Whither JDK 7?

C

ClassCastException

Is JDK 7 really on the way, or is it just another Duke Nukem Forever or
Half-Life 3 -- that is to say, vaporware?

Because I swear it's been like *years* since I first heard mention of it
and JDK 6 still seems to be current.
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

Is JDK 7 really on the way, or is it just another Duke Nukem Forever or
Half-Life 3 -- that is to say, vaporware?

Because I swear it's been like *years* since I first heard mention of it
and JDK 6 still seems to be current.

It has been a long time underway.

But people are working on it.

And eventually it will come out.

Lot of people are unhappy with the speed, but ...

Anyway - Java is so mature so there are very few must haves
missing and for each nice to have there are 7 different
opinions on how to implement.

Arne
 
C

ClassCastException

It has been a long time underway.

But people are working on it.

And eventually it will come out.

Lot of people are unhappy with the speed, but ...

Anyway - Java is so mature so there are very few must haves missing and
for each nice to have there are 7 different opinions on how to
implement.

Oh, lovely, so it will be another six months to six years in coming and,
when (if) it finally does show up, it will have "designed by committee"
written all over it?

Maybe it's best to just stick with JDK 6 then. :)
 
A

Arved Sandstrom

ClassCastException said:
Oh, lovely, so it will be another six months to six years in coming and,
when (if) it finally does show up, it will have "designed by committee"
written all over it?

Maybe it's best to just stick with JDK 6 then. :)

Even better, continue working with JDK 6, and if you're a
dyed-in-the-wool JVM person, expand your programming horizons with Scala
or Clojure. For example, if you're working with J2EE on Weblogic, but
see a problem that is really better addressed using functional code,
write that portion using Scala, for example.

AHS
 
J

John B. Matthews

ClassCastException said:
Oh, lovely, so it will be another six months to six years in coming
and, when (if) it finally does show up, it will have "designed by
committee" written all over it?

Maybe it's best to just stick with JDK 6 then. :)

There is some evidence that the Java tutorial is being updated,
_pari_passu_:

<http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.java.advocacy/browse_frm/thread/7820aeedbd3ed37d>

And the milestones cited there have been updated since:

<http://openjdk.java.net/projects/jdk7/milestones/>
 
A

Arne Vajhøj

Oh, lovely, so it will be another six months to six years in coming and,
when (if) it finally does show up, it will have "designed by committee"
written all over it?

I would expect 6-12 months.

An JCP is a committee.
Maybe it's best to just stick with JDK 6 then. :)

Unless you like beta, then you have to.

Arne
 
R

Roedy Green

Because I swear it's been like *years* since I first heard mention of it
and JDK 6 still seems to be current.

two things have happened that would cause delay.

1. recession and drying up of Sun's cash.

2. buying by Oracle that is much more focused on making immediate
money.
--
Roedy Green Canadian Mind Products
http://mindprod.com

Beauty is our business.
~ Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (born: 1930-05-11 died: 2002-08-06 at age: 72)

Referring to computer science.
 
C

ClassCastException

Even better, continue working with JDK 6, and if you're a
dyed-in-the-wool JVM person, expand your programming horizons with Scala
or Clojure.

(defn drop-bombshell []
(.println System/out "I already know Clojure, actually."))

Yeah, I was a scout once, and still stick to that whole "be prepared"
thing. :)

Clojure comes in handy when you don't need seriously blazing speed and
the problem lends itself to a functional style.

Actually what Java really needs for speed these days is an API that lets
you do arbitrary SIMD math on the machine's GPU. That seems to be where
all the really sneaky optimizations are in rendering/number crunching
these days, ones that JIT won't get you, and pretty much everything else
you want to do is I/O bound.

Actually, the other thing we really need is OS/JVM integration so the JVM
heap plays nicer with paging and multitasking. I foresee a day when
there's a small kernel written in C that bootstraps and provides the main
API services for a JVM or similar VM, and all user-mode applications run
in the VM. If the VM is stable enough, they can't crash it, just catch
unhandled exceptions. The JVM's security features make it almost ideal
for something like this, combined with its maturity and JIT. It seems bad
for multiuser systems because one common heap would impede the ability to
set per-user quotas and the like, BUT this is easily solved by having
separate VM instances per user, with appropriate heap size limits and
appropriate limits on CPU hogging enforced by a minimalist scheduler in
the C kernel. But it'll probably be a while before we see this style of
OS; and a major competing possibility is for the OS to merge with the
browser instead and browser-based apps to take over. But then the browser
becomes a kind of VM, doesn't it...
 
C

ClassCastException

Even better, continue working with JDK 6, and if you're a
dyed-in-the-wool JVM person, expand your programming horizons with Scala
or Clojure.

(defn drop-bombshell []
(.println System/out "I already know Clojure, actually."))

