.

/Thomas

 

[Gelmir Tinehtelë]

Why don't you try them out and make a decision on what YOU prefer.

It is not possible because of the lack of time. Unfortunately, I'm not doing
it just for fun.

Most have t his support, either natively or via plugins.

Thanks - with this knowledge I can start searching.

Why do you say that?

Right, after checking Borland's site JBuilder seems to be (or is) definitely
a powerful tool.


Thanks for reply - I was interested in Eclipse and JBuilder, but have chosen
JBuilder.

 

[Gelmir Tinehtelë]

[cut]

- The need to have to run a browser in order to start the applet

It just doesn't look to me like applets are an adequate technology for a
non-trivial 3D visualization tool.

It depends what you consider trivial. Sometimes 3D is required just for
rotating square with bars representing current values of something. I guess
porting Quake III Arena wouldn't be trivial, but in my case it is all just
about 3D charts.

 

[Andrew Thompson]

What about "servlets"? Aren't they server-side (my mistake: was "site",
should be "side") applets? I wanted to say by that I'm going to create
downloadable applets running within web browser.

Downloadable applets do not necessarily
require any 'server-side' help (beyond
the server specifying the .jnlp as the
correct mime-type)

Server-side help is only required for extra
functionality like obtaining filtered results
from a D/B based upon applet requests..

And what is wrong with word "applet"? I'm not vicious, just curious, so if
you could explain it to me please, it would great.

What Thomas wrote was of interest to me as well,
as I have always looked to '3D Applet' as the
ultimate test of whether it is practical to deploy
3D Java to the masses, but always had my doubts..

I have had considerable head-aches as a *developer*
to get any 3D stuff working at all, it does not
seem like something practicle for deploying via
the net generally, let alone in an applet.
[ ..looking forward to being proved wrong, though.. ]

 

[Bryce]

It is not possible because of the lack of time. Unfortunately, I'm not doing
it just for fun.

True, but you will never really know an IDE unless you try it out. I
think you could ask opinions about 5 different IDE's and find equal
number of people that like or dislike each one.

Right, after checking Borland's site JBuilder seems to be (or is) definitely
a powerful tool.

It is. I don't personally use it, prefering cheap/free IDEs.

 

[Aidan]

- Loading time, each time you start the applet. Especially if you have
to load an additional large 3D library over the net.

Applets can cache their program data just like a Webstart app can too.

- I would bet a good 3D API has some native library, too. Try to get
that in place from an applet.

I'd bet not. http://www4.alzado.net/edparticipar.html
Not exactly Quake III, but a 3D applet none the less.

Also the usual problems with applets:

- Hassle with different browser versions and the plugin needs to be
installed

The plugin works pretty well now on all the main browsers.

- Security restrictions unless you sign the applet

Don't Webstart apps run in some sort of sandbox also? I may be wrong,
since the last Webstart app I made was a few years ago.

- The need to have to run a browser in order to start the applet

It just doesn't look to me like applets are an adequate technology for a
non-trivial 3D visualization tool.

Fair enough, but it depends on the app. I do prefer Webstart myself for
most things.

Aidan