Which is easier to learn - .NET or J2EE?

Discussion in 'C++' started by Herman, May 19, 2004.

  1. Herman

    Herman Guest

    Hi everyone, I'm currently studying for my Master's in Computer
    Science, and I will be working on my thesis this summer. I've been
    thinking about constructing a web services application for my thesis,
    as I've been interested in this technology, and I haven't had a chance
    to work with it in my last job. The issue is what platform to use:
    ..NET or J2EE?

    Prior to starting my MSc course, I worked for a software developer for
    five years where I wrote Windows apps in Visual C++. However, during
    my MSc course (which lasts a year), we've been working in J2SE and
    nothing else (as far as programming languages go). So even though I
    have more experience in C++, Java is fresher in my mind right now.
    Since we're learning J2SE, I took a look at the J2EE 1.4 tutorial on
    Sun's web site, and it completely blew me away. It looks like
    something it would take years to master, (I only have three months to
    do this project) and it seems that you have to be an expert in J2SE
    before tackling J2EE.

    If I went with .NET, I already have experience with Microsoft
    development tools, so the learning curve might be quicker. But as my
    previous experience is in Visual C++ 6.0, .NET will be a whole new
    ballgame for me too. Oh, and I would have to shell out big money for
    the Visual Studio toolset. It would be at academic price, and I
    probably only need Visual C++ or C#, but it still costs money when the
    J2EE environment is free.

    What do you all think, given my past experience? I know there are
    some people who abhor anything Microsoft, but being that I've worked
    with early versions of the Visual Studio IDE, will .NET be a quick
    learning curve? Or is J2EE not as hard to learn as it seems? If
    anyone knows of any good tutorials on the internet, please point me in
    that direction.

    Also, since this is just for learning, the web services apps are not
    going to be very elaborate, as I'm wondering if I'm already biting off
    more than I can chew! However, I was wondering what people prefer
    between .NET and J2EE and why. No flame wars, please, although I feel
    that it's going to happen anyways.

    Thanks for your feedback!
    Herman
     
    Herman, May 19, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Herman

    Ryan Stewart Guest

    "Herman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi everyone, I'm currently studying for my Master's in Computer
    > Science, and I will be working on my thesis this summer. I've been
    > thinking about constructing a web services application for my thesis,
    > as I've been interested in this technology, and I haven't had a chance
    > to work with it in my last job. The issue is what platform to use:
    > .NET or J2EE?
    >

    *snip*

    I can't speak to .NET, and I have little real experience with anything
    C-related. I've been learning and working in Java for the past year. From
    this limited viewpoint, I would recommend Java because it seems to me more
    idiot-proof than C. It won't let you do anything too crazy. It will just
    calmly stop and tell you exactly what it doesn't like. It may not be quite
    as flexible as C, but you sound like you want a language that is more likely
    to guide you into what you should do than to crash with a sometimes cryptic
    error message. That would be Java in my experience. J2EE can seem
    overwhelming at first glance, but since you know J2SE already, if you hang
    around comp.lang.java.help and comp.lang.java.programmer (not
    comp.lang.java, it isn't technically supposed to exist) for a little while,
    you should be able to pick up on the basics pretty quickly. And if you're
    thinking Web Services, you can download JDeveloper, write a plain old J2SE
    program, and essentially click a button to make it a Web Service and deploy
    it for use. (I know that JDeveloper offers this functionality. I don't know
    about other IDE's.) Again, I know Java much better than C/C++ or anything
    ..NET, so I can't say that I'm seeing it all clearly.
     
    Ryan Stewart, May 20, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Herman wrote:
    It looks like
    > something it would take years to master, (I only have three months to
    > do this project) and it seems that you have to be an expert in J2SE
    > before tackling J2EE.
    >
    > If I went with .NET, I already have experience with Microsoft
    > development tools, so the learning curve might be quicker. But as my
    > previous experience is in Visual C++ 6.0, .NET will be a whole new
    > ballgame for me too.


    Bad news: Sorry to tell you that Microsoft totally (TOTALLY!) changed
    the development environment in the .Net version of VC. So your VC++ 6
    experience will not help a bit. I don't know J2EE, but I'll offer the
    opinion that you're not going to get very productive in either J2EE or
    ..Net in a 3 month project.