Yeah, I was a scout once, and still stick to that whole "be prepared"
thing. :)

Clojure comes in handy when you don't need seriously blazing speed and
the problem lends itself to a functional style.

Actually what Java really needs for speed these days is an API that lets
you do arbitrary SIMD math on the machine's GPU. That seems to be where
all the really sneaky optimizations are in rendering/number crunching
these days, ones that JIT won't get you, and pretty much everything else
you want to do is I/O bound.

Actually, the other thing we really need is OS/JVM integration so the JVM
heap plays nicer with paging and multitasking. I foresee a day when
there's a small kernel written in C that bootstraps and provides the main
API services for a JVM or similar VM, and all user-mode applications run
in the VM. If the VM is stable enough, they can't crash it, just catch
unhandled exceptions. The JVM's security features make it almost ideal
for something like this, combined with its maturity and JIT. It seems bad
for multiuser systems because one common heap would impede the ability to
set per-user quotas and the like, BUT this is easily solved by having
separate VM instances per user, with appropriate heap size limits and
appropriate limits on CPU hogging enforced by a minimalist scheduler in
the C kernel. But it'll probably be a while before we see this style of
OS; and a major competing possibility is for the OS to merge with the
browser instead and browser-based apps to take over. But then the browser
becomes a kind of VM, doesn't it...
 
C

ClassCastException

Even better, continue working with JDK 6, and if you're a
dyed-in-the-wool JVM person, expand your programming horizons with Scala
or Clojure.

(defn drop-bombshell []
(.println System/out "I already know Clojure, actually."))

Yeah, I was a scout once, and still stick to that whole "be prepared"
thing. :)

Clojure comes in handy when you don't need seriously blazing speed and
the problem lends itself to a functional style.

Actually what Java really needs for speed these days is an API that lets
you do arbitrary SIMD math on the machine's GPU. That seems to be where
all the really sneaky optimizations are in rendering/number crunching
these days, ones that JIT won't get you, and pretty much everything else
you want to do is I/O bound.

Actually, the other thing we really need is OS/JVM integration so the JVM
heap plays nicer with paging and multitasking. I foresee a day when
there's a small kernel written in C that bootstraps and provides the main
API services for a JVM or similar VM, and all user-mode applications run
in the VM. If the VM is stable enough, they can't crash it, just catch
unhandled exceptions. The JVM's security features make it almost ideal
for something like this, combined with its maturity and JIT. It seems bad
for multiuser systems because one common heap would impede the ability to
set per-user quotas and the like, BUT this is easily solved by having
separate VM instances per user, with appropriate heap size limits and
appropriate limits on CPU hogging enforced by a minimalist scheduler in
the C kernel. But it'll probably be a while before we see this style of
OS; and a major competing possibility is for the OS to merge with the
browser instead and browser-based apps to take over. But then the browser
becomes a kind of VM, doesn't it...
 
C

ClassCastException

On Fri, 28 May 2010 01:33:54 +0000, ClassCastException wrote:
[snip]

OK, what the HELL is going on? I submitted that post *once* and slrn
simply seemed to freeze. When after about five minutes it hadn't
apparently done anything I aborted the process and reran it and found
three copies of the post had been sent!

Never had THAT happen before.

Sorry for the triplicate posting. But until I have a clue what happened I
can't guarantee it won't happen again.
 
N

Nebulous

Even better, continue working with JDK 6, and if you're a
dyed-in-the-wool JVM person, expand your programming horizons with Scala
or Clojure.

(defn drop-bombshell []
  (.println System/out "I already know Clojure, actually."))

Euwwww. Lisp!
 
C

ClassCastException

Even better, continue working with JDK 6, and if you're a
dyed-in-the-wool JVM person, expand your programming horizons with
Scala or Clojure.

(defn drop-bombshell []
  (.println System/out "I already know Clojure, actually."))

Euwwww. Lisp!

Well, speak of the devil and look who appears.

It was what, less than a week ago that I mentioned you offhand (and
without insulting you) in another thread? What do you do, regularly
google your own name or something?

What's your objection to Lisp anyway, prefix notation? Parentheses
everywhere? (Those are the usual suspects.)
 
A

Alessio Stalla

Even better, continue working with JDK 6, and if you're a
dyed-in-the-wool JVM person, expand your programming horizons with Scala
or Clojure. For example, if you're working with J2EE on Weblogic, but
see a problem that is really better addressed using functional code,
write that portion using Scala, for example.

JDK 7, among other things, is supposed to provide features that should
benefit functional and dynamic languages, so Scala and Clojure could
theoretically take advantage of JDK 7, too.

With the JDK open sourced, nothing stops you from downloading it and
trying the new features, and complain with the committee who's
designing them ;)

-- Alessio
 
N

Nebulous

On Wed, 26 May 2010 09:35:13 +0000, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
Even better, continue working with JDK 6, and if you're a
dyed-in-the-wool JVM person, expand your programming horizons with
Scala or Clojure.
(defn drop-bombshell []
  (.println System/out "I already know Clojure, actually."))
Euwwww. Lisp!