    --
    Scott McPhillips [VC++ MVP]
     
    Scott McPhillips [MVP], May 20, 2004
    #3
  4. (Herman) wrote in message news:<>...
    > Hi everyone, I'm currently studying for my Master's in Computer
    > Science, and I will be working on my thesis this summer. I've been
    > thinking about constructing a web services application for my thesis,
    > as I've been interested in this technology, and I haven't had a chance
    > to work with it in my last job. The issue is what platform to use:
    > .NET or J2EE?


    For web services I would recommend going the .NET way. In my opinion the
    web services platform is move evolved. Also, Visual Studio .NET has a
    really good IDE.

    Sandeep
    --
    http://www.EventHelix.com/EventStudio
    EventStudio 2.0 - Generate Sequence Diagrams and Use Case Diagrams in PDF
     
    EventHelix.com, May 20, 2004
    #4
  5. "Herman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi everyone, I'm currently studying for my Master's in Computer
    > Science, and I will be working on my thesis this summer. I've been
    > thinking about constructing a web services application for my thesis,
    > as I've been interested in this technology, and I haven't had a chance
    > to work with it in my last job. The issue is what platform to use:
    > .NET or J2EE?
    >
    > Prior to starting my MSc course, I worked for a software developer for
    > five years where I wrote Windows apps in Visual C++. However, during
    > my MSc course (which lasts a year), we've been working in J2SE and
    > nothing else (as far as programming languages go). So even though I
    > have more experience in C++, Java is fresher in my mind right now.
    > Since we're learning J2SE, I took a look at the J2EE 1.4 tutorial on
    > Sun's web site, and it completely blew me away. It looks like
    > something it would take years to master, (I only have three months to
    > do this project) and it seems that you have to be an expert in J2SE
    > before tackling J2EE.
    >
    > If I went with .NET, I already have experience with Microsoft
    > development tools, so the learning curve might be quicker. But as my
    > previous experience is in Visual C++ 6.0, .NET will be a whole new
    > ballgame for me too. Oh, and I would have to shell out big money for
    > the Visual Studio toolset. It would be at academic price, and I
    > probably only need Visual C++ or C#, but it still costs money when the
    > J2EE environment is free.
    >
    > What do you all think, given my past experience? I know there are
    > some people who abhor anything Microsoft, but being that I've worked
    > with early versions of the Visual Studio IDE, will .NET be a quick
    > learning curve? Or is J2EE not as hard to learn as it seems? If
    > anyone knows of any good tutorials on the internet, please point me in
    > that direction.
    >
    > Also, since this is just for learning, the web services apps are not
    > going to be very elaborate, as I'm wondering if I'm already biting off
    > more than I can chew! However, I was wondering what people prefer
    > between .NET and J2EE and why. No flame wars, please, although I feel
    > that it's going to happen anyways.
    >
    > Thanks for your feedback!
    > Herman

    Hi,
    what you are looking for is a middleware and a thin client(web browser
    based client). I would recommend from the long time point of view going with
    C++ and CORBA. for the client use anything you please, asp, jsp or a GUI
    based client developed wiht your c urrent vc wiht mfc knowledge.

    kutty
     
    Kutty Banerjee, May 20, 2004
    #5
  6. Herman

    Paul Schmidt Guest

    Herman wrote:
    > Hi everyone, I'm currently studying for my Master's in Computer
    > Science, and I will be working on my thesis this summer. I've been
    > thinking about constructing a web services application for my thesis,
    > as I've been interested in this technology, and I haven't had a chance
    > to work with it in my last job. The issue is what platform to use:
    > .NET or J2EE?


    Your asking the wrong question, if you have a BCS you should know this
    already. Which platform fits better for what YOU want to do, in the
    constraints you have to live with. Don't say they are equal, because
    they are not.

    Some questions to ask yourself (you should know this already)

    * What is the executing platform?
    * How much do you need to master in order to do what you want to do?
    * How far can you slide the time schedule?
    * Which technology is going to be more useful after you graduate?
    * Is this really what you want to do a thesis on?

    Lets look at those a little closer, spending 2.9 months working on .Net
    only to find out the thing will run on a platform which doesn't have
    ..Net isn't going to help. J2EE is more platform agnostic.

    For a small project, you might not need to learn all that much, for a
    large project, the learning curve may not fit in the time constraints.
    you have available.

    Since you ony have 3 months, you don't have a lot of schedule room.

    ..Net is dependant on Microsoft, so what if something happens to
    Microsoft, then again J2EE is dependant on Sun.

    > Also, since this is just for learning, the web services apps are not
    > going to be very elaborate, as I'm wondering if I'm already biting off
    > more than I can chew! However, I was wondering what people prefer
    > between .NET and J2EE and why. No flame wars, please, although I feel
    > that it's going to happen anyways.


    There are other choices too though, Zope which uses Python and good old
    fashioned Perl and a text editor also work as web development
    environments.

    Paul
     
    Paul Schmidt, May 20, 2004
    #6
  7. Herman

    Mark Guest

    "Scott McPhillips [MVP]" <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > Herman wrote:
    > It looks like
    > > something it would take years to master, (I only have three months to
    > > do this project) and it seems that you have to be an expert in J2SE
    > > before tackling J2EE.
    > >
    > > If I went with .NET, I already have experience with Microsoft
    > > development tools, so the learning curve might be quicker. But as my
    > > previous experience is in Visual C++ 6.0, .NET will be a whole new
    > > ballgame for me too.

    >
    > Bad news: Sorry to tell you that Microsoft totally (TOTALLY!) changed
    > the development environment in the .Net version of VC. So your VC++ 6
    > experience will not help a bit. I don't know J2EE, but I'll offer the
    > opinion that you're not going to get very productive in either J2EE or
    > .Net in a 3 month project.



    Might consider an evaluation or academic verison of BEA Weblogic.
    They have some very clear examples of webservices and their tools are
    fairly straight forward. Disclaimer: I know squat about .NET
     
    Mark, May 20, 2004
    #7
  8. Herman

    JKop Guest

    Herman posted:

    > Hi everyone, I'm currently studying for my Master's in Computer
    > Science, and I will be working on my thesis this summer. I've been
    > thinking about constructing a web services application for my thesis,
    > as I've been interested in this technology, and I haven't had a chance
    > to work with it in my last job. The issue is what platform to use:
    > .NET or J2EE?



    They're both abismal. I find it a joke that they can call it a "Master's"
    when you're writing the program in the likes of .NET and J2EE.


    -JKop
     
    JKop, May 20, 2004
    #8
  9. Herman

    Jorge Rivera Guest

    >The issue is what platform to use:
    > .NET or J2EE?


    Student=broke="free tools"=Java.

    You can develop web services using gSoap for C++.

    I have read some of the postings regarding difficulty, and I completely
    disagree.

    You can pick up Java and NetBeans from Sun, install, and start creating
    simple web services in no-time.

    ..NET and J2EE share some of the same porblems and virtues, it's just
    that Java is free, .NEt is not.

    > Prior to starting my MSc course, I worked for a software developer for
    > five years where I wrote Windows apps in Visual C++. However, during
    > my MSc course (which lasts a year), we've been working in J2SE and
    > nothing else (as far as programming languages go). So even though I
    > have more experience in C++, Java is fresher in my mind right now.
    > Since we're learning J2SE, I took a look at the J2EE 1.4 tutorial on
    > Sun's web site, and it completely blew me away. It looks like
    > something it would take years to master, (I only have three months to
    > do this project) and it seems that you have to be an expert in J2SE
    > before tackling J2EE.
    >

    Just install the tools, run a web service example, or run one of the web
    service project templates, and you will learn what really matters....

    > If I went with .NET, I already have experience with Microsoft
    > development tools, so the learning curve might be quicker. But as my
    > previous experience is in Visual C++ 6.0, .NET will be a whole new
    > ballgame for me too. Oh, and I would have to shell out big money for
    > the Visual Studio toolset. It would be at academic price, and I
    > probably only need Visual C++ or C#, but it still costs money when the
    > J2EE environment is free.
    >

    BTW, .NET is not any easire to learn than Java...