Well, speak of the [insult deleted] and look who appears.

No, you're the devil.

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.
It was what, less than a week ago that I mentioned you offhand (and
without insulting you) in another thread? What do you do, regularly
google your own name or something?

Weekly.

And if there's an active thread somewhere I may check that thread more
frequently.
What's your objection to Lisp anyway, prefix notation? Parentheses
everywhere?

Macros.
 
M

Mike Schilling

Nebulous said:
On May 27, 9:33 pm, ClassCastException <[email protected]>
wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2010 09:35:13 +0000, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
Even better, continue working with JDK 6, and if you're a
dyed-in-the-wool JVM person, expand your programming horizons with
Scala or Clojure.
(defn drop-bombshell []
(.println System/out "I already know Clojure, actually."))
Euwwww. Lisp!

Well, speak of the [insult deleted] and look who appears.

No, you're the devil.

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.
It was what, less than a week ago that I mentioned you offhand (and
without insulting you) in another thread? What do you do, regularly
google your own name or something?

Weekly.

And if there's an active thread somewhere I may check that thread more
frequently.
What's your objection to Lisp anyway, prefix notation? Parentheses
everywhere?

Macros.

He was an SOB. It was a great day for the Philippines when Corazon Aquino
replaced him. I didn't know he was a LISP programmer too.
 
T

Tom Anderson

Nebulous said:
33 pm, ClassCastException <[email protected]>
wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2010 09:35:13 +0000, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
Even better, continue working with JDK 6, and if you're a
dyed-in-the-wool JVM person, expand your programming horizons with
Scala or Clojure.

(defn drop-bombshell []
(.println System/out "I already know Clojure, actually."))

Euwwww. Lisp!

Well, speak of the [insult deleted] and look who appears.

No, you're the devil.

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.
It was what, less than a week ago that I mentioned you offhand (and
without insulting you) in another thread? What do you do, regularly
google your own name or something?

Weekly.

And if there's an active thread somewhere I may check that thread more
frequently.
What's your objection to Lisp anyway, prefix notation? Parentheses
everywhere?

Macros.

He was an SOB. It was a great day for the Philippines when Corazon Aquino
replaced him. I didn't know he was a LISP programmer too.

I don't know about any of that, but it was certainly loads better than
Robotech.

tom
 
J

John B. Matthews

Tom Anderson said:
Nebulous said:
On Jun 2, 4:22 pm, ClassCastException <[email protected]>
wrote:
33 pm, ClassCastException <[email protected]>
wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2010 09:35:13 +0000, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
Even better, continue working with JDK 6, and if you're a
dyed-in-the-wool JVM person, expand your programming
horizons with Scala or Clojure.

(defn drop-bombshell []
(.println System/out "I already know Clojure, actually."))

Euwwww. Lisp!

Well, speak of the [insult deleted] and look who appears.

No, you're the devil.

None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me
are at all true.

It was what, less than a week ago that I mentioned you offhand
(and without insulting you) in another thread? What do you do,
regularly google your own name or something?

Weekly.

And if there's an active thread somewhere I may check that thread
more frequently.

What's your objection to Lisp anyway, prefix notation?
Parentheses everywhere?

Macros.

He was an SOB. It was a great day for the Philippines when Corazon
Aquino replaced him. I didn't know he was a LISP programmer too.

I don't know about any of that, but it was certainly loads better
than Robotech.

He was really mean to Demetrius and the gladiators, too.
 
C

ClassCastException

On May 27, 9:33 pm, ClassCastException <[email protected]>
wrote:
On Wed, 26 May 2010 09:35:13 +0000, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
Even better, continue working with JDK 6, and if you're a
dyed-in-the-wool JVM person, expand your programming horizons with
Scala or Clojure.
(defn drop-bombshell []
  (.println System/out "I already know Clojure, actually."))
Euwwww. Lisp!

Well, speak of the [insult deleted] and look who appears.

No, you're the devil.

I've been called a lot of things in my time, especially on usenet, but
that's a new one on me.

At least, I think it is.
None of the nasty things that you have said or implied about me are at
all true.

Ah, the more things change, the more they stay the same.
Weekly.

And if there's an active thread somewhere I may check that thread more
frequently.

And in this case you saw your name being mentioned, didn't find any
actual insulting of you going on there, so checked *other* recent posts
by the same person in the hopes of finding something you considered to be
objectionable? Or it just got you reading the newsgroup again, and sure
enough sooner or later someone said something that pushed one of your
buttons?

With great danger comes great power. With ASTs, anyway. C's broken macros
of course can't do squat because they operate at the token level, without
lessening the danger any. Sledgehammer vs. scalpel, perhaps.
 

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