    > No flame wars, please, although I feel
    > that it's going to happen anyways.
    >

    Bring up a topic about two languages unrelated to C++ in a C++ newsgroup
    is not the greatest of ideas to avoid this...

    JLR
     
    Jorge Rivera, May 21, 2004
    #9
  10. Herman

    Richard Guest

    wrote...
    > Herman posted:
    >
    > > Hi everyone, I'm currently studying for my Master's in Computer
    > > Science, and I will be working on my thesis this summer. I've been
    > > thinking about constructing a web services application for my thesis,
    > > as I've been interested in this technology, and I haven't had a chance
    > > to work with it in my last job. The issue is what platform to use:
    > > .NET or J2EE?

    >
    > They're both abismal. I find it a joke that they can call it a "Master's"
    > when you're writing the program in the likes of .NET and J2EE.


    Maybe it's a Mastercard Masters -- ie, night school. Nothing wrong
    with it, but...well, don't ask 'em what a Turing machine is.

    --
    Don't believe anything unless you have thought it through for
    yourself. (Anna Pell Wheeler, 1883-1966)
     
    Richard, May 21, 2004
    #10
  11. Herman

    Wayne Scott Guest

    (Herman) wrote in message news:<>...
    > Hi everyone, I'm currently studying for my Master's in Computer
    > Science, and I will be working on my thesis this summer. I've been
    > thinking about constructing a web services application for my thesis,
    > as I've been interested in this technology, and I haven't had a chance
    > to work with it in my last job. The issue is what platform to use:
    > .NET or J2EE?
    >
    > Prior to starting my MSc course, I worked for a software developer for
    > five years where I wrote Windows apps in Visual C++. However, during
    > my MSc course (which lasts a year), we've been working in J2SE and
    > nothing else (as far as programming languages go). So even though I
    > have more experience in C++, Java is fresher in my mind right now.
    > Since we're learning J2SE, I took a look at the J2EE 1.4 tutorial on
    > Sun's web site, and it completely blew me away. It looks like
    > something it would take years to master, (I only have three months to
    > do this project) and it seems that you have to be an expert in J2SE
    > before tackling J2EE.
    >
    > If I went with .NET, I already have experience with Microsoft
    > development tools, so the learning curve might be quicker. But as my
    > previous experience is in Visual C++ 6.0, .NET will be a whole new
    > ballgame for me too. Oh, and I would have to shell out big money for
    > the Visual Studio toolset. It would be at academic price, and I
    > probably only need Visual C++ or C#, but it still costs money when the
    > J2EE environment is free.
    >
    > What do you all think, given my past experience? I know there are
    > some people who abhor anything Microsoft, but being that I've worked
    > with early versions of the Visual Studio IDE, will .NET be a quick
    > learning curve? Or is J2EE not as hard to learn as it seems? If
    > anyone knows of any good tutorials on the internet, please point me in
    > that direction.
    >
    > Also, since this is just for learning, the web services apps are not
    > going to be very elaborate, as I'm wondering if I'm already biting off
    > more than I can chew! However, I was wondering what people prefer
    > between .NET and J2EE and why. No flame wars, please, although I feel
    > that it's going to happen anyways.
    >
    > Thanks for your feedback!
    > Herman



    You can BEA WebLogic Platform 8.1 and get a 1-year developer license
    free

    http://dev2dev.bea.com/index.jsp

    The develop community and news groups are great for support

    http://www.bea.com/framework.jsp?CNT=newsgroup.htm&FP=/content/services/customer_support


    A primary goal of the 8.1 platform is to make development easier with
    visual tools and code generation. Check out the evaluation guide.

    Best Wishes,
    Wayne Scott
     
    Wayne Scott, May 21, 2004
    #11
  12. Herman

    Nunya Guest

    Common misconception about .NET.
    Actually, .NET Framework SDK is free, and provides everything you need to
    develop .NET applications (as long as you are willing to use the same IDE
    that comes with JAVA -- command line :):
    http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...A6-3647-4070-9F41-A333C6B9181D&displaylang=en
    SharpDevelop is an open source C# IDE:
    http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/Tour/094/default.aspx


    "Jorge Rivera" <> wrote in message
    news:t7brc.297172$...
    > >The issue is what platform to use:
    > > .NET or J2EE?

    >
    > Student=broke="free tools"=Java.
    >
    > You can develop web services using gSoap for C++.
    >
    > I have read some of the postings regarding difficulty, and I completely
    > disagree.
    >
    > You can pick up Java and NetBeans from Sun, install, and start creating
    > simple web services in no-time.
    >
    > .NET and J2EE share some of the same porblems and virtues, it's just
    > that Java is free, .NEt is not.
    >
    > > Prior to starting my MSc course, I worked for a software developer for
    > > five years where I wrote Windows apps in Visual C++. However, during
    > > my MSc course (which lasts a year), we've been working in J2SE and
    > > nothing else (as far as programming languages go). So even though I
    > > have more experience in C++, Java is fresher in my mind right now.
    > > Since we're learning J2SE, I took a look at the J2EE 1.4 tutorial on
    > > Sun's web site, and it completely blew me away. It looks like
    > > something it would take years to master, (I only have three months to
    > > do this project) and it seems that you have to be an expert in J2SE
    > > before tackling J2EE.
    > >

    > Just install the tools, run a web service example, or run one of the web
    > service project templates, and you will learn what really matters....
    >
    > > If I went with .NET, I already have experience with Microsoft
    > > development tools, so the learning curve might be quicker. But as my
    > > previous experience is in Visual C++ 6.0, .NET will be a whole new
    > > ballgame for me too. Oh, and I would have to shell out big money for
    > > the Visual Studio toolset. It would be at academic price, and I
    > > probably only need Visual C++ or C#, but it still costs money when the
    > > J2EE environment is free.
    > >

    > BTW, .NET is not any easire to learn than Java...
    >
    > > No flame wars, please, although I feel
    > > that it's going to happen anyways.
    > >

    > Bring up a topic about two languages unrelated to C++ in a C++ newsgroup
    > is not the greatest of ideas to avoid this...
    >
    > JLR
     
    Nunya, May 21, 2004
    #12
  13. Herman

    Jorge Rivera Guest

    Nunya wrote:
    > Common misconception about .NET.
    > Actually, .NET Framework SDK is free, and provides everything you need to
    > develop .NET applications (as long as you are willing to use the same IDE
    > that comes with JAVA -- command line :):
    > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...A6-3647-4070-9F41-A333C6B9181D&displaylang=en
    > SharpDevelop is an open source C# IDE:
    > http://www.icsharpcode.net/OpenSource/SD/Tour/094/default.aspx
    >
    >


    True, .NEt is free, but as you well mention, the tools are not. They
    are very expensive, compare with the Java SDK/NetBeans combo (free) or
    many of the free (can I mention multiplatform too?) IDEs.

    BTW, in my opinion, .NET without the IDE is fairly mediocre...

    JLR
     
    Jorge Rivera, May 21, 2004
    #13
  14. Herman

    Herman Guest

    Richard <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > wrote...
    > > Herman posted:
    > >
    > > > Hi everyone, I'm currently studying for my Master's in Computer
    > > > Science, and I will be working on my thesis this summer. I've been
    > > > thinking about constructing a web services application for my thesis,
    > > > as I've been interested in this technology, and I haven't had a chance
    > > > to work with it in my last job. The issue is what platform to use:
    > > > .NET or J2EE?

    > >
    > > They're both abismal. I find it a joke that they can call it a "Master's"
    > > when you're writing the program in the likes of .NET and J2EE.

    >
    > Maybe it's a Mastercard Masters -- ie, night school. Nothing wrong
    > with it, but...well, don't ask 'em what a Turing machine is.


    It's not a night school, it's one of the more prestigious universities
    in the UK. But it's a "conversion" master's course, that is, it's
    intended for those people who don't have a Bachelor's in CS, which I
    don't. I started working in IT after college, and did this course to
    further my knowledge.

    BTW, a Turing machine is the machine described in a paper by Alan
    Turing in 1936. It moves from one state to another using a finite set
    of rules, and is generally considered to be the foundation of modern
    computing. (as we learned in our computing environments module)

    Also, if .NET and J2EE are abysmal, what other alternatives do you
    recommend?
     
    Herman, May 22, 2004
    #14
  15. Herman

    Herman Guest

    Paul Schmidt <> wrote in message news:<kZ5rc.69847$>...
    > Herman wrote:
    >
    > Your asking the wrong question, if you have a BCS you should know this
    > already. Which platform fits better for what YOU want to do, in the
    > constraints you have to live with. Don't say they are equal, because
    > they are not.
    >
    > Some questions to ask yourself (you should know this already)
    >
    > * What is the executing platform?
    > * How much do you need to master in order to do what you want to do?
    > * How far can you slide the time schedule?
    > * Which technology is going to be more useful after you graduate?
    > * Is this really what you want to do a thesis on?


    I may be revamping a friend's online store to add a lot more
    automating functionality, as right now everything on his store is
    manually operated. But he is thinking of running everything off
    Windows servers, and the clients will be web browsers.

    He was talking about adding a whole slew of functionality to the site,
    like what Amazon does, but for time constraints I'll probably going to
    have to pick and choose what to implement given the deadline (which I
    cannot slide back, since it's academic) I keep on seeing a lot of
    want ads for J2EE, which is why I thought about doing a thesis on it,
    since they haven't taught it to us yet, just J2SE (I'm in a
    "conversion" Master's course, which is intended for people who do not
    have Bachelor's in CS).
     
    Herman, May 22, 2004
    #15
  16. Herman

    Frank Looper Guest

    [OT] Re: Which is easier to learn - .NET or J2EE?

    > > > They're both abismal. I find it a joke that they can call it a
    "Master's"
    > > > when you're writing the program in the likes of .NET and J2EE.


    You should expect that reaction in a C/C++ group. YMMV. (headers trimmed for
    followups in comp.lang.c++ only)

    > BTW, a Turing machine is the machine described in a paper by Alan
    > Turing in 1936. It moves from one state to another using a finite set
    > of rules, and is generally considered to be the foundation of modern
    > computing. (as we learned in our computing environments module)


    See also: Turing test, a highly entertaining read.

    > Also, if .NET and J2EE are abysmal, what other alternatives do you
    > recommend?


    Again, you're in a C/C++ group. If Java works for you, use it. I don't
    like it, but you might. Then again, I'm a C++ beginner, so my opinion is
    less valid than others' might be.
    DOTNET isn't really so awful, just closed and proprietary. VB.NET is
    actually an improvement on earlier versions, and is becoming a lot more
    stable as it seems that large apps crash less *for*me* than with VB 6, and
    they're able to use objects natively with the common runtime. I've only just
    started a few months ago moving from VB6 to VB DOTNET, so again, it's not an
    extremely experienced opinion.
     
    Frank Looper, May 22, 2004
    #16
  17. Herman

    Mark Shaw Guest

    "Herman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > What do you all think, given my past experience? I know there are
    > some people who abhor anything Microsoft, but being that I've worked
    > with early versions of the Visual Studio IDE, will .NET be a quick
    > learning curve? Or is J2EE not as hard to learn as it seems? If
    > anyone knows of any good tutorials on the internet, please point me in
    > that direction.


    Forget about which is easier to learn. You dont really have time to properly
    learn either of them in the timeframe given.
    Concentrate on your project's specification and design. Not sure about
    masters courses, but for the BSc courses, not a great lot of marks went
    towards implementation.

    Think about what you want to do in the future. If you opt for a J2EE
    implementation, you'll find it easier to apply for J2EE jobs in the future;
    and vice versa. Your choice may have more of an impact than just a 3 month
    implementation. Would you really want to settle for trying to learn the
    easier language if that's not what you want in the future?

    Does your college/uni have an educational license of Visual Studio .NET? You
    may not have to fork out big bucks after all, even for your own educational
    license.

    I'll let the others rant on about the technicalities of the J2EE/.NET
    decision, but IMHO an easy-to-use IDE is a great benefit when starting off
    in something new. If it were my choice, I'd go for .NET.

    Btw, which uni are you at? Queens in Belfast is gearing pretty much everying
    towards J2SE these days. Not sure if they cover J2EE.

    HTH,
    Mark.
     
    Mark Shaw, May 27, 2004
    #17
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